Talk:Attic numerals

Comments
I just corrected some wildly inaccurate descriptions of the numerals. I have cites and will provide them when I can get into my library (maybe this weekend?) The numerals on Greek numerals are not correct, either. We need some images of the combined numerals. I'll get to that too, when time allows. Cbdorsett 07:59, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Hey, I just noticed that the comment on the original use of the eta in the Attic alphabet was wrong. I corrected the mistake, since the H was originally the marker of the rough breathing only, it would have originally been spelled ΗΕΚΑΤΟΝ and not ΗΚΑΤΟΝ. - E, 3:41 PM (EST) 10/7/2007

Follow up --> the comment about "classical Greek" inventing the spiritus asper is also false... these never showed up until Alexandrian scholars implemented it to allow non-native speakers to more clearly understand the pronunciation of words. It was the adoption of the Ionic alphabet in Attica that made the change in the eta to represent the long e instead of the rough breathing. I am making these corrections now. - E, 3:45 PM (EST) 10/7/2007

Just added references for the information, namely the role of eta in the early Attic alphabet, as it seems Cbdorsett has a history of undoing corrections to his initial error of "HKATON", so now that it has been referenced, hopefully this won't happen again. - E, 7:32 PM (EST) 11/7/2007

More on ΗΕΚΑΤΟΝ and contemporary Greek spelling
The article currently states: ''...resulting in the modern Greek spelling ἑκατόν. In modern Greek the /h/ phoneme has disappeared altogether, but the accent on the ἑ is retained in the standard spelling.''

It's not an accent (τόνος) on the initial ε, it's a "rough breathing mark". However, breathing marks are not used in Standard Modern Greek and the word is now spelt εκατό. Standard Modern Greek has been the official form of Greek since 1976 and is written in monotonic script without breathing marks.

Breathing marks were present in Katharevousa, which is written in polytonic script, but Katharevousa ceased to be the official language of Greece in 1976. There is nothing modern, or standard, about Katharevousa spelling. Oh, and modern Greek has dropped the final ν from the word and changed the accent mark from varia to tonos.

I've corrected the text of the article to reflect this. StefanosPavlos (talk) 17:27, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

IE8
In IE8, will the characters in this article that show up as boxes be altered so that they become visible?? Georgia guy (talk) 21:21, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * A reasonable request, although Unicode support should be improving. I think that there are already images for all those characters. --Jorge Stolfi (talk) 04:18, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

Image files
I think image files should be included for the characters that are not being rendered at all (or a single download of them all). —DIV (128.250.80.15 (talk))

Maybe this image could fit somewhere in here? Adia (talk) 11:00, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe a symbol for 50 staters. See the new table in the article.  Anyway, IIRC the "Δ" sometimes had serifs hanging down from the sides, like that. --Jorge Stolfi (talk) 04:16, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

Edit request on 6 August 2013
According to the table below the line: 'For example, is five times ten thousand.' should be changed to: 'For example,  is five times one thousand'..

131.174.255.202 (talk) 09:49, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done RudolfRed (talk) 03:33, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 18 October 2013
The example given for how to write 1982, at the bottom of the page, appears to use the wrong Unicode values for the 500 (D) and 50 (L) symbols - they appear as linear B characters in Firefox ESR 10 and two rectangular boxes in Opera 12.

I assume this problem isn't browser version specific as the other characters are shown correctly, and the correct symbols appear earlier in the page.

80.1.186.173 (talk) 00:44, 18 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes check.svg Done, in a way. I think it may be partly browser-specific, and partly dependent on the fonts you have installed. See Help:Special characters. The rest of the article uses images rather than Unicode characters, and I have done the same for the example. It's not very pretty, because the images fall below the line (versions with a couple of rows of blank pixels at the bottom would be better), but it should show the right characters in all browsers on all systems. --Stfg (talk) 15:49, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, Stfg. Yes, using images seems like the most reliable solution. I'll look into fixing the fonts for my browsers, and try to check on newer versions, when I get the chance. I see there's a clue to whether the correct fonts are installed in the answer to the "Rendering" comment - another character that appears as a linear B one, in Firefox ESR 10, after "It looks similar to".

Semi-protected edit request on 22 January 2018
Please change "wasn't" to "was not" per Contractions. 192.41.131.253 (talk) 20:35, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done Gulumeemee (talk) 01:43, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

A history section is needed
The article needs a historic section. And references. --Jorge Stolfi (talk) 04:19, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

My browser renders the symbols for 50 and 500 identically
In the "Symbol" column, both 50 and 500 are shown as squares. I suspect that there may be a missing symbol in the fonts? I'm on a Mac running Chrome. Maybe there should be PNGs instead of symbols to guarantee that they are drawn correctly? AristosM (talk) 03:56, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 February 2021
The line "62708 = 60000 + 2000 + 700 + 8 = 𐅇Μ + ΧΧ + 𐅅ΗΗ + ΠIII = 𐅇ΜΧΧ𐅅ΗΗΠIII." in the General Numbers section uses capital Latin letter I for it's example rather than capital Greek Iota (Ι). Zedseven7 (talk) 06:35, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. 54nd60x (talk) 08:42, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Now there are incorrect Is in number from 2 to 9 and in 2001 sum. Xs, Hs and Ms are all correct. 217.117.125.83 (talk) 18:27, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ◢  Ganbaruby!   (talk) 15:59, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Rendering in Edge browser
If (like me) you use the Chromium-based version of Edge and find yourself presented with boxes in place of the special characters peculiar to Attic numerals, the solution is to find a font which contains graphemes for the Unicode block of Ancient Greek Numbers, (U+10140 to U+1018F). Install this font in Windows. Then, in Edge, go to Settings...Appearance...Customise fonts. Change the Sans-serif font setting to the newly installed font.

Is it OK to mention a suitable font here? I have found that Aroania displays all the characters correctly, and moreover is freely available to download for personal use. (I have no connection to this product.) Google's Noto Sans Symbol2 also does the trick.

I hope this helps someone to view all the characters correctly, without all the hassle I've had today to sort this out on my computer. StefanosPavlos (talk) 17:45, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

5
Please, change Π to 𐅃. 217.117.125.83 (talk) 18:25, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Interesting Geek (talk) 23:32, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Please, change in all numerals. 217.117.125.83 (talk) 13:55, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. This continues to be pretty unclear. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:39, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

Draft:Attic numerals
Please, do edits from the draft. 217.117.125.83 (talk) 17:19, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. --Ferien (talk) 17:44, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
 * @Ferien: What is unclear? 217.117.125.83 (talk) 07:56, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Edit requests should be in change X to Y format. Thanks, --Ferien (talk) 07:59, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
 * @Ferien: OK, change the article to the draft. But I believe that you have understood my request before this reply. 217.117.125.83 (talk) 08:02, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Perhaps it would be more clear if you went to https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Draft:Attic_numerals&action=history and used the compare revisions tool to show exactly which of your edits you want done and also explain why Cannolis (talk) 12:26, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 July 2023
Just some simple comma formatting in the table GabeNugget (talk) 14:33, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate.  — Paper9oll  (🔔 • 📝)  14:39, 17 July 2023 (UTC)