Talk:Battle of Fire Support Base Ripcord

Article Improvements
I have written an introduction, created and populated an infobox, and created and populated a references section. I will add to it as time permits, there is much more to be done. I plan to put in Background, Timeline, and Units Involved sections when I can. I welcome any other editors contributing, or cross-checking my work. This is my first article from scratch.Crockspot 20:07, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

I have added the 4th Battalion, 77th Artillery to the list of units involved. Dan D. Ric 09:05, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you sir! I know there are plenty more units that I have missed, just haven't had much time lately. Crockspot 14:10, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Aviation units
I moved Dan's comment here. We can gather more info and figure out how to incorporate it.Crockspot 02:59, 20 August 2006 (UTC)


 * The 159th Assault Support Helicopter Bn. consisted of three Medium Lift companies flying CH-47 Chinooks. These companies used the callsigns "Playtex," "Varsity" and "Pachyderm." A fourth Heavy Lift company flew CH-54 Tarhes (Skycranes) and used the very apt callsign "Hurricane." Dan D. Ric 20:11, 19 August 2006 (UTC)


 * The 158th Aviation Batallion consisted of three assault companies flying UH-1 slicks, and one attack company flying AH-1 Cobras. Crockspot 02:59, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
 * A/158 "Ghostriders" - assault
 * B/158 "Lancers" - assault
 * C/158 "Phoenix" - assault
 * D/158 "Redskins" - attack


 * 2nd Squadron/17th Cavalry consisted of three Air Cavalry Troops, each equiped with LOH-6, UH-1, And AH-1G aircraft. "Assault," "Banshee" and "Condor." Dan D. Ric 07:40, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Hills associated with Ripcord battle

 * Hill 882 (YD 498-075)--Max101st (talk) 14:27, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Hill 605 (YD 375-200)
 * Hill 805 (YD 362-188)
 * Hill 902 (YD 336-172)
 * Hill 1000 (YD 333-193)
 * Coc Muen Mountain (YD 318-180)
 * Re-up Hill (YD 362-165)
 * Ripcord (YD 343-194). AKA Hill 927, Cheeseburger Hill, FSB Carrol.
 * Triple Hill (YD 331-203)

Comments
I'm adding these here, since I have the UTM coordinates with a source. Thought that people could fill in notable events at these hills, and add this to the article. - Crockspot 01:20, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Casualty list?
Nolan's book includes a casualty list. Is that something that we should include in a sub-page? If so, one problem I see is that Nolan's list is only of casualties in July, during the siege. There were quite a few KIAs between 12 March and 30 June related to the initial assaults and the buildup. It would take some work to round up all of those names, and they might not be all-inclusive. So a list built from Nolan's source should probably be titled List of KIAs during the siege of FSB Ripcord, and maybe clarify in the intro about previous casualties related to Ripcord not being listed. Any comments? - Crockspot 01:32, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * One issue I discovered, one of the casualties was a medic who died under less-than-honorable circumstances, and Nolan uses a pseudonym in the book. I have determined this person's real name through research on vvmf.org, but would the use of his name constitute original research? Should this list even be published on Wikipedia? I could use some opinions here. - Crockspot 17:22, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Honor roles and other lists of casualties tend to get swiftly removed on the grounds that Wikipedia is not a memorial. --Nick Dowling 00:04, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Casualties of battle of Operation Texas Star and battle of Ripcord taken from Gen John J Hennesey's After Action Battle Report. www.netmaximus.com/page18.html--Max101st (talk) 13:57, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

I noticed that this link, " Casualties of battle of Operation Texas Star and battle of Ripcord" was to be deleted. This addition was taken from the After Action Battle report from Operation Texas Star written By Gen John J Hennesey declassified authority 927623, released from the National Archives which includes the battle of Ripcord. No real examination of the battle would be complete without examining Gen Henneseys Report.

Initiated contact for Operation Texas Star taken from Gen John J Hennesey's After Action Battle Report www.netmaximus.com/page17.html--Max101st (talk) 14:13, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

MG Harrison's Opinion
I edited the conclusion of this article to non-POV. I wanted to delete it entirely since it is prima-facie self-serving in looking for justifications for his command taking 5% of the Army's KIA for the year. His thesis that, like the Ia Drang and Tet, the mauling of the PAVN division attacking him delayed their offensives for two years is in his book (page 181) couched more as a question -- his subsequently (next sentence) calling the action at FSB Ripcord a "tactical victory" for his unit is rather contentious, given the manner US forces had to abandon the battlefield. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.135.102.61 (talk) 07:10, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Imprecisions in the article
I have no particular knowledge about this particular event, but I have two comments.

