Talk:BRICS/Archive 1

Can't throw BRICS at PIGS
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/09/201192292011236419.html Nor was Russia; Moscow, via Arkady Dvorkovich, President Dmitry Medvedev’s chief economic adviser, stated flat out the Europeans must come up with a clear strategy for rescuing the PIGS (Portugal, Ireland and Italy, Greece, Spain) before Moscow starts buying more eurozone bonds.


 * Sounds like a plan for inaction to me, but it's worth looking into after the BRICS meeting at the G20 next week. Hcobb (talk) 22:09, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

potential resource
[http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/136539/karen-brooks/is-indonesia-bound-for-the-brics Is Indonesia Bound for the BRICs? How Stalling Reform Could Hold Jakarta Back] by Karen Brooks, November/December 2011 99.19.44.155 (talk) 14:05, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Wrong concept
BRICS is not an international organization, cause it has no any juridical identity. BRICS, in the same way than BRIC, is just the name that a group of countries receives due the share of common characteristics.

I'm gonna correct this mistake. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.219.44.179 (talk) 13:59, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

I edit also the mistake about the join of South Africa to the BRIC group. It is NOT any official or formal join, cause it is not a Organization. It just can be that South Africa is being considered as part of the reality that is describeb by the BRIC concept.

BRIC is just a concept for describing a group of countries that share a set of common characteristics, not a organization, not a institution, not a formal association.

So, therefore, South Africa cannot oficially join anything that officially doesn't exist. South Africa can be invited (as it was) to a meeting celebrated by the members that participates in this definition. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.219.44.179 (talk) 14:09, 16 May 2012 (UTC)


 * It's quite obvious that you have not actually read this article or the BRIC article. BRICS is a real organisation that was founded as a response to the BRIC theory. Try doing some reading before adverising your ignorance to the world. Roger (talk) 17:17, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

With the possible exception of Russia
In the first paragraph it stated that "with the possible exception of Russia, the BRICS members are all developing or newly industrialized countries, but they are distinguished by their large, fast-growing economies". The source for that Russia is an exception is a link to the Russian MFA website that "Russia along with other developed countries reaffirmed the pledges to provide aid to developing countries". Grammatically, it doesn't state that Russia is not a developed country. For example, when a guy says: "me and the other guys will go to the restaurant", this doesn't mean that the speaker is not a guy.  A.h. king  • Talk to me!  18:39, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Exactly – the point is that the source considers Russia to be a developed country, whereas the other BRICS countries are unquestionably developing countries. – Michaelmas1957 (talk) 19:00, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

the $100 billion fund
there isn't anything about the fund, which is probably the first material step taken by the BRICS to showcase their importance in today's world. Something should be there.. http://in.reuters.com/article/2013/10/11/g20-brics-fund-idINL6N0I13N720131011
 * Does it actually exist yet?
 * If I had a dollar for every time a BRICS government announced about a big investment, I'd have enough cash to, um, make some big investments of my own. bobrayner (talk) 14:35, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

____________________________________________________
 * It should be created by March, according to Brazil's Finance Minister Guido Mantega...

http://in.reuters.com/article/2013/10/10/us-brazil-economy-mantega-idINBRE9990WR20131010 Rishab (talk) 10:34, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

GDP (PPP) calculations
Total of GDP(PPP) for BRICS does not equal the sum of the individual countries because the source includes more accurate numbers which are truncated in the infobox for space. The actual number from the source are (source): I originally put 34371, but that was a typo. Thank you to for catching that. EvergreenFir (talk) 03:25, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Nice work. bobrayner (talk) 12:23, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

Statement of the Governor of the Russian Central Bank
In the Developments section, a statement of the Governor of the Russian Central Bank, Elvira Nabiullina, is reported in quotation marks: ''"BRICS partners the establishment of a system of multilateral swaps that will allow to transfer resources to one or another country, if needed" ''

However in the same phrase it is also quoted the conclusion of the article where this statement was extracted: "If the current trend continues, soon the dollar will be abandoned by most of the significant global economies and it will be kicked out of the global trade finance. Washington's bullying will make even former American allies choose the anti-dollar alliance instead of the existing dollar-based monetary system."

This is misleading because it leads the reader to think that the second quoted text is also part of the statement of the Governor though it is not.

