Talk:Barstow Harvey House

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the proposal was moved. --BDD (talk) 17:31, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Harvey House Railroad Depot → Harvey House (Barstow, California) – This page should not have been moved back to its current title. It is hardly the only Harvey House that is also a railroad depot; Harvey House Railroad Depot should probably redirect to Harvey House p  b  p  19:08, 30 August 2013 (UTC)


 * "Barstow" is required for disambiguation between the various Harvey House rail depots. Binksternet (talk) 19:27, 30 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Several Harvey House articles may be written, as each Harvey House was notable in its day, and the surviving ones are historic sites. Here's a list of all of them as I think they could be disambiguated:
 * Harvey House (Florence, Kansas), first one, also known as the Clifton House or the Harvey House Museum
 * Harvey House (Seligman, Arizona), also known as the Havasu House (demolished 2008)
 * Harvey House (Needles, California), also known as El Garces
 * Harvey House (Barstow, California), also known as Casa del Desierto
 * Harvey House (Bakersfield, California), the train station and HH were both demolished 1972
 * Bakersfield (Amtrak station) now occupies the site
 * Harvey House (San Bernardino, California), an extensive addition to the existing Santa Fe Depot (San Bernardino)
 * Harvey House (Los Angeles, California), a grand dining hall within Union Station (Los Angeles), no hotel
 * Harvey House (Kansas City, Missouri), a grand dining hall within Union Station (Kansas City, Missouri), no hotel
 * Harvey House (St. Louis, Missouri), a grand dining hall within Union Station (St. Louis), no hotel
 * Harvey House (Las Vegas, New Mexico), also known as La Casteňada (demolished 1970)
 * Harvey House (Albuquerque, New Mexico), also known as The Alvarado (burned down 1993)
 * Alvarado Transportation Center now occupies the site
 * Harvey House (Emporia, Kansas), burned down in 1999
 * Harvey House (Wellington, Kansas), demolished 1965
 * Harvey House (Chanute, Kansas), now the public library
 * Harvey House (Newton, Kansas), a dining room within the pre-existing Newton (Amtrak station)
 * Harvey House (Hutchinson, Kansas), also known as The Bisonte (demolished in the 1950s)
 * Hutchinson (Amtrak station) now occupies the site
 * Harvey House (Gallup, New Mexico), also known as El Navajo (Harvey House)
 * Harvey House (Lamy, New Mexico), also known as El Ortiz
 * Harvey House (San Marcial, New Mexico), destroyed by flood 1929
 * Harvey House (La Junta, Colorado), also known as El Otero
 * Harvey House (Trinidad, Colorado), also known as Cardenas Hotel
 * Harvey House (Grand Canyon, Arizona), also known as El Tovar
 * Harvey House (Dodge City, Kansas), also known as El Vaquero (Harvey House)
 * Harvey House (Ash Fork, Arizona), also known as The Escalante or Ash Fork Station
 * Harvey House (Williams, Arizona), also known as The Fray Marcos
 * Harvey House (Purcell, Oklahoma), demolished in 1990s
 * Harvey House (Guthrie, Oklahoma), currently a cafe and bakeshop
 * Harvey House (Hugo, Oklahoma), now the Frisco Depot Museum
 * Harvey House (Sapulpa, Oklahoma), demolished 1963
 * Harvey House (Waynoka, Oklahoma), currently operated as a restaurant and museum
 * Harvey House (Santa Fe, New Mexico), also known as La Fonda (Harvey House)
 * Harvey House (Belen, New Mexico), currently a museum
 * Harvey House (Clovis, New Mexico)
 * Harvey House (Vaughn, New Mexico), also known as Las Chavez (demolished)
 * Harvey House (Amarillo, Texas), a dining room within the station
 * Harvey House (Brownwood, Texas), refurbished
 * Harvey House (Slaton, Texas), refurbished
 * Harvey House (Winslow, Arizona), also known as La Posada Historic District and Winslow (Amtrak station)
 * Harvey House (Syracuse, Kansas), also known as The Sequoyah
 * Other disambiguation which should be supplied should be in the form of Harvey House (city) without the state, and also Nickname (Harvey House). None of these stations should be disambiguated with Hotel or Station or Depot, because they all shared those traits. I think Harvey House Railroad Depot says nothing specific about Barstow and should redirect the reader to the Harvey House disambiguation page or wherever there is a list of all the Fred Harvey Company Harvey Houses. Binksternet (talk) 01:35, 31 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Before Binksternet interrupted my attempted message by point out examples of other Harvey Houses, I was ready to voice my Strong Support for a rename per User:Purplebackpack89, and I stand by my vote. I want to see Harvey House Railroad Depot redirected to Harvey House, with an inclusion of this name in the description. -User:DanTD (talk) 01:41, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry about the edit conflict! The next margarita is on me. Binksternet (talk) 01:44, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
