Talk:Barry Goldwater

UFOs
This section is repetitive. Jack Upland (talk) 07:57, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Please offer a constructive suggestion for making the section less repetitive. Drdpw (talk) 15:44, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Combine the two references to Curtis Le May. They seem to be essentially the same.--Jack Upland (talk) 19:19, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I have trimmed the section some. Drdpw (talk) 14:03, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
 * You have eliminated the problem just as some have apparently eliminated the LGM.--Jack Upland (talk) 02:50, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

Image vote
User:Curbon7 has enforced consensus and reverted the new image I have uploaded for Goldwater's page. I thank them for doing so, for assuming my good faith, and for giving a reason for the revert. Because of this, I wish to amend the consensus with an image vote to replace Goldwater's long-standing image. I believe that Image B would serve better since it is much higher resolution, being 2,052 × 2,736 pixels large, compared to the current image (Image A) which is 576 × 789 pixels large, meaning that the image I wish to replace the consensus image with is 12 times larger. There is also the issue of quality. The Senate website has compressed the current image to the point of making it somewhat blurry. While the picture I wish to replace it with (B) isn't bullseye perfect, it is much higher resolution, and isn't nearly as compressed.

I vote for Image B.

I withdraw the vote, I have found a higher resolution version of the first image.

Mycranthebigman of Alaska ^_^ 18:09, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

Replace controversial claim about Goldwater's support for civil rights with a more neutral sentence that contrasts his actions locally versus nationally
Change "Barry Goldwater was fundamentally a staunch supporter of racial equality" (in the section "Local support for civil rights") to "Despite his vote against the Civil Rights Act of 1964, Goldwater supported local racial equality organizations in Arizona" Csb06 (talk) 05:43, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: This may be worth forming some consensus on and perhaps finding a source for, as it fundamentally changes the meaning of the sentence. The section already talks about specific work in Arizona, and his vote on the 1964 Act is mentioned later on in the section. Do you potentially have a source that links his vote as something that qualifies "staunch support"? Bestagon ⬡ 17:00, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I think we should at least remove the terms “staunch” and “fundamentally” due to Goldwater’s vote against the Civil Rights Act of 1964. “Staunch” implies he was an unwavering advocate of civil rights, when in fact he voted against one of the most significant pieces of civil rights legislation in U.S. history. At the very least that deserves less absolute qualifiers. Csb06 (talk) 19:46, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I’ve edited the wording as well as included a quote from MLK drawing the distinction between his “support” for local civil rights from his voting record. GonzoTribune (talk) 21:59, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
 * @GonzoTribune Can you explain why you have scare quotes around the word 'support', and are insisting that straightforward characterizations of his civil rights record are "lie(s)", a claim for which you don't appear to have any actual RS support? Goldwater desegregated (i) his family's department stores, (ii) the Arizona Air National Guard, two years before Truman desegregated the military outright, (iii) befriended black families in Phoenix and was instrumental in desegregating schools, restaurants, and airports in Arizona (three separate initiatives, not one), (iv) cofounded the Phoenix (Maricopa) chapter of the NAACP, and belonged to both the Phoenix and Tucson chapters, (v) founded the Arizona chapter of the National League on Urban Conditions Among Negroes, and further bankrolled its operating deficits for its first two years, (vi) as a newly elected Senator from a segregated state arriving in segregated Washington DC, nonetheless made as his first hire a black woman, as his legislative assistant, in 1952, (vii) forced the desegregation of the senate cafeteria in his first year as a senator after a black legislative assistant of his was denied service, (viii) backed every federal civil rights bill except the 1964 act, which he only opposed on account of two titles.
 * Most, if not all, of these statements are in the article; all can be easily and copiously sourced to RS across the entire partisan spectrum. That Goldwater rejected one particular civil rights bill on advice from his legal counsel, backed up by a second opinion, both from jurists of unsurpassed rank hardly impeaches this - if you disagree, can you cite several other major articles where a consensus exists that one cannot be a staunch supporter of X if one does not support bills that would advance X that one sincerely believes are unconstitutional? @Bestagon @Actualcpscm YackDaddy (talk) 08:06, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. As mentioned above, some discussion may be in order. I agree that we should portray this matter accurately, but to do so, we will need reliable sources. Do you have any you could point us to? Actualcpscm (talk) 11:59, 1 June 2023 (UTC)