Talk:Atlantis: The Lost Empire/Archive 1

Plagiarism
The article needs a section for the controversy about the many similiarities to Gainax's Nadia http://www.thesecretofbluewater.com/atlantis-i.htm

http://www.thesecretofbluewater.com/atlantis-i.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.152.32.14 (talk) 09:23, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

The 'controversy' section is non-neutral viewpoint and should be removed or edited to a neutral viewpoint. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.214.21.30 (talk) 05:49, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
 * In fact it is rather NPOV. It mentioned some viewers and critics pointing out the similarities, while some pointed out other sources of their similarities making it that way instead of plagiarism. —Preceding signed comment added by MythSearchertalk  12:14, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Quotations (in Atlantean)
Is it me or is that part of the article a bit needless?
 * Nope, I agree with you. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 123.100.91.99 (talk) 09:08, 17 January 2007 (UTC).

Steampunk
Disney has not advertised nor was it ever stated that this film is steampunk. We should stop jumping on the bandwagon to categorise every work of fiction that has some semblance to the genre and instead list those which truly are affiliated or part of the Steampunk genre. As far as I know this movie bears more relation to fantasy with elements borrowed from science-fiction - however that does not qualify it as steampunk. 82.155.15.197 17:58, 4 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Whether Disney labelled the film as Steampunk isn't relevant, as it contains contains significant Steampunk elements. Based on my multiple viewings of the film, aside from the Victorian setting (appropriate for Steampunk), there is an abundance of steam-powered and anachronistic vehicles and technology, including a gigantic, Jules Verne-esque submarine.  There are fantasy elements ("magic crystal-powered" machines in Atlantis, for example), but that doesn't exclude this film from the catefory.  There's too much Steampunk for the film to be considered otherwise.  As such, I've re-added this page to the Steampunk category.  Note that it was already listed in the text of the Steampunk page - any future discussions about the appropriateness of this film in the category should probably take place there.  Fleecebeast 21:45, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Lambda instead of A
It appears they used the Greek letter Λ (lambda) instead of A. This seems typical because they're trying to make it look prehistoric, and most countries with a Roman alphabet would be able to accept it as a substitute for A, though some people would actually notice that they actually used lambda.

I always noticed that too. Isn't that ridiculous? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Epigraphist (talk • contribs) 21:36, 15 January 2007 (UTC).

Did you guys also notice that the letter "E" in the word "The" and "Empire" has a dot instead of a middle dash. I don't know whether this is lambda or not but um yeah. :)

59.100.148.230 08:44, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes, its indeed a stylized lambda, which of course doesnt make any sense. Would this count as mock-greek? - Redmess (talk) 21:01, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Actualy, No. Grεεk Lεttεring is added in for a grεat look and fεεl. Half-Life became HλLF-LIFE And Atlantis became ATLΛNTIS. I always write an E as ε (Epsilon). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.112.157.61 (talk) 08:52, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Ages
Is there any real reason for specifying the age of each character and Wikifying those ages to indicate the year they were born? It just seems silly. Where the heck do those ages come from, anyway? Are they stated in the movie? It's been a while since I've seen it, but I don't recall that. 24.62.27.66 16:41, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

The ages of each character comes from the background information presented in the assorted books that acompanied the movie's release. Each dossier is in "The Journal of Milo Thatch" and other books, I think.

Epigraphist (talk) 05:25, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

I was able to find out some info on Gaeton Moliere as his profile was the only visible. He is 36 years old in 1914, born in 1878, and worked in the past as a geologist and a cave explorer, which explains his experience in digging and identifying rocks. His birthplace is Paris, France, and I forgot his parent's names. - Rockmandrum —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.234.121.159 (talk) 03:58, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Spoilers
"Atlantis: The Lost Empire also shares a bit of plot with Stargate- A scholar with a theory nobody believes in but one person, who hires him to help seek out the mysteries of the theory. Both movies end almost the same, with the main lead staying behind with the exotic girl while the rest head back home."

Come on now. That's the basic plot for millions of adventure stories. While the similarities with Nadia are numerous, mention Stargate and you'll have to mention ever other stock adventure plot. Magmagoblin (talk) 11:49, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Can this spoiler be moved or deleted entirely? - Would it be possible to put a mention of the similarities to Stargate (the movie) back in, without spoilers? Coincidental or not, they are significant.
 * I pulled them out because it wasn't relevant to the article at all. The section was discussing the Nadia controversy, not how many Atlantis films are similar to this one.

I also noticed the similarities with STARGATE when I first saw the movie, but I never searched for an article or web site that we could use as a valid source for that. Anyone got a source for that? Vicco Lizcano 18:28, 17 April 2007 (UTC) (Hey! Listen!)
 * Not to mention the use of very similar music and the "A without a crossbar" used in the titles. - Quolnok (talk) 09:37, 9 November 2008 (


 * Large portions of this movie are almost identical to the Stargate movie. This is not a "lots of movies use this basic plot" thing but, rather, a lot of exact comparisons that go way beyond the ordinary. Not just the funky A (which is the start, though) but the fact that Milo's character is almost just like Daniel Jackson's, down to being brought along as an ancient language specialist and, yes, down to remaining behind with the girl who works with him to decipher the ancient language.96.225.212.89 (talk) 00:09, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Atlantis: The Lost Empire and Edgar Cayce
After watching the film, the movie I think borrows some of the prophetic visions of Edgar Cayce, especially in the fact that Cayce did prophesize that the Alantaens did have supernatural powers and could master the art of flying (according to a program of the History Channel "Decoding the Past" which told about Edgar Cayce's life). Should this be added as a possible influence in the movie's story?--DannyDaWriter 01:53, 6 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I watched some of the documentary features on the DVD. The producers and writers talk about the literature sources they used to research the Atlantis mythology, and they showed a picture of Cayce during that segment. Cayce was also the one who described a mystical blue stone with the power to heal, which clearly had a strong impact on the writers. This blue crystal has been one of the main similarities mentioned by Nadia fans who claim that Atlantis stole from Nadia.67.183.31.9 18:50, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Language issues
I'm not sure where I read it, but I recall something about some theorists about language development believing there might be a common origin to various things, which might be connected to Atlantis, I suppose. Not sure I know enough about the subject to really say though. FrozenPurpleCube 04:13, 13 August 2006 (UTC)


