Talk:Association football club names

Title
Definitely scope for an interesting article here, but surely Football club suffixes would be a better title? Oldelpaso 18:29, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Or simply Football club names, to incorporate Sparta etc. Oldelpaso 18:32, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Which examples to use?
I see the potential for edit wars over which team with a given name to include. I think it would be a good idea to cite examples from multiple countries where a name is used internationally (hence my addition of Atletico Madrid). If verifiable including the first team to bear the name would be useful. Oldelpaso 18:43, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Origin of "City"
As far as I'm aware, Manchester City were the first club to use the suffix, changing name from Ardwick in 1894. If this is true, then I can go into more detail about the origin, but it'd be handy to get it confirmed by a source which isn't solely concerned with Manchester City, like my books are. Oldelpaso 18:59, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
 * After doing more research I think it might be Lincoln City. Stoke City are older, but were just plain Stoke back then. Oldelpaso 19:09, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Scope
What about changing the scope from just "Football club names" to "Sports club names"? Seeing as some of the clubs could have sections for other sports as well, and it makes it more interesting to a wider audience. Punkmorten 08:43, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

To-do list (from WP:FAID)

 * Internationalise
 * Add references for origin of names
 * Possibly break out the table into prose sections
 * Expand by adding missing names commonly used for football clubs
 * Expand to include club initials: FC and its various translations, SV, VfB etc


 * Hardly any articles link to it. Sir-Nobby 18:26, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Column width
The clubs column is getting far too wide, there are too many examples in quite a few places - remember, not every single example of each name has to be there. ArtVandelay13 21:54, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Suggest restructuring
The way the list is currently structured, I believe it is prone to chaos. The inclusion criteria are not always clear, to name one thing (when is a club name "common", for instance). I want to suggest three ways to address this issue: Cows fly kites (Aecis) Rule/Contributions 13:48, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) I suggest a move to List of components of football (soccer) club names. The list is not so much about the names of football clubs, as about certain words and terms being used in more than one club name.
 * 2) I want to suggest changing the current alphabetical structure to a topical structure, in which this list is divided into sections such as Clubs named after people (Tottenham Hotspur, Crewe Alexandra, Northwich Victoria), Club names referring to an ethnic or national background (eg. Türkiyemspor Berlin, Türkiyemspor Amsterdam, the Celtics, Polonia, Albion, Slavia, etc), Clubs named after animals, Clubs named after mythological beings (Ajax, Hercules, Achilles), Clubs named after geographical features (Vale, Forest, City, Town, Island), Club names referring to a profession or education (Academic, University), Club names containing an abbreviation (SC, FC, VfB, VfL, VfR), etc.
 * 3) If this is not endorsed, I suggest creating subsections by letter.
 * I like the idea of number 2. Oldelpaso 15:01, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the #2 is definitely the most interesting one. --Angelo 21:58, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Another vote for proposal 2. I think the hierarchy should be: ArtVandelay13 19:23, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Topic
 * Name
 * Translations
 * Example clubs
 * Something like Club names containing abbreviations > VfR > German for Verein für Rasenspiele (association for lawn games) > VfR Aalen, VfR Bürstadt, VfR Mannheim, VfR Schlesien Breslau, VfR Wormatia Worms? A  ecis Brievenbus 21:10, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, although I think abbreviations and initials should be a separate section, as all clubs have them, regardless of the rest of their name. Also all the language variations (and their languages) should be listed with the description (as per the FC row in the current table). ArtVandelay13 21:22, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I also want to suggest using the rowspan= code, so that we can split the club names by country. "Stade", for instance, includes two countries at the moment, and may include a lot more. That may add some structure to the list. If there are no objections by tomorrow or early next week, I will start to implement proposal #2. A ecis Brievenbus 14:02, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Let's use the "Steel"-clubs to illustrate the new structure I proposed above. This is what I suggest: A ecis Brievenbus 00:18, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Club names referring to an education or profession