--99.246.50.162 (talk) 05:34, 3 August 2014 (UTC) Luca

Criticism section
How is the statement "In 2012, Hu Jintao, who at the time was President of China, described the BRICS countries as defenders and promoters of developing countries and a force for world peace." a criticism? Shouldn't this be removed? Snow333 (talk) 14:55, 1 March 2015 (UTC)


 * You're right, it doesn't sound critical, but I don't think it should be removed from the article altogether. Instead, to promote non-POV, I renamed the section to "Reception". 129.67.156.156 (talk) 14:45, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Millions or Billions?
Foreign-exchange reserves of the BRICS members are presented in the table in form: $ bn So I understand it is in Billions of US$ => China's assets are:

3,899,285,000,000,000 US$

(or even to 3,899,285,000,000,000,000 US$, because we have the unfortunate dual short/wide scale meaning of word 'Billion', so I would NEVER use 'bn')

After checking on another wiki page I would say it is in fact

3,899,285,000,000 US$

In other words it is in Millions of US$. I know people do not usually care about actual values behind numbers like these when reading daily news, but I think it should be fixed here. I do not know how about the other columns, I was not interested in them...

In any case I propose to write units into the header row and do not to repeat them in each table column cell. Thanks.

Eltwarg (talk) 22:26, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Definition of 'Literacy'
It would be interesting to establish how the CIA determines the levels of literacy in the world.

To state that South Africans have a 93% literacy level is highly questionable. There may be a narrow age band of citizens who are 93% literate, but to claim 93% for the entire country is irresponsible and appears to be a thumb-suck.

197.88.26.53 (talk) 08:45, 14 July 2015 (UTC)Bruce Liddell


 * I don't is exactly falls into the scope of this article, but it is interesting nonetheless. There might be an article about it that we can link to. Aryamanaroratalk, contribs 20:54, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Describing Temer as president of Brazil
Rather than edit war on whether Temer should be described as president of Brazil, please contribute to Talk:President of Brazil Yaris678 (talk) 14:36, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

bnjnjbh — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.214.117.119 (talk) 08:28, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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Geography
Is the geography section really needed? It doesn't seem directly relevant to the article's subject. पदाति (talk) 12:29, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

Expand the intro
The introduction section needs to be expanded with a few lines explaining what BRICS is and how it came to be established as a response to the Goldman Sachs BRIC thesis. A simple statement just saying it is an international organisation is inadequate. Roger (talk) 09:39, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

While I agree with you, the BRIC theory has been written about in the BRIC page and sufficient mention of the page can be seen in this page, so it should not be necessary. Rishab (Talk) 13:22, 19 January 2014(UTC) Why are we not to confuse BRICS With BRIC but can do vice versa? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.105.95.101 (talk) 15:27, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

GDP and export
BRICS is collaborating to augment export and import to maximize GDP in high potential developing countries to broaden the local basket to include many quality items for household and food consumption. First world income BRICS will provide a new first world life based on daily life quality, food quality and solidarity! Central supply units will equally distribute final products to BRICS countries based on initial agricultural merit! 94.225.153.245 (talk) 13:58, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

GDP PPP entry for South Africa and Averages & Precision Comments
Minor edit: GDP PPP 2023 entry for South Africa was 990,030, which is in millions. Changed to billions. See List of countries by GDP PPP.

The Average entry in all columns are different from Total / 5. The GDP PPP average, for example, would be 10,234 instead of 8,119.9. Editing these entries may require further research into the original references. I have not done it.

Also, one should be aware of the excessive number of significant digits in some entries, which impacts clarity. For example, when listing values in hundreds of billions (using billion units), one should use integer numbers @ Llsouza (talk) 15:31, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

My edit of adding an map to show applicants and countries which has express their interest needs to look nicer
I made the map due to me wanting to visualize it and I am good with knowing where countries are and so it was easy for me especially since I already know how to us AI and inkscape but I am not sure how to marge it properly or the colors to really use. I just use blue since that was already in use. Perhaps it needs to be merged with the previous map but that is for current members only. Not sure to do. Mathsquare (talk) 03:08, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

Chairman instead of President.
It would be accurate to call Mr. Xi Jinping Chairman instead of president because he is the chairman of the CCP as he leads the politburo in Beijing and there are no presidential elections in China. KamiSama502 (talk) 23:09, 25 July 2023 (UTC)


