Talk:Barbara Bloemink

Publications
It’s my understanding that a publications list does not need footnotes if ISBN or similar identifiers are present; but the lovely formatted citations could be swapped in to make the list tidier. I started doing it but hesitated and canceled my edit, just in case those citations were intended to also be used elsewhere in the entry? If not, a thought. Innisfree987 (talk) 06:25, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Haven't gotten that far. Still working on the career overview. I agree that we don't usually use citations for publications in a list, but honestly haven't even gone through them all yet, as still working on the 2nd section. Do you have access to art journals which might give reviews of her books or curated events? SusunW (talk) 14:04, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
 * "Selected publications" may be a bit long, but it's a little eye-of-the-beholder. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:13, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
 * @SusunW, I imagine we have similar options? (ProjectMuse, JSTOR, Oxford Online, etc.) Happy to help tho it’ll be a bit before I can dig into that front. But there’s so much going in the entry that perhaps better anyway if I wait. Innisfree987 (talk) 17:25, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
 * yes, kinda busy on the article now. Almost have the career over view done. If you can get to it, fine, if not, no worries. Noted in the library search, a lot of reviews on Jstor, just haven't gotten there to pull anything yet. SusunW (talk) 17:27, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

Image
The leadimage, uploaded as "own work", is the same imdb has. That may be a problem. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:59, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks . I am no expert, but GRuban says will need to email "permissions-commons@wikimedia.org" with this statement, if she took the photograph. If someone else took the photograph, they must release it with the same language:


 * I hereby affirm that I am the owner of the exclusive copyright of the attached media work. I agree to publish the above-mentioned work under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International. I acknowledge that by doing so I grant anyone the right to use the work, even in a commercial product or otherwise, and to modify it according to their needs, provided that they abide by the terms of the license and any other applicable laws.


 * I am aware that this agreement is not limited to Wikipedia or related sites. I am aware that the copyright holder always retains ownership of the copyright as well as the right to be attributed in accordance with the license chosen. Modifications others make to the work will not be claimed to have been made by the copyright holder. I acknowledge that I cannot withdraw this agreement, and that the content may or may not be kept permanently on a Wikimedia project. (Name, date)

SusunW (talk) 14:02, 12 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Another possibility, possibly easier: barbarabloemink takes a new (as in previously unpublished) selfie, and uploads it at Upload Wizard. And then we use that. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:07, 12 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Or someone standing close to her takes the new picture and then they upload it, that works too. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:10, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, that! SusunW (talk) 14:14, 12 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Barbarabloemink (User Talk:Barbarabloemink|talk]]) SusunW Gråbergs Gråa Sång as you know I am very bad at formatting entries but I actually tried to put the photographer's name: Dorothy Handleman under the photograph instead of myself but somehow it didn't come through! can you fix it so it states that the photograph is Dorothy Handleman??  — Preceding undated comment added 16:06, 12 November 2021 (UTC)


 * That's not good enough. If you uploaded a photo taken by someone else, they have to do what SusunW says above, or it will be deleted. WP and Commons are very strict about copyright, and "fair use" doesn't apply to living people around here. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:13, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
 * That’s right. For what it’s worth, you can have Handleman use this handy release generator to donate the photo, if it’s easier than emailing: Wikimedia_VRT_release_generator. Otherwise taking a new picture as suggested above is probably easiest! Innisfree987 (talk) 17:19, 12 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Barbarabloemink (User Talk:Barbarabloemink|talk]]) SusunW Gråbergs Gråa Sång Ampimd

ok I am also uploading a picture my husband took of me at our wedding and he is happy to give his permission - his name is Michael Franklin - he filled out the release form and got this link but we don't know how to add it to the entry...?? and I have sent an email to Dorothy Handleman asking her to sign a release for the original picture. Either one is fine if that works for you and you can help upload Michael's release form and his photograph in place of the one I originally put up. THank you! Barbarabloemink (User Talk:Barbarabloemink|talk]]) 19:04, 12 November 2021 (UTC)