 * I made some changes to your table, you can see my edited version here. First of all, I wouldn't make the table sortable since there's actually no need for it: you have just a column that makes sense to be sorted ("topic"). Secondly, I think it would be better to set vertical alignment for "topic" and "meaning" at the top of the cell. And lastly, I believe it would be good to include country names aside the respective flags. Feel free to take it, change it or ignore it, according to how it looks to you. --Angelo 02:36, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure about the alignment, but other than that your version is better than mine. I agree that the table shouldn't be sortable, and I agree that adding the country names behind the flags makes it clearer. I do think, however, that the tables will be spaced better when the first two columns are aligned center instead of top. A  ecis Brievenbus 18:04, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Alright. I did set the vertical alignment back to the center. --Angelo 19:37, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
 * This is a community effort, I won't restructure the article without substantial consensus. Could you please explain to me why you think top alignment is better than central alignment? A  ecis Brievenbus 19:53, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
 * It was just a personal opinion, that's all. I have really no problem in changing it, in fact I already did it if you have a look at my sandbox. --Angelo 20:25, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Some general sources for UK and other club names

 * British Council
 * http://www.britishcouncil.org/japan-sport-footballculture-names-explain-1.htm
 * http://www.britishcouncil.org/japan-sport-footballculture-names-explain-2.htm
 * http://www.britishcouncil.org/japan-sport-footballculture-names-explain-3.htm

Please bear in mind that these are by no means 'academic' sources. Note also that the explanation given for 'athletic' above fits into the late 19th century muscular Christianity vogue that caused many clubs to be founded. Foxhill 02:07, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Força e Luz
Força e Luz means "power and light" in Portuguese. This was the usual name for companies that both generated and distributed electricity. See Companhia Força e Luz Cataguases Leopoldina. This has nothing to do with ideals. It belongs to the "electricity" section jggouvea 00:46, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Rampla Juniors
Can anyone who is any good with code have a go at the Rampla Juniors line at the bottom? I cannot work out what has gone wrong... 62.25.109.195 11:12, 9 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Fixed. The row span for that section had to be increased from 16 to 17. - Dudesleeper · Talk 11:37, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Splitting Company name
I have added Company names to the "Club names referring to a profession" section of the list. I propose splitting that topic in four: Employee clubs (e.g. PSV and Vauxhall Motors), Parent company (e.g. Red Bull Salzburg), Sponsorship (for club names containing the name of a sponsor, such as Total Network Solutions F.C. (now The New Saints F.C. of Wales), and Other (not just for club names containing a company name for other reasons than these three, but also for clubs where the relation to the company is not (yet) known). This can easily be done, adding a specific rowspan code to the Meaning column. For example: if the topic (Company name) has a rowspan of 8, the rowspan for the meaning can be 3 for Employee clubs, 2 for Parent company, 2 for Sponsorship and 1 for Other. Any thoughts? A  ecis Brievenbus 12:50, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Origin of "Racing"
Racing is a semi-common word found in many club names across the world yet has no explanation for why clubs chose this name. Looking over many (maybe all) the articles with teams containing "Racing," I could only find one that gave an explanation to it's origin: Racing Club Warwick F.C. Although it's reasoning - club moved next to a horse racing track - is unsourced, checking Warwick's website confirms this is true. A couple of other articles - RC Lens, Racing Métro 92 Paris (rugby) - simply say they wanted to use an English name but give no reason why. Is there even an explanation? --Blackbox77 (talk) 20:43, 20 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Apparently I have my answer now. --Blackbox77 (talk) 03:30, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

FK Partizan
Similar to the Dinamo/Dynamo, Spartak and Zenit sports societies in communist Eastern Europe, the Serbian club FK Partizan belonged to the Partizan sports society. It is the only example I know, but perhaps it is worth including in the article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FK_Partizan —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.89.126.120 (talk) 02:53, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Clubs named after other clubs?
Sometimes a club is deliberately named for another club - does this deserve a separate section? Some examples: Corinthians (Brazil - after Corinthian Casuals, England); Johnson Villa (New Zealand - after Aston Villa, England); Newcastle United (Australia - after Newcastle United, England). Grutness...wha?  01:21, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, that sounds entirely appropriate. ArtVandelay13 (talk) 13:04, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Association Football club names
The article's name is misleading as it suggests that all forms of football are included when this is clearly limited to association football. I'd suggest a name change but in the meantime I'll change the opening link to one that deals exclusively with association football clubs rather than american football and others. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.40.178.252 (talk) 00:49, 5 March 2009 (UTC)