 * If I understand it correctly, most European and west Asian languages are supposed to have developed from a much older Indo-European root language. I thought myself that Marc Okrand deliberately designed the Atlantean language to fit that idea. It would be his kind of humor. --Greg

Most serious scientists of language hold the origin of language to be beyond the view of science. However, a minority speculates about such things and thinks that either

1 All languages came from one language or

2 All languages came from seperate languages.

Very few scientists of related fields believe that Atlantis existed and so even fewer think that all languages came from there.

Yeah, "Proto-Indo-European" is the language from which most of the languages of Europe and West India, not Asia, came from. West Asia is very family-diverse in languages, containing Caucasian and Afro-Asiatic as well as Uralic and Altaic language families. And Okrand did use what parts of words (word roots) scientists have been able to attempt the reconstruction of for Proto-Indo-European.

Epigraphist (talk) 05:56, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Star Gate
Watch the movie more than one scene appears to be very simialer to this movie.


 * I seem to recall that there were serious based accusations of plagiarism with Stargate (The movie). I'm a little surprised that there's no mention of them at the article.--RR&#39; 16:54, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Another similarity is that the main character in both (who are kinda alike, by the way) remains behind with the girl at the end. Coincidence? --81.233.196.49 (talk) 18:51, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

This is all something I was just thinking. There's a section claiming it's very similar to an anime, but I think it's blatantly similar to Stargate. You have an archeologist who isn't taken serious because of his outrageous beliefs, a benefactor comes to him and offering to support him as well as with some proof towards these beliefs, a team is made and a journey is taken, main character meets a girl and helps save her, in the end he stays behind with her and the outside world isn't informed of the truth. 99.240.191.134 (talk) 16:54, 12 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh, not just an archaeologist. A linguist.  A linguist who is at first hated by the rest of the team.  Really the only difference between Atlantis and Stargate is that Kurt Russel wasn't in it for the money. 99.0.102.214 (talk) 19:08, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Most of plot and setting stolen from Castle in the Sky?
It seems Atlantis has been accused of ripping off lots of things, when compared to Laputa: Castle in the Sky many parallels can be seen. This is suspicious since Disney was making the English dub for laputa around the time around when they released Atlantis.

In both movies the setting takes place in the turn of the century. There is a young man who believes in a lost city with advanced technology exists. They were told of the lost cities by their father who died. There is an expedition to find the lost cities(on airships in Laputa and a giant submarine in Atlantis). The ancient civilizations both use blue crystals to power their technology(though Atlantis's crystals can be attributed to the predictions of Edgar Casey). Laputa has flying robots that shoot lasers and Atlantis has several robot like devices and flying vehicles. The villain has a secret plan to use the cities power for personal gain(world domination/wealth). This ones not so good but the pirates in Laputa can somewhat be compared slightly to the rough gang of treasure hunters.

Atlantis overall does not fit in well with the normal Disney style. It contains violence and death and takes a somewhat steampunk sci-fi setting.

I think this info should be added to the article. Some of the more ambiguous parallels should probably be omitted but I think its a pretty good argument. Ill have to check the exact dates but I think Laputa was dubbed by Disney in 1998 or something. I think that was around the time that Atlantis came out. I have heard(from Disney DVDs not conspiracy websites) that the people at Disney like to watch Hayao Miyazaki movies(the writer/director of Laputa) for inspiration. Suspicious?--74.38.99.188 15:19, 30 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I definitely agree. There is a confirmed link on the IMDb movie connections list - see here. Thanks for making note of all these similarities. If you can cite some sources then please add it to the article. (I'm not an admin, but I am a fan of Wiki, Atlantis and Studio Ghibli/Miyazaki's works :D)--rjcuk 23:34, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Hey, I'm a stranger on the Wiki, but even I know that this counts as original research. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.122.21.213 (talk) 02:30, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I've been spending the last two years researching the language and mythos of Disney's movie. It looks like they borrowed quite heavily from the following sources:

1 Castle in the Sky

2 Star Gate

3 Journey to the Center of the Earth

4 20,000 Leagues under the Sea

5 The writings of H.P. Lovecraft. These parallels are really cool:

The Shepherd's Journal is from The Necronomicon (of all things non-Disney...)

The Shepherd Aziz, who wrote it, is Abdul Alhazred "The Mad Arab" who "claimed to have seen the fabulous Irem, or City of Pillars, and to have found beneath the ruins of a certain nameless desert town the shocking annals and secrets of a race older than mankind." (Lovecraft's "History", see article.) His original name for the Necronomicon is "al-Azif".

The location of Atlantis in the movie is similar also to Lovecraft's The Mound (short story) with its multiple underground caverns.

Oh, and believe it or not, the Leviathan is probably based on Cthulhu.

There are numerous other similarities that can mostly be found through reading "The Call of Cthulhu", although be warned it's disturbing reading.

6 "Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis" video game

And a few other sources I've forgotten. The research for Atlantis is really quite well-done despite the absence of the canals and covers many books and Internet articles from circa 1997. Of these, Plato's dialogues and Donnelly's work are most heavily used.

Epigraphist (talk) 05:57, 26 July 2008 (UTC)