Talk:Automotive industry/Archive 4

Top vehicle manufacturing groups (by volume)
This table isnt as the source says, it has been changed all the time, it should be locked as the source says. Otherwise it is needeng more sources and the intro should be changed also "The table is ranked by the latest production figures from OICA 2007" --Typ932 T&middot;C 17:53, 5 March 2009 (UTC)


 * The current data is from the 2008 end of year, but I agree with you, the prose should state that the data is from an 'end of year' data source. 78.32.143.113 (talk) 10:17, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

List updated
I've updated the list, based on the OICA reference, but using the current situation. Porsche owns a majority stake in the Volkswagen Group, making all marques subsidiaries of Porsche (see Porsche official website). Toyota has a controlling stake in Daihatsu and Hino, as mentioned in the list. And Hyundai and Kia have merged several years ago. I've also added all marques from the companies in the list, using the respective wikipedia sites. Schalkcity (talk) 18:51, 5 March 2009 (UTC)


 * The main article differs also from this list List of top automotive manufacturing groups  Typ932 T&middot;C 19:01, 5 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Don't forget also to cite reliable references for all the changes that you have made. For example, cite a reference confirming that Kia is indeed a subsidiary of Hyundai.  Wikipedia policy insists that all information is verifiable, see WP:VER. -- de Facto (talk). 19:03, 5 March 2009 (UTC)


 * References added for the following 3 points: Toyota controls Daihatsu and Hino; Porsche controls Volkswagen; Hyundai and Kia have merged into one company. All the references come from the official sites of Toyota, Porsche and Hyundai Kia. Schalkcity (talk) 19:55, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Porsche / Volkswagen naming
Many edits are made concerning Porsche and Volkswagen. Let's maintain a standard. In the current situation, Porsche Automobil Holding SE owns more than 50% of the shares of the Volkswagen Group. By mid 2011, Volkswagen Group will have a majority of the shares of the new company 'Volkswagen Group', which will include the Porsche marque. So until Volkswagen acquires Porsche, I think it is correct to name the company as Porsche Automobil Holding SE. Schalkcity (talk) 13:31, 28 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Care to cite your sources? I am led to believe that Porsche SE has been selling its shares back to Volkswagen AG (VWAG).  And based on the latest developments, there will be a virtual parity between Porsche SE and VWAG - with VWAG intending to own 49.9% of Porsche, and Porsche owning 50.1% of VWAG - and that a new top-tier holding company will be created, something like "Integrated Automotive Group".  Info here  We should no more after 3 December 2009.  78.32.143.113 (talk) 10:15, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
 * At the moment Porsche Automobile Holding SE does own over 50% of VW (as well as of Porsche AG) while VW owns less than 50% of the former, so PAH SE should properly be listed as the parent company. This information is readily confirmed by the respective companies' investor relations sites. Tomh009 (talk) 03:11, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The articles for Porsche, Volkswagen, and Volkswagen Group all need to be revisited. At the moment, there are actually four distinct entities, as there are the holding companies "Volkswagen Group" and "Porsche SE", and the brands "Porsche" and "Volkswagen." Porsche SE owns >50% of Volkswagen Group, which in turn owns 100% of Volkswagen (the brand), 99% of Audi, and 49% of Porsche (the brand), with Porshe SE owning the remainder of the Porsche brand. 65.166.89.2 (talk) 14:09, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Volkswagen just (December 2009) bought a 49.9% stake in Porsche, for 3.9 billion. So Volkswagen Group owns 49.9% of Porsche AG, 100% of Volkswagen AG, >99% of Audi AG. Porsche SE owns >50% of Volkswagen Group and 50.1% of Porsche AG. Mid-2011 a new entity will be formed, also called Volkswagen Group, with 90% of the shares of Porsche AG (the remaining 10% are in hands of Qatar Holding). Qatar Holding also has rights to buy 20% of the new Volkswagen Group. Schalkcity (talk) 14:37, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
 * In the future, after the merger has been completed, the Piech and Porsche families will have a 30% stake in the new 'Volkswagen Group' (incl. Porsche), the German state of Lower Saxony will have a 20% +1 share stake and Qatar Holding will have a 20% -1 share stake. The remaining 30% will be freely available on the stock markets . Schalkcity (talk) 14:52, 8 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Under German company law, Porsche would need to exceed 80% of VWAGs shares before it can legally be declared the 'owner' of VWAG - so Porsche do NOT own Volkswagen AG (just like VWAG do not 'own' Scania, even though VWAG have something like 70% of Scanias shares). --78.32.143.113 (talk) 11:14, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Pontiac and Saturn
Given that production has ceased some time ago for these two brands, should they be removed from the table? Tomh009 (talk) 03:34, 21 December 2009 (UTC)