 * p b  p  could really use an ice-cold beverage about now
 * This is kind of a complex mess because many H.H. were part of a train depot. I think Carnegie libraries went through this renaming mess long time ago, though I wasn't involved in it, see List of Carnegie libraries in the United States.  Tip: You should track down every related H.H. related article and post on every talk pages about this renaming discussion before you make a final decision, otherwise you will tick-off a lot of people!  By the way, I'm the original creator of the Harvey House (Florence, Kansas) article.  •  Sbmeirow  •  Talk  • 13:04, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
 * With your Florence, Kansas, article you set the tone for the naming/disambiguation of these buildings, and I think it is a good thing. I'll post a note to each related talk page. Binksternet (talk) 14:05, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I think I should point this out; While the Harvey House in Barstow clearly needs to be renamed, there are others on this list that can work fine as redirects. El Garces Hotel and El Tovar Hotel work fine as such, and if somebody want to do an article on the Frisco Depot Museum (Hugo, Oklahoma), a redirect there would be okay too. Speaking of which, how did Frisco get into what was essentially a Santa Fe Hotel? -User:DanTD (talk) 15:06, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree that we are only renaming the Barstow Harvey House article. The other redlinked article names are suggestions only... If there is a commonly used name for a building then per WP:COMMONNAME we should use that name, too. The suggested names in the format of Harvey House (city, state) and Harvey House (city) would in that case be made into redirects. Binksternet (talk) 15:27, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Though I used the format "Harvey House (City, State)" for the Harvey House (Florence, Kansas) article, it doesn't mean that it is the only way of doing it. An alternate format could be "Florence Harvey House", similar to Carnegie libraries.  I can't remember why I used that specific format, but I might have borrowed it from the USA school naming method since there are numerous schools named after famous people, see Washington High School which lists many schools that use the "School (City, State)" naming method.  •  Sbmeirow  •  Talk  • 17:00, 1 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Support the move that's in question here, per the nom's reasoning. The articles for other Harvey Houses can be dealt with individually. Deor (talk) 16:37, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment I reverted the move because it didn't make sense as a solution to the problem that was described in the move's edit summary. The article had been moved from Harvey House Railroad Depot to Harvey House (Barstow, California), with the edit summary: "too many other Harvey Houses are also Railroad Depots." But a) the article indicated that this topic is referred to as "Harvey House Railroad Depot", not "Harvey House"; and b) Harvey House Railroad Depot still redirected to this particular Harvey House. I don't know anything about Harvey Houses and I'm not inclined to try to understand, or participate in, the discussion that's already begun. I'm just going to say that, in titling the article, the first issue should be: Is this topic most commonly identified as "Harvey House" or "Harvey House Railroad Depot" (or something else)? The title should reflect that, regardless of whether many other topics are also known by the same name. And, if there are many topics that are known as Harvey House, and/or many topics that are known as Harvey House Railroad Depot, then the user who searches for those terms should be taken to an appropriate disambiguation page. Theoldsparkle (talk) 15:38, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Support rename. All Most Harvey Houses were in or at railroad depots (I say "most" because I think I recall seeing them on the Illinois Tollway in eons past), so it's incongruous (and not helpful to users) to title this particular one with the name "Harvey House Railroad Depot" while using place-name disambiguation for all of the others. The fact that this name is on the National Register listing doesn't mean that this particular Harvey House is uniquely associated with and universally recognized by the "Railroad Depot" name. --Orlady (talk) 13:32, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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