 * I agree with you on that, best if a new picture is taken since that would be the easiest way to sort it out. Ampimd (talk) 20:41, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Added to article, thanks. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 00:18, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

Moved section from text as cannot verify data in independent sources
Spent several hours and cannot confirm this data. Perhaps sourcing will surface at a later date, or someone searching from somewhere other than Mexico will find links to verify. SusunW (talk) 20:04, 12 November 2021 (UTC) "As an adjunct professor Bloemink has taught at the Decorative Arts Master's Program at the Parson's School of Design and the School of Visual Arts in New York City . She has given lectures on Creative Thinking at the Hague in the Netherlands; Sydney, Australia; Holon, Israel, and throughout the United States."

curator
, you have done a masterful job converting all of those refs! Thank you so much. I think I have the career part done, as I removed what couldn't be verified and what seemed promotional. On the curated shows, I think they should be in date order as that is typical and if we can find reviews from independent sources, we should use those refs. I've barely made a start on researching, but here's what I have found so far (note some of them will require that you sign in to the Wikipedia Library: I know it doesn't seem like I did a lot today, but I truly spent hours researching the educational stuff and came up mostly blank. I'll be back on it tomorrow. SusunW (talk) 23:25, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Manhattan Fantastica, 1995,,pt 1 and pt. 2 ✅
 * Croak, 1998✅
 * My Andy, 1996✅
 * Guerilla Girls, 1996This confirms that it happened, but does not mention Bloemink. Haven't found anything to tie her to the exhibit.
 * Lucero, 1996,✅
 * Boltanski, 1998 This confirms Bloemink curated it.✅
 * Shonibare, 2006This confirms it happened but not that Bloemink curated it. In fact, this see bottom right, says that Bloemink hired Shonibare as a guest curator? Explanation below. ✅
 * Ouattara Watts, ?. The link given explains who Watts is but gives no exhibition information nor link with Bloemink. I have been unable to find any article linking the two. per below
 * Contemporary Latin-American Masters: Neto, Suter & Iturbide, 1997. This says it happened, but no links to Bloemink can be found.


