Talk:ArmaLite AR-18

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Untitled
Untitled== Why was my "In Poular Culture" section deleted? This is not a very common firearm, and the first Terminator movie is a prominent usage of the gun. --DOHC Holiday 22:08, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I disagree. In the film, it's not a 'featured' weapon.  That is, unlike the Walther PPK or S&W model 29 44 Magnum, the AR-18 is used as a generic assault rifle. Gun nuts can spot it, of course, but we can also spot the Thompson SMG under the 'pulse rifles' in Aliens, can't we. The bar has and should be set fairly high for inclusion. You'd have to use the 'man on the street' test.  Walk up to a man (or woman) on the street and ask them what kind of gun Dirty Harry carried?  Now ask them what kind of gun the Terminator carried.  You'll have your answer soon enough. Take this to the pop culture discussion here: WikiProject_Military_history --Asams10 00:04, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

An encyclopedia written to 'man on the street' standards isn't going to be very informative. And how is the man on the street ever going to learn what gun the Terminator carried if it isn't part of the article? --DOHC Holiday 07:44, 8 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Who cares if the AR-18 is "featured" or not? Personally, I'm sick of people deleting the popular culture sections on firearms pages because popular culture is part of the weapons' appeal to many people.  I'm putting the section back.
 * And it'll get taken out QUICKLY. Your decision is arbitrary, there is a concensus you weren't a part of, aparently, that fictional trivia in articles is unencyclopedic unless that fiction has an effect on the weapon itself that is culturally significant. Mention it in the movie article but keep it out of the gun article.--Asams10 11:38, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, I fixed up some grammar. Now that I'm reading it again, there're still some commas and things that need cleaning. I don't want to clutter the history with small edits, but I might just do another.

Texas William 02:29, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

When the prase "to prevent fouling" is used, is this a reference to biofouling?--216.45.152.15 23:00, 10 March 2006 (UTC)


 * No. It refers to residue from burnt gunpowder.  --D.E. Watters 01:01, 11 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Fouling, when applied to firearms, also refers to metalic buildup due to friction, abrasion, and ablation due to the high temperatures and pressures involved in firing the cartridge in addition to gunpowder residue.--Asams10 02:04, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

So far I've never had biological entities and microorganisms build-up in the gas systems of my rifles... :D Koalorka (talk) 18:56, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

IRA?
Which delinquent has listed the IRA as being part of the Irish military? The IRA are a now defunct terrorist organisation and I'm going to edit their mention on this page to something that Irish people may find less offensive. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.10.97.187 (talk) 00:51, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Irish people are not offended by the military organisation, (the Provisonal Irish Republican Army), that brought about civil rights for the oppressed and working class irishmen and women, from the British oppressor, and has fought for them for nearly a centuary. On the contrary, in rural and working class area's, the IRA volunteers are held in high regard. And in modern European history they made the AR-18, "the armalite", recognisible to more people. Therefore their mention, and description are required and accurate. - FBC —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.131.175.71 (talk) 20:18, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

It's factually incorrect, the IRA are not a part of the Irish military, that's the point being made. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.40.15.114 (talk) 19:03, 22 December 2009 (UTC)


 * But why did the IRA use this gun???--Jack Upland (talk) 21:55, 20 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Because at the time it was relatively easy to acquire and smuggle them into NI. Nick Cooper (talk) 13:54, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

History and Background
I have put some headings into the article as suggested, but in the process of doing so I feel that the extensive history on this page about the US trials for the M14/T44, and the AR-10/AR-15/M16 stories etc are peripheral to the AR-18 story and could be shortened considerably, with links provided to pages where these things are more properly detailed (e.g. the M-16 page). I am not saying all this stuff is irrelevant, (though some bits are more relevant than others) but it is peripheral to the AR-18 page, and should be abbreviated. Any thoughts?