 * It's interesting that there was no response to this post. Is it because soccer fans don't think about or don't even know about the existence of other games called football? As an Australian I routinely see six different sports called football (by some of their followers) over the year. Obviously the article needs to be moved to Association football club names. I will do it very soon if there is no rational objection. HiLo48 (talk) 00:11, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Cleanup needed, my bad
I had difficulty with parts of the table code and left some of the ethnic/national orgin table undone. If somebody who's more familiar with this text format could do a repair and erase my cock-up, it would be greatly appreciated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Moregrizzled (talk • contribs) 00:35, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi! I fixed the table; Regards, --Carioca (talk) 00:43, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Proposal to move (rename) this article
As documented above, the article's name is misleading. It appears to only describe names of clubs playing what is known in Wikipedia as Association football. It does not appear to cover clubs playing other forms of football. I propose a move to Association football club names. HiLo48 (talk) 01:11, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Proposal for a bold edit
It is evident from a cursory reading of the article that it has swelled a lot in comparison with its earliest versions. Now it contains tenths of categories and even subcategories, some of them containing only one or two club names, some of them listing clubs that do not even have a wikipedia article for them, or listing clubs that shouldn't have, considering the notability threshold.

As the article grows, it becomes less useable --- and less useful too. I think it is the time for a bold edit, with the following policies:


 * remove any categories which only include one club, even if the club is relevant. The article should be concerned with the "patterns" of club names. A club whose name is unique is not, of course, following any pattern.
 * remove any links to clubs without wikipedia articles, except those deemed notable enough to deserve one.
 * develop a criterion to assess the "relevance" of a club to justify its inclusion here. I propose that no club that has not been a national champion AND has not had a relevant participation in international tournaments should not be memorable enough, unless it is a VERY TRADITIONAL club from a country that deserves attention. What I am trying to say is that mentions of second-division clubs from Romania or Algeria or Paraguay are much less justifiable than second-division clubs from England, Brazil or Italy.
 * keep the article trimmed, protecting it from future inclusion of irrelevant clubs.

But BEFORE any of these measures is taken, it should be wise to define THE ONE important thing that I thinki the article misses the most: a justification for the existence of the article in itself: What is the article intended to accomplish?


 * Is it a list of patterns used throughout the most relevant football playing nations to name the entities ("clubs") involved in the sport?
 * Is it a list of all clubs of the world, categorised by what their names mean?
 * Is it a list of clubs whose names have meaningful names (which is, "most")?
 * Or is it something else that escapes me?

jggouvea (talk) 23:05, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Borussia Dortmund
Ballspielverein isn't equal to Ball Club in German. They are two composed words: Ballspiel and Verein. Verein means Club, Ballspiel (Ball+Spiel) means Ball Game. So a Ballspielclub is a Ball Game Club. --188.193.49.134 (talk) 00:35, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

hi
my name is Wilfred Ndidi,i am 4rm NIGERIA.I WANT 2 KNOW ABOUT THE ACADEMY. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.184.23.79 (talk) 10:50, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Germany
For Germany, Austria, German speaking Switzerland and former eastern territories of Germany you`ll find lists with nearly 2.000 names on www.Vereinsnamen.de — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.65.182.34 (talk) 17:27, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Leyton Orient
The article states that Leyton Orient is named after the fact it is from the East part of London, yet this site states it is named after the Orient Shipping Line: http://www.historicalkits.co.uk/Leyton_Orient/Leyton_Orient.htm (scroll down) Also, Hamilton Academical from Scotland can be added to the teams named after schools. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cruon (talk • contribs) 15:04, 12 September 2014 (UTC)