Talk:Augusta National Golf Club

Conservative viewpoint
Okay, okay, this article is young and uncomprehensive. But the first thing a conservative will see lacking is any mention of the saturation coverage of Augusta National's policy towards women members by the New York Times, which has become a canonical example of its Liberal media bias.


 * If you'd like to add a section to the article about its controversial membership policy, of course feel free. My mention of the commercial-free broadcast of The Masters was added specifically to touch on the subject.  I'd suggest, however, that it should be focused more on the golf club itself and less on liberal media bias.  Dmleach 15:08, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

I agree, if for no other reason than Martha Burke's protest turned out to be one of the most ineffectual in history.--Buckboard 11:32, 7 June 2006 (UTC) " and barred black golfers from the Masters Tournament until Lee Elder participated in 1975. " - Wow, this is horribly wrong. While all participants in the Masters are invited, they have to qualify first. No black man was 'barred' that had qualified first.

Hello: I am new to this edit. However, I hope by adding the policy towards blacks and women, I did not step out of line. While Augusta is a magnificent club, it seems to have a cloud of exclusion over it. wcg

Does anyone know if Augusta National membership is open to people of Jewish faith? 12.36.128.73 (talk) 19:33, 3 April 2009 (UTC) Otis P. Nixon

The additional commentary on the 2010 Chairman's Press Conference about "The rest of the world, shortly afterwards, agreed that this moral judgement towards Tiger Woods, re-affirmed the Augusta National Golf Club as the most racist and bigoted institution in sport." should be removed. The linked sports editorial contains nothing about the "moral judgement towards Tiger Woods". BaronVonHawkeye 11 April 2010. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.20.191.159 (talk) 18:58, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

The current sentence stating that Augusta refused to admit black members until 1990 is quite a liberal interpretation of the source to which that information is attributed. The original article states only that the first black member was admitted in 1990, and provides no evidence of any club policy against admitting black members prior to that time.

Holes
As we have the names of each hole, could someone make a chart giving the par and approximate yardage for each? I think it would add to the article. -R. fiend 15:34, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

We need a scorecard template.--Buckboard 11:39, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Does anybody know if Augusta National has any Jewish members? 12.36.128.73 (talk) 19:32, 3 April 2009 (UTC)Otis P. Nixon

In answer to your question, Otis...yes, the Augusta National has several Jewish members. I grew up close to Augusta and lived there for many years, and was occasionally able to borrow tickets from one of the Jewish members because I went to school with one of his daughters. The membership at Augusta National consists of people in two main categories: Long-time businessmen (especially from the east Georgia and west South Carolina areas), whose parents/grandparents joined the club during the first few years of its existence. (Up until the late 1940's it was not as exclusive, nor as pretigious...though the association with Bobby Jones was a big attraction.) Most of the Jewish members are this type, who own and run area businesses started by their fathers and grandfathers, who helped build the club into what it is today. And the other main group of members are the wealthy and important people who first started joining when President Eisenhower became a regular at the club. After that, the membership became rather exclusive and prestigious, and soon there was a large group of members who were invited to join because they were Board Chairmen or CEO's of some of the largest companies in the country. A few more of the Jewish members are in that category, CEO's of large international corporations. There are also a few members who were invited to join because of their connection with sports in the area. It's no secret that both Lou Holtz and Steve Spurrier are members of the club. They were both invited to join because they were head football coach at the University of South Carolina, just 60 miles up the road in Columbia, SC. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.71.87.122 (talk) 19:57, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Eisenhower tree
Thank you so much, anonymous user! I've read from a few sources that Roberts immediately adjourned the meeting after Ike's request, but never why. I'm glad someone that understood what happened took the time to add that clarification (12/14/05 revision). --Dmleach 23:12, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Amen Corner
I've pasted in the content of a stub about Amen Corner, but it was inconsistent with this article, so I have requested citations for both theories. Scranchuse 15:36, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

More pictures would make this page much better

Membership section and POV
"By 2009, no woman had been admitted to Augusta National, and the International Olympic Committee, upon considering golf as an Olympic sport in 2016, re-examed whether the sport itself fits the goal of a "sport practiced without discrimination with a spirit of friendship, solidarity and fair play."