I found a test on the AR-180B which details the changes made from the original AR-18/180 and has some good pictures. I have added it to references (the only reference on the page so far!). Strangways (talk) 03:34, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

I've simplified the background somewhat and pointed to some pages which tell the full story of the M16's adoption, trials etc. Some references have been added, but I'm looking for more! Strangways (talk) 19:26, 9 September 2009 (UTC)


 * FWIW: Project SALVO started years before the adoption of the M14 in 1957.  Dr. Ezell wrote that it started November 1952.  The AR-15 was technically not part of the Project SALVO experiments, but a separate initiative by CONARC.  --D.E. Watters (talk) 22:03, 9 September 2009 (UTC)


 * My source for both these points was Hatcher's Notebook, 1962 edition p351. He says "Under the direction of CONARC two high-powered .22 caliber centrefire rifles were designed for test in connection with this program [SALVO]". But you could well be right. His text differs from your points only slightly except that it clearly infers that SALVO was instituted after the adoption of the M14. But he could be wrong. Strangways (talk) 15:24, 12 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Given that General Hatcher retired in 1946, I think we can forgive him for not knowing all of the details of the experimental programs that came after his departure. The AR-15 was never tested as part of the formal SALVO trials sponsored by the ORO.  The SALVO I Field Experiment was held in June-July, 1956, and the SALVO II Field Experiment was held in December 1957.  The only weapons tested were M1 rifles, modified M1 rifles (.22-06 simplex and duplex, and .30-06 duplex and triplex), modified M2 carbines (.22 Gustafson), modified T48 rifles (.22 Homologous), and Remington 11-48 shotguns (12 gauge flechette).  One of my sources is "The SPIW: The Deadliest Weapon that Never Was" by R. Blake Stevens and Dr. Edward C. Ezell.  --D.E. Watters (talk) 22:59, 12 September 2009 (UTC)


 * In addition, work on the AR-16 began long before the AR-15 was ever adopted for US military service. Its development was spurred by Fairchild's licensing of the AR-10 and AR-15 designs to Colt.  Work on the AR-18 began in 1963 around the time the US Secretary of Defense forced the US Army to adopt the AR-15 for limited service in Special Forces and Airborne units.  Complaints of the XM16E1's unreliability in combat didn't surface until late 1966-early 1967.  By this point, the AR-18 had already been tested by the US Army during the SAWS trials, and as a result of these trials, the decision had been made to standardize the XM16E1 for all US troops not deployed as part of NATO.  --D.E. Watters (talk) 22:16, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Indonesian use of AR-18s
http://garudamiliter.blogspot.com/2012/03/senapan-serbu-nasional.html Based on this website, Indonesia used the AR-18 with a designation SS-77 or Assault Rifle year 1977 and made a 7.62x51mm NATO version designated SS-79 (year 1979). Should this be added to the wiki page?

AR-16 Reference
Article references the AR-16 as a predecessor to the AR-18 and suggests that the AR-16 used stamped steel components. I do not believe this is correct. I own several Modern Sporting Rifles of the AR-16 direct-impingement design in semi-automatic. The receiver halves are made from either billet aluminum or forged aluminum. One of the revolutionary features of Mr. Stoner's design for the AR-10 and derivitaves is the unique-for-the-time use of materials like aluminum and plastics. Stamped steel is an older process that is still used today. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.202.206.3 (talk) 18:50, 20 October 2015 (UTC)


 * A bit late to reply to this I know, as this comment was added nearly 3 years ago, but there seems to be confusion in nomenclature; the AR-16 is a Stoner design but is not an AR-15/M-16 variant. As the article states, the AR-16 and its AR-18 derivative resulted in part from the need to avoid infringing on the AR-15 design (forged aluminium receiver and direct impingement gas system) that had been sold to Colt. Only three or so AR-16 prototypes are known to have been made; they are of stamped steel construction with a side-folding butt and a conventional short-stroke gas piston like the AR-18 derivative. Strangways (talk) 22:29, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

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Iconic Photo
There is a recent news story (https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2020/0616/1147804-troubles-northern-ireland-colman-doyle-photo-woman-ira-belfast-1973/) talking about an iconic photo from the Troubles which features a woman using an AR-18. I feel like this is pretty representative, as an example reinforcing the text discussion about the IRA use of the weapon, but I'm certain the most appropriate way to add the image and such to the story, in terms of copyright, etc. Any suggestions or pointers? DBalling (talk) 07:02, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

BRN-108 Barrel Length correction
I noticed that the barrel lengths listed for the brn-180 were missing the 18.5 inch option. Innocuous, but it bothered me as it's a fairly easy thing to verify as you only need to go to Brownell's website to find this information. I found an issue, however, in editing this myself.