1- You are using the two acronyms NVA and PAVN. I suggest using only one of the two for clarity. 2- In the text, you are speaking about 10 to 1 odds, although the battle information quote: 4 Bn vs 1 Div, which looks more like 4 Bn vs 12 Bns, which is more something like 3 to 1 odds, or maybe a bit more? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.245.16.100 (talk) 09:49, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
 * And even these statements are hard to quantify without strength returns for both sides. US battalions tended to run understrength in the field (often by about 30% if not more), while PAVN battalions varied widely in strength. PAVN divisions were also not necessarily the three brigade constructs favored by the US at this time, and could be larger or smaller depending on circumstances.Intothatdarkness (talk) 18:32, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
 * 1- I suggest that we use the NVA acronym exclusively since this is being told from the US perspective.
 * 2- After reading Harrison's book, it's pretty clear that both NVA divisions were at full strength (or close to it) at the start of the battle, reinforced by the attached units. Nevertheless US forces withdrew in good order with minimal casualties (considering the circumstances), and the two NVA divisions paid a huge price. Phoenix and Winslow (talk) 22:42, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

As someone attached to HQ 1st Cav Division at this time I dispute the statement that the 101st was the only full-strength division in the country. This event occurred fairly concurrently with the Cambodian incursion after all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.241.202.206 (talk) 16:00, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed. The 25th Infantry didn't start moving back to Hawaii until the second half of 1970 (November?).Electricstrawberry (talk) 11:08, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

casualty
I believe Weiland Norris (one of the KIA) was brother to actor Chuck Norris — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.136.29.223 (talk) 16:13, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

3-187 of the 101st
My father-in-law says that the 187th 3rd Battalion (Rakkassans) Alpha company of the 101st also had action in the hills near Ripcord. It is not included in the list of units involved. He was wounded near ripcord early June 1970. He also believes the area was napalmed soon after. http://www.ripcordassociation.com/c.aspx?n=Facts-about-Ripcord AMDS (talk) 13:44, 5 June 2016 (UTC) AMD 6/5/2016

I just realized this was prior to the official battle timeframe. AMDS (talk) 14:18, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

Little was known about the battle until 1985
It is not correct that "Little was known about the battle until 1985, when the FSB Ripcord Association was founded". The battle may not have been widely known, but that is a different matter.Royalcourtier (talk) 07:49, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

Medal of Honor
As far as I can tell Bob Kelsu did not earn the Medal of Honor ever, let alone for action during this battle. His linked page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Kalsu doesn't mention it and his name also does not appear on any list of MOH recipients. The header says that 3 Medals of Honor were awarded for the battle, but only 1 is verifiable, the one that went to Andre Lucas.72.80.163.171 (talk) 15:07, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
 * You're right, I've fixed that. The page states that 3 MoHs were awarded, but I can't find any RS for those apart from Lucas'. Mztourist (talk) 03:38, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

Time of the battle and casualties
According to unclassified document of the "Lessons Learned, Headquarters, 101st Airborne Division", published in 31st July 1970, the mentioned "Ripcord Operation" was started from (an unknown date of) May to 23rd July. In which, US casualties were:

- 269 Killed in action (KIA)

- 1.312 Wounded in action (WIA)

- 18 Missing in action (NIA)

- 42 Non-battle death (NBD)

- 240 Non-battle injuries (NBI)

Note that "Operation Texas Star" were also mentioned in the report, that removed any doubt that the phrase "Ripcord Operation" referred to "Operation Texas Star", it is unclear which battle the "Ripcord Operation" referred to, but from my personal guess probably the battle at Ripcord and battles around the Fire Support Base, such as Hill 805 and Hill 1000.

Should the time of the battle updated back to April, the start of Ripcord construction, as the casualties could match with this most reliable source? Moreover, previous activities of the US Army and PAVN before the conventional battle (1st July - 23rd July) would not be missed. Vietlong1220 (talk) 16:58, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
 * User:Vietlong1220 You are not reading the report correctly. The friendly losses listed on page 5 are for the entire 101st Airborne division in the quarterly period ending 31 July 1970. Only the 2nd Battalion 506th Infantry and some supporting units were at Ripcord and so the figures given on the page are correct. The fighting at Ripcord was part of the larger Operation Texas Star. Mztourist (talk) 03:23, 25 September 2023 (UTC)