The above quote has nothing to do with the Augusta National Golf Club or its membership convroversy, and should be deleted.

"The club has women on its membership waiting list, but will not allow them to circumvent the regular membership process to appease those outside the club."

As has been documented in Golf Digest, Curt Samson's book The Masters and other places, ANGC has no waiting list. membseship is by invitation only. this should be deleted.

This is always going the most contentious section of the article. For my part, I don't have a strong opinion on whether or not the club should admit women. I think it's sad that they don't, but I think it's their right not to. I say this now because I don't want anyone to think I'm pulling out POV speech because I disagree with it.

I removed the following text from the section because there are no references. If anyone can find citations to back it up, feel free to add it back with the reference:
 * "(a very low number considering both the unmatched quality of the golf course and the vast wealth of many of the club's members)." A good reference would be the membership fees for other, similarly prestigious and well-known country clubs.  At any rate "unmatched quality" and "vast wealth" have no place in the article.
 * "The present chairman of the Club, William "Billy" Payne, has maintained the position that the club is private and holds the right to determine who the members are with no regard to sex, creed, or race of a prospective member of the club." In fact, I found just the opposite; Payne is taking the "high road" approach every chairman other than Hootie Johnson took and is saying nothing.  If you can find a real quote, add it back with a reference.

I removed the following text from the section because it's POV:
 * "...non-policy policy against..." Replaced with "lack of female membership"
 * "...led to a huge public row..." Replaced with "received national attention"
 * "...the little-known [NCWO]..." Removed, no reason to have it
 * "The club's official reply, from then-chairman Hootie Johnson, was that the club would not be told how to run its own affairs by an outsider, especially not "at the point of a bayonet."" Seems more relevant to an article about Hootie Johnson and how he handled the protests.  This is the one edit I'm willing to admit I may have swung too far the other way on.
 * "As the controversy has died down, commercials resumed in 2005 with sponsorship by ExxonMobil, IBM and AT&T." Removed, it's minutia

--Dmleach 14:01, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Amen Corner and non-encyclopedic text
I removed the following text from the Amen Corner section:

Amen Corner is legendary amongst golfing enthusiasts, both amateur and professional alike. The scenic view of blooming azaleas during Augusta National's hosting of The PGA Masters Tournament each spring in early April has become ceremonial rite for ladies and gentleman to include in business, social, educational, civic, community and even religious interactions. During the 2006 televised broadcast of 'The Masters', simultaneous live webcasting was available which  seamlessly and prodigiously linked past and present, tradition and technology, grace and honor. The privacy of any golf club or golfing community is likened to the privacy of prayer, a sacred communion between earthly humanity and divine inspiration. Augusuta's 'Amen Corner' may have been inked by a sports writer; but in golf as in life The Amen Corner has deep roots in the tried and true hearts of fervent worshipers who have served, survived, sacrificed in steadfast faith and hope through generations in America. Although G.O.L.F. at one time demurely denoted Gentleman Only Ladies Forbidden, today all golfers who have experienced AUGUSTA'S AMEN CORNER know without doubt that G.O.L.F. confidently connotes God Our Loving Father. Amen Corner is not only legendary, it is eternal. It's a lovely essay, and I'd encourage the user to place it on his or her personal page, but it really doesn't have any place in an encyclopedic article. --Dmleach 17:04, 14 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I re-removed it. It had come back in this form:

Amen Corner is legendary amongst golfing enthusiasts, both amateur and professional alike. During the 2006 Masters tournament there was live internet coverage from 'Amen Corner' via webcamera and webcasting. The scenic view of blooming azaleas during The PGA Masters Golf Tournament each April is ceremonial rite for gentleman and ladies. Now with broadcasting and webcasting, a wider audience has opportunity to enjoy both the game and sport of golf, along with the history and traditions of golf. The privacy of any sports club or golfing community is likened to the privacy of prayer--a sacred communion between humanity and divinity. Augusta National's 'Amen Corner' is a divinely inspired and impeccably tended sanctuary. Like so many other national cornerstones, the amen corner is a deeply rooted American passage. At one time G.O.L.F. may have exclusively denoted Gentleman Only Ladies Forbidden, however, each individual who has experienced AUGUSTA'S AMEN CORNER knows that G.O.L.F. humbly harkens God Our Loving Father. In the words of the legendary Texas gentleman and golfer, Lord Byron Nelson, "Amen Corner is like heaven here on earth."
 * Agreed with the above reasoning, it doesn't belong in the article. Carl Lindberg 17:22, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Faldo/Wogan incident
Might be worth adding that the club took action against Nick Faldo after he let British chat show hoast Terry Wogan try on his green jacket. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Djarra (talk • contribs) 15:00, 9 April 2007 (UTC).

Membership fees
An anonymous editor (maybe correctly) changed the fees from $250,000 to $500,000 to $25,000 to $50,000. The former seems ridiculous, but I'll leave it to someone else to determine which is correct. - Dudesleeper Talk  15:47, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Need Sources tags
These tags are a bit gratuitous given the secrecy of the Augusta National. Membership lists, initiation fees and so on are generally not disclosed by the club and so remain educated or secondhand speculation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hughespj (talk • contribs) 16:26, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
 * The site looks pretty well sourced at this point. Unless anyone objects, I'll remove the "needs sources" hatnote. PRRfan (talk) 21:09, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

Access to Crow's Nest
One part of Crow's Nest section says it can be reached only by ladder, and another says it can be reached by a narrow flight of stairs. I deleted both since they contradict each other.--NCDane (talk) 21:49, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Copyright Controversy
There's no mention of the legal controversies as the National tried to copyright the phrases "Home of the Masters" and even the words "Augusta" and "Golf," successfully retaining only the phrase "Home of the Masters." There's quite a bit of reliable media information sources about this. Much like the Martha Burk controversy, it was a pretty notable event in the history of the club and the tournament, especially in the context of the Augusta area where it is still a somewhat sensitive topic. 205.219.133.1 (talk) 02:57, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

???
does anyone know who this hole is named after?? its homework.?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.102.178.145 (talk) 01:29, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 * This belongs at the reference desk. Anyway, this article is about an entire course, not a hole. If you're talking about the name of the course, that's is the city it's in. If you happen to be talking about the famous Rae's Creek, it's named after former property owner John Rae.  B zw ee bl  (talk • contribs) 22:25, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Appearances in video games
This course is also present in Tiger Woods PGA Tour 13. It should be added to the article. I'm not familiar with this language version of Wikipedia, so I write it here. If it hasn't been added in a few days, I will do my best to add it myself. 85.224.184.123 (talk) 13:19, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Culture
The article says: "Augusta National Golf Club is known to be a socially traditional institution." Could someone knowledgeable and objective flesh out this section? What does "socially traditional" mean in this context? (Is it just a reference to attire? Is it being implied that Augusta National is in some respects today 'more traditional' than most golf clubs?)  An example or two would be helpful. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:301:77DA:6210:E0DE:ACC6:F697:4AE (talk) 00:10, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

Augusta National Construction
The Thompson Cabin and the Firestone Cabins were built by Garren Construction Co.. A local residential home building company specializing in high end custom homes in and around Augusta, Ga. The company consisted of two brothers, Jimmy Garren and J. Kearns Garren. They also remodeled several of the other existing cabins over a period of years. They also added second story covered porches on the famed Eisenhower and Butler cabins. They constructed the scoring entrance into the lower floor of the clubhouse also. 2601:100:8180:4D50:A025:5038:675:C21D (talk) 22:44, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

Bad Map
Someone needs to fix the map on the article page. The current map shows the club being Western North Carolina, and not in Augusta Georgia where it is.