 * He actually has that title but it's means something else than what most people imagine. It's actually is a different position he hold.  A better title would be general secretary since that is his highest rank and is de facto the highest rank in the country similar to all of the "Marxist-Leninist" "socialist" governments out there.  In quotations since if you had ever study ML theory or economics systems then clearly they are all capitalists. Mathsquare (talk) 03:11, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

teal and cyan? really?
how are we supposed to distinguish the two without being an art major? food for thought Camdoodlebop (talk) 12:42, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Map still wrong
The United Arab Emirates aren't marked as Cyan while all the other new members are 176.230.45.215 (talk) 07:27, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 August 2023 (2)
Fix the map to include the United Arab Emirates as one of the new members (give it the light blue color) Aammii (talk) 07:35, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ M.Bitton (talk) 14:04, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 August 2023
Change the color scheme for the map please. I cannot understand this color scheme of teal, cyan and “light cyan” in the same map. Please apply contrasting color shades to signify different information, thanks. 74.135.2.33 (talk) 00:45, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Pictogram voting wait.svg Already done It appears the map in question has either been replaced or removed since this edit request was made. – Recoil16 (talk) 10:38, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 August 2023
Please change the following text:
 * it would be comprised by challengers to the Western-led international that "in the order the scale of GDP, now collectively outweigh not only the reigning hegemon, the United States, but the entire G-7 weight class put together."

To read as follows:
 * it would be comprised by challengers to the Western-led international order that "on the scale of GDP, now collectively outweigh not only the reigning hegemon, the United States, but the entire G-7 weight class put together."

The current quotation is not only ungrammatical and confusing (I did a double-take, trying to parse it as "in order to scale" or something), but it's also not the original quote, which can be verified by searching on Google or your favorite search engine. The original is the version with "on the scale". 98.170.164.88 (talk) 04:00, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅  — Paper9oll  (🔔 • 📝)  05:55, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

More countries are interested joining BRICS
According to web https://www.silkroadbriefing.com/news/2022/11/09/the-new-candidate-countries-for-brics-expansion/, countries like Peru, Ecuador, Panama Costa Rica, Guatemala, Chile, Mongolia, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan are interested of joining BRICS. Alphaire (talk) 10:17, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

Another Attack, From a Media Hack
The "challenge BRICS presents to the established world order seems destined to failure" and that the organisation's "realistic purpose has been to bolster China's bid for global domination". He went on to say that the "West has a unique opportunity to forge a new strategic alliance. India's real adversary is China, not the West, which makes an absurdity of its continued membership of BRICS. Far better to tempt India into the West's embrace...". Con Coughlin, defence and foreign affairs editor at The Daily Telegraph

Give such underhanded tactics - used against attempts to challenge the US world order - is it not more important that Wikipedia reports this event in a balanced and objective way? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.147.153.126 (talk) 20:58, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

Mexico
I can't find a source that Mexico has applied (but I see a lot of internet buzz). I see Mexico was deleted a few days ago for this reason, but it is back today. what is going on? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fogonthedowns (talk • contribs) 02:45, 25 March 2023 (UTC)


 * This is right. Actually, the president of Mexico has confirmed Mexico is not interested. This map is misleading and this Wikipedia page has been hijacked to push an fake agenda 2A00:23C4:CE32:1401:E5D7:D23A:6388:5EAE (talk) 11:28, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I will fix it. I got the source form the article. Mathsquare (talk) 04:04, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

Im not sure if Uruguay and Bangladesh are added.
I only saw Argentina, Ethiopia, UAE,Egypt, Iran and Saudi Arabia. Khonziwe (talk) 14:40, 31 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Come form the article for the map. Mathsquare (talk) 04:04, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

Addition of Indonesia to the BRICS
The SVG maps for country members, applicants and potential members has Indonesia colored in "Applicant" candidate. It is proposed to include Indonesia in the BRICS. There are quite ample references. 110.235.217.54 (talk) 09:10, 10 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Fixed Mathsquare (talk) 00:18, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

"Global South" expansion?
Just an observation, but taking Argentina out, the expansion becomes much more obviously about the middle east san Ethiopia, which is regionally adjacent. Think BRICS meets OPEC+ power dynamic. Doyna Yar (talk) 21:55, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Request to undo inaccurate info by OnManorama news in BRICS article
Hi, BRICS article admin,

Need your help to undo inaccurate info in BRICS article because the page is currently semi-protected.

Pakistan has not officially applied for BRICS membership, but only expressed interest. The report by India OnManorama news saying that Pakistan was blocked by India from joining BRICS is inaccurate.

