Talk:Athanasios Pipis

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Is this guy a Greek? There are no Greeks in Vuno and the references cannot be seen that he is Greek. If we consider all the Albanian mercenaries that fought in the Greek War of Independence as Greeks, there are no Albanians left... -- Sulmues talk   19:59, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 * According to the second reference:"The term Greek is often not an ethnic term, but a religious one denoting orthodox faith ad not necessarily Greek ethnicity . Also the first reference says nothing about him being Greek or Albanian or anything else about his ethnicity.-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 20:14, 19 April 2010 (UTC)


 * The first reference links to sentence related to Alipashiad not the subject, so I'll remove it.-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 20:18, 19 April 2010 (UTC)


 * link's fixed, thank you.Alexikoua (talk) 20:32, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

How you know that there were no Greeks in Vouno 200 years before?Alexikoua (talk) 20:39, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't know if he was Greek(as Alexikoua) suggests or Albanian(as Sulmues suggests), because there are no sources confirming any of these two, so I'll write the only thing that is confirmed that he was an Orthodox.-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 14:37, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

A folk song of the era has been copied by one of your references Alexikoua and it's in Albanian while the person isn't mentioned as "Athanasios Pipis" but as "Thanas Pipi" in the song. The translation is strange because the name is Thanas Pipi while the translation is "Thanasses Pipes", which doesn't make sense since if that was his name his co-villagers would use that name in the song-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 19:22, 20 April 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry, but this proves nothing. There are various Albanian songs dedicated to several non-Albanian. Unfortunately you need some real argument to claim that he was Albanian.Alexikoua (talk) 19:35, 20 April 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm not claiming that he was Albanian. You are claiming that he is Greek while Sulmues suggests that he may be Albanian. I'm pointing out the obvious that he was an Orthodox and any discussion regarding his ethnicity when there aren't references to prove any of the theories is pointless.-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 19:37, 20 April 2010 (UTC)


 * He was a Greek revolutionary as the source (Pappas) says (it's obvious from the title. Off course the link you gave has zero hits: "The term Greek is often not an ethnic term, but a religious one denoting orthodox faith ad not necessarily Greek ethnicity and the Albanian folksong argument is ridiculous. I wonder why you insist too much on providing just wrong arguments only to justify your revert ready situation.Alexikoua (talk) 19:51, 20 April 2010 (UTC)


 * By the way I've provided an entire library in Skanderbeg you still need to answer, don't tell me that all sources are from 1910 again.Alexikoua (talk) 19:54, 20 April 2010 (UTC)


 * the link works fine, exactly what I copied. As you consider that obvious Sulmues considers obvious that he may have been Albanian. You both have no references to back you up, so the term Orthodox is the most accurate one. Also please don't recycle past discussions.-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 19:58, 20 April 2010 (UTC)


 * It still doesn't say something about Pipis, or even some specific names. It's just a typical Zappas' style disruption.Alexikoua (talk) 20:07, 20 April 2010 (UTC)


 * None of you have provided references for his ethnicity because there aren't any. And as you can see I'm not removing the Northern Epirus placename(although it was removed by mistake in my revert) because he was an Orthodox who considered himself just an Orthodox.-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 20:17, 20 April 2010 (UTC)


 * "he was an Orthodox who considered himself just an Orthodox"?. Why I have the feeling that this is wp:or? Alexikoua (talk) 20:43, 20 April 2010 (UTC)


 * You're all idiots. He was clearly Zulu. And now he's a corpse. DS (talk) 20:48, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

His native name seems to be Thanas Pipi while the current title of the article is just a translation by the two Greek authors. I'm going to move the article.

-- Kënga  Jonë 17:23, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Athenean, could you please at least move to Athanasios Pipis, rather than Athansios Pipis? KengaJone has a point: his name should be spelt Athanas, but I'm not fighting it, since I find no sources in Albanian on him. --SulmuesLet's talk 18:56, 21 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Are you kidding me? Look at the sources already in the article.  Athenean (talk) 19:03, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
 * The only source says clearly Athanasios, not Athansios. It's missing an "A". --SulmuesLet's talk 20:03, 22 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Actually the page is not moving to Athanasios.Alexikoua (talk) 20:15, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: page moved by someone. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 11:52, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Athansios Pipis → Athanasios Pipis — The only source says clearly Athanasios, not Athansios. It's missing an "A". SulmuesLet's talk 20:32, 23 April 2010 (UTC) done.-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 15:38, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Next time, make sure "move associated talk page" is also ticked. 81.111.114.131 (talk) 22:11, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Born in the Ottoman Empire
I omitted Northern Epirus. This region was a self-proclaimed autonomous province in 1914. Pipi was born in the 18th century, so there is no way he could have been born in "Northern Epirus". The use of "Northern Epirus" should be strictly connected to the short lived province IMO. --SulmuesLet's talk 18:14, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Even if a region was self-proclaimed autonomous or independent, this doesn't mean that the term should be chronologically limited according to this event. For example we are using the term Albania even before 1912, or about Greece before 1830, or Chameria, which was never self-proclaimed or at least the official name of an administrative region. That's because modern bibliography makes use of these terms. We should not comfuse the geographic region with the autonomous entity, in the specific region the term isn't limited in 1914 and there is an entire bibliopgraphy that confirms this, such as [] which describes the history of Northern Epirus/southern Albania through the centuries. Moreover, this term is necessary for the context, as per Zjarri's conclusion []Alexikoua (talk) 19:24, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

I've reverted the obvious vandalism and also brought it back to last concensus version. About the presence of Northern Epirus/Chameria terminology we can initiate a general discussion but I don't see a reason to follow double standarts in this strategy, so I've reverted a previous removal too.Alexikoua (talk) 09:42, 14 June 2010 (UTC)