 * @SusunWActually the research aspect is a lot of work and since you need to read and know the content, its makes it a lot of work. Putting the curated shows in date order is in the right direction. That's great, I would look at the references and check the Wikipedia Library as well. Ampimd (talk) 23:35, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I noted that you have added events (creating an edit conflict with what I was trying to add) to the career portion. In my opinion, the curated exhibits need to be in the curated works section, so that we are not duplicating information, links, etc. If you can find information from a curated source (no blog, no social media, an actual newspaper or journal article that has been reviewed by an editor), that lists the exhibits for Guerilla Girls (1996), Shonibare (2006), Ouattara Watts (?), and Neto, Suter & Iturbide (1997) and specifically states that you curated the events, that would be helpful. Please do not insert them in the article, but post the links here, so we are not tripping over each others' fingers . Thanks! SusunW (talk) 18:56, 13 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Barbarabloemink (Barbarabloemink) I was the chief curator and the ONLY curator of the Kemper Museum and the Virginia Museum of Contemporary Art (called the Contemporary Art Center at the time) and so when an exhibition like the Lucero or James Croak retrospectives, Boltanski, Shonibare, Ouattara, Guerrila Girls poster exhibitions or the Deborah Kass exhibition took place, I was the only person who organized as there were no other curators on staff who could have organized the exhibitions! The only proof of these other than for some on the museum websites, are the exhibition pamphlets printed from the exhibitions which I can scan for you or the fact that the artists LIST them in their biographies so I try to use their biographies which mention the exhibitions and the museums where I WAS the curator or chief curator as the source. For the Shonibare exhibition you can find a mention/review on Art Daily: however it doesn't mention me as the curator, but I was in charge of all "Collection Selects" exhibitions and selected international artists and designers to come create their own exhibitions by choosing works from the museum's collections and then creating a work to compliment them:  https://artdaily.cc/news/15207/Yinka-Shonibare-Selects--Works-at-Cooper-Hewitt#.YZASpL1OmV8  Instead of Neto, Suter & Iturbide exhibition - since that was a small exhibition, although lovely on Latin American photographers before these were well-known, let's substitute the exhibition "Frederic Church, Winslow Homer, and Thomas Moran: Tourism and the American Landscape" which I co-curated at the Cooper-Hewitt and there is an article in which John Updike in the New York Review of Books praises my catalog essay: https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2006/08/10/the-artist-as-prospector/  as that is a definite source ok? I will stop doing anything but trying to "talk" and ask questions on this page and thank you all so very much for helping me have an entry for which I am very grateful and appreciative. Barbarabloemink (Barbarabloemink) 15:00, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
 * , Boltanski isn't an issue. I have a source. I think I am fine with the Shonibare exhibition with what I have as it shows you invited her as a guest curator in the materials I already found. Church, et al link will work. If you can find something that links you to Guerilla Girls and Ouattara we'll be fine. If you have a catalogue/pamphlet entry, you can scan the title page and article and e-mail it to me. There is a link on my page. You will need to e-mail me first and when I reply, you can add the photos, as WP will not allow you to send photographs via their e-mail system. It may well be that we reorganize the article a bit, but right now, I am just trying to ensure that each statement in it has documentation, as otherwise, it will have to be removed per policy for living people. SusunW (talk) 20:19, 13 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Barbarabloemink (Barbarabloemink) SusunW Ampimd GråbergsGråaSång Yes I was born April 18, 1953 in New York City, NY at Leroy Hospital in Manhattan which no longer exists and was at six months whisked with my parents to Madrid, Spain for my father's job as an engineer - where we lived for two years and I began my love of art by going to the Prado weekly with my grandmother and falling in love with the princess in Las Meninas. Also in terms of the Shonibare: yes the title "Shonibare Collects" I created a series at the Cooper-Hewitt where from the collection of 250,000 objects in the permanent collection I invited international artists AND designers to select works from the collection and themselves curate and exhibition and to also create their own original work that was a "reaction" to the collection (it is the Smithsonian's National Design Museum) and I brought in the first African or Black artist and designers' works to the museum (just as an aside because it was a pretty much white collection other than some African textiles!). So if you source that article that you found saying I "found" artists and designers to select works from the collection, you have found a source for the Yinka Shonibare Selects exhibition with me as the curator. ok? also see my statement above. Also thank you for adding the sentence about Deborah Kass' work being feminist so early - 30 years later she is still not recognized properly for how innovative she was/IS and should have had major retrospectives at the Whitney & Met Museum by now but as a woman, still has not so your additional statement of her prescience helps! Thanks! Barbarabloemink (Barbarabloemink) 15:20, 13 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Barbarabloemink (Barbarabloemink) SusunW Ok let's take out Ouattara since the only mention I can find is in his bio website and I can't find the pamphlet we did for the show and instead use the exhibition "Comid Release! Negotiating Identity for a New Generation" which I co-curated with Vicky Clark and has a review at: https://www.austinchronicle.com/arts/2004-10-15/233296/  that mentions me as a curator.  I'm just trying to show the range of diversity I worked hard to exhibit for 25+ years at museums as an early woman director but maybe that comes through anyway with all the work you are doing. Unfortunately since a lot of the museums I worked in were smaller so I could curate as well as direct, we didn't have the money for large catalogs or get major press. Plus I was always a little too "outspoken" and "flamboyant" a director as it is....Thanks! :Barbarabloemink (Barbarabloemink) 15:43, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Great, thank you, I'll replace Ouattara with the above. I love art, but it's not "my thing", (research and activists are), so yes, I am trying to pick out bits from the reviews to show the range of your work (as well as the artists). If I get the "art part" wrong, someone else will have to correct that, as I am honestly just trying to ensure that we have a fully documented article that gives a broad scope of your work. SusunW (talk) 21:23, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I think I have all the reviews for the exhibits incorporated. I broke it into 2 sections. Initially I was following the list as it was presented, but I changed the style in the second section. Do y'all think we should give the list first and then discuss, as in solo, or just present the format as in multi-artists without a list first? SusunW (talk) 19:33, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

Date of birth
According to the category, she was born in 1953 but there is nothing to justify this in the article.--Ipigott (talk) 07:26, 13 November 2021 (UTC)


 * I removed it since it was unsourced but didn't think of the category. It's probably correct, but WP:BLP. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:51, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
 * One or more of these sources gives her age, but I'd have to find it again. She knows when she was born, so I am sure the info of 1953 is correct, we just need to find the source and re-input it. SusunW (talk) 14:44, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Found it and put 1953 back in. Beals says she was 36 in 1989.