Please help to undo the following edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=BRICS&diff=next&oldid=1172053130

The accurate info is listed under "Countries that have applied for membership" section. Thanks Thesidewalker11 (talk) 08:42, 25 August 2023 (UTC)


 * ✅ it makes no sense to state that Pakistan was prevented from joining when it hasn't even applied for membership. M.Bitton (talk) 10:21, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello,

So I suppose the map now would need to be updated? - Adding Pakistan as an official applicant https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/24/pakistan-seeks-brics-membership-despite-india-roadblock — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.140.76.201 (talk) 09:26, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Map needs update
Hi, Argentina's Milei confirmed that Argentina will NOT join BRICS. Sources: (Source 1, in Spanish) (Source 2, in English) CoryGlee (talk) 09:18, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * The President has stated that he is not in favour of joining BRICS. It is the Congress of Argentina which has the final say. This is called democracy. 182.239.152.216 (talk) 04:24, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Argentina
Javier Milei has taken office. Why isn't the map updated when it has long been requested? 190.246.97.81 (talk) 22:12, 10 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Updated to indicate what? Please expand on your request. (If you are hinting that the view of the President overrides the view of the Congress of Argentina, that remains to be seen; we will know on 1 January.) 182.239.152.216 (talk) 05:47, 16 December 2023 (UTC)


 * It is a bureaucratic delay to update the map, Argentina won't join. I hope the map is updated on Jan. 1. Cheers! --CoryGlee (talk) 11:52, 27 December 2023 (UTC)


 * You have heard an official announcement by the Government of Argentina? If so, source please. Not a politician making some claim in the press, an official government statement. The map at 28DEC23 depicts Argentina in dark blue, that being the colour of a member state - it should currently be light blue as an invitee state for 01JAN24. 182.239.148.125 (talk) 05:16, 28 December 2023 (UTC)


 * It's sourced under "Previous applicants" and one map has been updated. There will be plenty of sources as of Diana Mondino announcing that Argentina has rejected this invitation. Cheers! 190.246.97.81 (talk) 08:24, 28 December 2023 (UTC)


 * At the time of "the announcement" - i.e. a comment to a newspaper on 30NOV23 - she was not holding the position of FM, but as an economist expected to be appointed. That still does not make it an official statement by the Government of Argentina. We work on facts here - its an encyclopedia. 182.239.148.125 (talk) 03:00, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Yup, facts. They will be available in a few days. Cheers! LoL. 190.246.97.81 (talk) 08:25, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi again. Is this the source so much required to update the maps? (BBC News) 190.246.97.81 (talk) 17:24, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I think so, it is a reliable source which indicates a formal letter has been received. Due process is important. Unclear why you would need to "LoL", apart from lack of respect for another point of view. 182.239.148.125 (talk) 04:47, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Can we at least fake impartiality?
BRICS has received both praise and criticism from numerous commentators.

Can we raise above the MSM media where everything they don't like is "controversial"? EU and NATO also have their critics (not only outsiders, but also from member states). Why don't we add to their wiki pages this kind of remarks? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.26.255.6 (talk) 03:35, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Carbon Foot Print
Another impressive statistic alongside population, landmass and GDP, is the share of Fossil Co2 emmissions of the world. The Current BRICS member countries are responsible for 51.78% of the total Fossil CO2 emissions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 185.119.156.170 (talk) 13:17, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 January 2024
Change "Founder member states' initials (in English)" To "Founder member state's and South Africa's initials (in English), since South Africa isn't a founding member 83.105.0.108 (talk) 23:04, 15 January 2024 (UTC)


 * I meant states' not state's 83.105.0.108 (talk) 23:05, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
 * But it is. Before "BRICS" it was just an informal discussion group. It became semi-formal already with SA included. 83.240.62.42 (talk) 10:08, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

head of BRICS development bank?
India will be the first Head of BRICKS development Bank represented by the leadership of Mr. Kamath — Preceding unsigned comment added by username or IP (talk • contribs) date (UTC)

Greece "interested" in membership?
So let's get this straight - of the links provided, one is a dead link, and one links to an article that is Russia inviting a debt-ridden Greece to join BRICS. Not only does the article not contain any text to support the assertion that Greece is "interested" in joining, as we all know Athens has since come out saying it is *not* interested in interacting with BRICS and the NDB. Can we get a consensus on removing the mention of Greece as an interested party? — Preceding unsigned comment added by username or IP (talk • contribs) date (UTC)