What's currently on the wiki: "The BRN-180 comes with an adjustable gas block and a free-floating modular handguard and is available in 16" and 10.5" barrel lengths." There are two ways, that I can currently think of, to write the corrected list: 1: ...and is available in 18.5", 16" and 10.5" barrel lengths. 2: ...and is available in 18.5 inch, 16 inch and 10.5 inch barrel lengths.

Both of these look odd to me. Which is the better option, or (preferably) what am I overlooking here that would solve this by being the best option? Theta-Psi (talk) 05:46, 1 July 2020 (UTC)


 * How about "and is available in 18.5-, 16-, and 10.5-inch barrel lengths."   This is a format I see used quite a bit in such lists. It does feel weird to be using descending order, but that might be a more aesthetic issue for me. DBalling (talk) 05:52, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

AR18 used by Dominicans
Sources were included, one of which is a page I manage, other is another image of an AR18 in use. Was searching for it to add prior to the edit getting undone.

https://www.facebook.com/Coldwarcollectors/photos/a.779340852089859/1401933039830634 AFAIK the original page that posted it is long dead and wasn't archived.

https://elsoldelaflorida.com/caamano-previo-a-la-batalla-del-matum/ Additional photo of an AR18 in use by an unknown rebel, photographer is unknown but is possibly Milvio Perez, since he took a few other photos in and around the Matum Hotel in Santo Domingo during the 65 civil war.

So why was it removed?-JP--Janus Primus (talk) 19:38, 24 September 2020 (UTC)


 * Your own Facebook page is not a reliable reference. The other doesn't mention ArmaLite AR-18, it is your interpretation of a photo that the gun in the image is an ArmaLite AR-18, thus prohibited by policy. FDW777 (talk) 19:41, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

Stupid Question
With regards to the AR-xxx weapon systems, would it not be better to title the pages as "ArmaLite Rifle (AR)-xxx" or something as such to remove the idea that "AR" stands for "Assault Rifle" instead of "ArmaLite Rifle"? Just a random thought and not sure if it has been mentioned before or not. Rvnknight (talk) 06:44, 19 December 2020 (UTC)


 * No, as the company's name was never "ArmaLite Rifle". BilCat (talk) 08:03, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

Correct that the company was not "ArmaLite Rifle;" that is what the AR in weapons such as AR-10, AR-15, AR-18, AR-180, and AR-16 was short for. To be specific, it was "ArmaLite, Inc rifle design XXX". My question was more for clarity sake so that people that don't know the history of ArmaLite, Inc, and of E. Stoner, do not just assume, as many do, that AR means assault rifle. Hell, even Britannica got it right with the name (https://www.britannica.com/technology/ArmaLite-rifle). Rvnknight (talk) 09:37, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

the AR180 was in fact adopted by south korea as the K2 rifle
After the Korean War, the Republic of Korea (ROK) armed forces were primarily supplied with surplus U.S. small arms. M1 Garands and M2 carbines armed the country’s large conscript army, though the former were ill-suited for Korean troops. The Daewoo corporation licensed the M16A1 design from Colt, but upon the license’s expiration, the Korean military would be left without a rifle to produce. Seoul decided it would design and manufacture its own rifle, to Korean specifications.

South Korean small arms engineers basically took the operating system behind Eugene Stoner’s AR-18 assault rifle and copied it. The AR-18, known as Stoner’s other assault rifle design (other than the AR-15), used a short-stroke gas piston and rotating bolt. The South Korean rifle design used a long stroke gas piston design and a gas system copied from the FN FAL battle rifle, with a three position gas regulator. At 7.2 pounds the rifle was about the same weight as other NATO 5.56-millimeter rifles. the national interest

No class of weapon designated the assault rifle
See above 2001:44C8:45CB:9467:DDAA:B06D:B7E2:5E18 (talk) 12:08, 25 March 2024 (UTC)