Talk:Aydın Sayılı

Speedy candidate
This article, as it is currently written, is probably a candidate for WP:SPEEDY #7:

The article currently only states that he is a historian of science who studied under a prominent historian of science, lists one book he wrote (and, by mere footnote, that he has published a single article in a journal). It says nothing about why this historian of science is notable -- e.g. that new ideas he came up with, or books he wrote, were widely acclaimed -- or alternatively caused controversy. I don't want to nominate this article for deletion, as I suspect the topic may well turn out to be notable (which is why I purposefully didn't use template:notability) -- but will if the bare bedrock minimum of Speedy A7/template:importance aren't met. HrafnTalkStalk 09:32, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
 * The reference in the Isis journal is a Eulogy written by another historian. It's an independent, reliable source: not written by Sayili as Hrafn tries to claim.  --Firefly322 (talk) 15:51, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * My apologies, I misread the citation. But if this is a four page eulogy, then why can't you say anything more about him than that he once studied under a famous professor? This does not assert notability. Hundreds of thousands of students have studied under famous professors. A good number of these have gone on to publish at least one book. The article states no "reasonable indication of why it might be notable." HrafnTalkStalk 16:18, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

I would also point out to anybody responding to Firefly322's premature WP:3 that (i) there are three opinions already (his, mine & that of Thomas.macmillan who speedied the article) & (ii) that I have already retracted the peripheral erroneous point that Firefly322 is asking for a third opinion on. However, if you'd like to stick around and venture an opinion on whether the article currently articulates a claim to notability, you'd be welcome. HrafnTalkStalk 16:29, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * A reference to a eulogy, written by an independent peer, in a leading peer-reviewed journal is one of the strongest assertions of notability that I could imagine for a stub. I believe, once understood, this Eulogy is enough for a stub article. Expansion would be nice and I would hope that sooner or later another editor would want to write more about him. In the meantime anyone is welcome to click on the eulogy and read it (at least the first few paragraphs, which is all I can read at the moment too). --Firefly322 (talk) 16:35, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * No. References do not assert notability. They merely verify assertions that are made (per WP:CITE). An article that merely states "Jack Smith was an American" does not assert notability (as there are millions of Americans) -- whether it is cited to a three thousand page biography or to a one line blog entry. WP:SPEEDY #7 explicitly states this: "This is distinct from questions of verifiability and reliability of sources". HrafnTalkStalk 17:24, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Statement seems kind of harsh. Tends towards sense ofWP:TRUTH about what's right and what's wrong. --Firefly322 (talk) 02:18, 11 August 2008 (UTC)


 * No. Accusing me of being a "troll" and repeatedly accusing me of being "evil" is "harsh" (as well as being repeated violation of WP:NPA. This was merely a blunt and to-the-point restatement of an important aspect of the relevant policy that you had repeatedly failed to grasp. HrafnTalkStalk 03:47, 11 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I've added a sentence that links to Mustafa Kemal Atatürk. Hope that helps. --Firefly322 (talk) 16:43, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * The Mustafa Kemal Atatürk connection does assert a smidgeon of notability, but the article really should state what he did that made him memorable. If all he did with his life was impress Ataturk when he was a boy & study under a famous professor, and write a single book (unless that book was particularly famous -- which, if true, needs to be stated) then it is highly unlikely that ISIS would have bothered with a 4-page eulogy. So what was it that he's remembered for? HrafnTalkStalk 17:24, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I've removed the speedy notice. I have access to JSTOR and will eventually go in and expand the article. However, there is an assertion of notability.--Thomas.macmillan (talk) 17:12, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks. HrafnTalkStalk 17:28, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment suggests WP:OWNERSHIP perspective. --Firefly322 (talk) 02:18, 11 August 2008 (UTC)


 * roflmao -- WP:POT to the n-th power. HrafnTalkStalk 03:47, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

I have added one of the many books written by Sayili. It is in turkish, this seems to be what Hrafn and other users wanted to have in the article, or am I not right? You all can look in any online-catalogue and find many works. But maybe this here is a game, not an encyclopedia. --R. la Rue (talk) 21:00, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

More sources
Was looking at this as a 3O candidate, and I can't say I'm pleased to be here. Yes, Hrafn is right, there is a third editor involved, who does appear to be supporting Firefly322's status, so this no longer qualified for a 3O. Furthermore, I would find it hard pressed to call myself neutral with respect to Hrafn, and I suspect he might agree.

Still, here's what I can contribute: shows things like this, this, and this, among 756 others, and all of the initial couple pages of references appear to be to this person or someone in a remarkably similar field.

Were I rendering a 3O, I would say the article needs expansion for notability, but the subject seems clearly notable, and that per WP:DEL when a subject has notability and the article lacks it, expansion is appropriate. Since the article is already tagged as a stub, a cleanup tag indicating the need for expansion would be redundant. Jclemens (talk) 05:52, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

External links modified
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