 * Barbarabloemink (Barbarabloemink) SusunW please note this article regarding A Natural Order exhibition that was in the early 1990s and so very early in terms of exhibitions about the fragility of the natural environment and conservation/preservation of our planet's natural order : https://www.nytimes.com/1990/06/17/nyregion/art-an-intersection-of-art-and-nature-18-sculptures-by-the-hudson.html Barbarabloemink

(Barbarabloemink) 15:49, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

Acting
I have not found any independent WP:BLP-good sources about her acting. Anyone else? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:07, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Haven't found any independent sources to confirm the personal life section. Facebook and imdb are not curated, thus for our purposes should be avoided. I do find these, which confirms first marriage and divorce. SusunW (talk) 19:00, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Yep, imdb should at most be an external link in a BLP. I used FB for "is married". I see no reason to doubt this actually is BB's FB (though ideally it should have the blue checkmark) per WP:ABOUTSELF. If someone wants to delete the sentence I won't fight for it. Your first link says engaged, but the second + FB could at a stretch be used for ""has been married at least twice." Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I am reminded of Judith Newman's two NYT articles about how she wanted and got a WP-article. See "This article has been mentioned by multiple media organizations" at Talk:Judith Newman Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:52, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's always the problem with living people. Finding sources to document what they know about their life, but that no one has published in a source which we can use. On acting, here.
 * I added a bit more to publications and finished out the curated section, but left a query above on the talk page about it. I think I've done about all I can do here and need to get back to my nationality articles. If anyone needs me, just ping. SusunW (talk) 22:08, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I saw that one. Not independent, similar to your employer or university writing about you. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:14, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I agree is not independent, but IMO it is fine as a Reliable source in this case. It's not self-published, isn't tabloid journalism, is not contentious, and as the company has been around for eighteen years,, the Hudson Warehouse, now Classical Theater, is not likely to publish information that would damage their reputation, which according to various reviews in the article which you can access, is good. SusunW (talk) 15:51, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
 * If you want to use it for "She has worked as an actor and is involved with the Hudson Classical Theater Company." I will not object. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:55, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

Impressive work
I have certainly seen worse looking WP-articles than this one. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:11, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Me too . Collaboration always improves the encyclopedia and I appreciate everyone's hard work on this one. SusunW (talk) 16:16, 15 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Barbarabloemink (talk]) First thank you very very much for all the very hard work and time everyone put into this entry - it is greatly appreciated, despite the things I wish you had not taken out that I could not find printed sources for you with my actual name attached. I can still email Susun the Hudson Classical Theater Company program for Boyet character with my name prominently listed as performing...but in any event thank you all. One thing: I did not earn and "MFA" at the Institute and Yale, I earned an "M.A." - an MFA is for visual artists not art historians and I have never been an artist myself so if you could please change that...I don't think there is any source that lists any of my degrees as an "MFA" - they are all listed as "M.A.s" Thank you! [[User:Barbarabloemink|Barbarabloemink (talk) 17:53, 19 November (UTC)


 * @Barbarabloemink, well noted on the Degree being an M.A. not an M.F.A. Ampimd (talk) 23:09, 19 November 2021 (UTC)


 * @Barbarabloemink, According to the sources, Yeah it states that the first masters degree is a Master of Arts degree however the second degree was an M. Phil. (Master of Philosphy) from Yale. So I would effect the change per the sources. Thank you.Ampimd (talk) 23:21, 19 November 2021 (UTC)