Leaders
I noticed that Mohammed bin Salman isn't listed in the leaders section. Is this intentional? SirShaunIV (talk) 23:31, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

Isn't Saudi Arabia now a member of BRICS? First section of the article, it's not there. Here are sources for Saudi being a member:

https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2024/01/29/brics-expanded-so-what-next/

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/saudi-state-tv-says-kingdom-officially-begins-membership-brics-bloc-2024-01-02/ 75.221.95.36 (talk) 04:18, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

I made and maintain the map.
If there is a country that shouldn't belong on the map of brics expansion then please let me know and I will fix it. I got the information form the BRICs article. Mathsquare (talk) 04:08, 3 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Protect the map. There are a lot of anti BRICS people trying to remove the map.
 * 138.75.6.0 (talk) 15:20, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Ok, I will do exactly that!!! Mathsquare (talk) 17:42, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
 * The whole article, not JUST the map, needs updated. The prime minister of South Africa just announced that Saudi Arabia has now officially joined BRICS (BRICS+). It's in the news from authoritative news agencies around the world on January 31/2024 and February 1/2024. See Reuters, BBC, you name it, they are all announcing this. Please update. 64.185.61.127 (talk) 14:04, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Sorry, it's the South African foreign minister who said Saudi Arabia has now officially joined BRICS. 12.233.244.107 (talk) 14:15, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 February 2024
There are 5 new countries instead of the mentioned 4, Saudi Arabia also joined BRICS along with Ethiopia, Iran, the UAE and Egypt. 174.138.221.139 (talk) 00:40, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

For anything about the BRICS expansion map
Please put it here and so I can easily see it. I am the author and maintainer of the map.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File_talk:Map_of_BRICS_members_and_other_countries_which_are_either_joining,_had_applied_to_join,_or_had_expressed_an_interest_in_joining_BRICS.svg Mathsquare (talk) 00:19, 19 September 2023 (UTC)


 * The foreign minister of South Africa announced that Saudi Arabia has now officially joined BRICS. See Reuters, Bloomburg, US News, and many other organizations from 1/31/2024 and 2/1/2024 headlines. Updates are needed! 12.233.244.107 (talk) 14:19, 1 February 2024 (UTC)


 * Saudi Arabia should be colored as Invited and Argentina as Declined. Doyna Yar (talk) 19:21, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Saudi Arabia has officially joined BRICS
Many authoritative news organizations announced that South Africa's prime Minister says Saudi Arabia has officially joined BRICS. 1/31/2024 and 2/01/2024 64.185.61.127 (talk) 13:47, 1 February 2024 (UTC)


 * It seems really flaky https://www.reuters.com/site-search/?query=BRICS — DaxServer (t · m · e · c) 13:57, 1 February 2024 (UTC)


 * Bloomberg got it wrong? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-01-31/brics-gets-boost-as-saudi-arabia-joins-group-of-emerging-nations 14.2.196.234 (talk) 23:46, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes. They took on the words of another country's minister and ran it. I don't have access to the article, but the headline is factually incorrect as reported by Reuters — DaxServer (t · m · e · c) 09:00, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

Website
The website currently in the infobox is not the BRICS website, it is the 2023 South African conference website. This is: https://infobrics.org/ 14.2.196.234 (talk) 23:51, 23 February 2024 (UTC)


 * If you have (or at least like to learn) Portuguese language knowledges, you may want to see what said at d:Talk:Q243630, which could give us why this website isn't BRICS official website either. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 09:39, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

How many countries are active in this organisation?
2402:8100:3186:D14E:3AEE:58CE:C3DF:9DC (talk) 15:14, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

'President of Russia' should be changed into 'Dictator of Russia'. Same for China
Self-explanatory. 2A02:A03F:677C:F700:8913:8031:C2F9:E2F6 (talk) 16:05, 28 June 2024 (UTC)


 * ❌ — DaxServer (t·m·e·c) 16:41, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Why? Do you deny this statement? 2A02:A03F:677C:F700:DE0C:2504:91EE:BA1D (talk) 12:21, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

BRICS members are 10
Brazil,Russia, India, China, South Africa, Eygept,Ethopia,saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Iran 118.179.166.161 (talk) 09:23, 8 April 2024 (UTC)