Talk:Battle of Gagra

Map
To Iberieli: why is that map more NPOV? The only difference I can detect is the colour of Georgia, why does that matter? sephia karta 20:27, 30 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Since he hasn't responded, let me give you my interpretation. Some of the Georgian Wikipedians including Iberieli unfortunately believe that showing Abkhazia as independent from Georgia is POV but showing it as still part of Georgia is NPOV. To them it doesn't matter that Abkhazia has been independent from Georgia for almost 2 decades. It also matters not that the independence hasn't been officially recognized because official recognition is irrelevant when it comes to determining whether country A is independent of country B. Hence that is why he has a problem with a map that shows Abkhazia as a different colour of Georgia. In my opinion this is a silly dispute because there are plenty of maps in Wikipedia that show an administrative subdivision within a country in a different colour. For example see here. Pocopocopocopoco (talk) 15:55, 1 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Exactly, Georgia may be in a different shade, but it is also in a different shade from Russia. Because within Georgia place names are shown and because of the way borders are demarcated, I would say the map clearly shows Abkhazia within Georgia. So I don't get Iberieli's problem. sephia karta  17:33, 1 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Your pro-separatist POVs are irrelevant here, the UN map was removed and replaced by Russian made map which does not meet NPOV. However, if you Proco still want to engage in provocations and harassing me or Kober, its another topic and will be dealt with accordingly. Anyway, you are on ignore by number of users and therefore, none will yield to your POV pushing and provocations. Iberieli (talk) 18:44, 1 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Do you even read what I write? I said that to me, the map that you replaced seems to show Abkhazia as part of Georgia. Now how on earth is that "pro-separatist POV"? And how on earth am I harassing you or Kober? Because I have the good manners to question your change of maps on the talk page instead of reverting it? And what do you mean by "you are on ignore by number of users"? sephia karta  23:58, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

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stadium beheadings
i have removed any reference to the beheading of civillians in a stadium in gagra, these are unfounded statements

"The Mission was particularly interested in investigating allegations of atrocities by Abkhazian troops in Gagra at the time of the recapture of that city from Georgian forces. The delegation was able to find absolutely no evidence to support two major allegations: One was the story that hundreds of Georgians had been driven into a stadium and killed; the other was that Abkhazian soldiers had gone to the hospital and killed doctors and patients there."

http://www.abkhazworld.com/Pdf/AbkGeo1992Report.pdf

" Report of a UNPO mission to Abkhazia, Georgia, and the Northern Caucasus " — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.86.232.68 (talk) 01:13, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Actually there was a source: Murphy's The Wolves of Islam: Russia and the Faces of Chechen Terror, though it says 'Georgian soldiers' rather than 'Georgians' as in the article. Unfortunately in the snippet I can see on Google books I can only see that Georgians attributed this atrocity to Basayev and no references to the sources Murphy used. Alaexis¿question? 18:53, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
 * UNPO is a partisan organization whose credibility in conducting such investigations has to be questioned. --KoberTalk 04:15, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Putin himself confirmed in 2001 that beheadings and "football-playing" actually took place:"The Georgian authorities seem to have forgotten how Chechen terrorists used the heads of Georgians as footballs during the Abkhazian crisis. Yes, unfortunately, that is a fact." Source: http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/transcr1pts/21269. So much for "unfounded statements". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marovaso (talk • contribs) 11:17, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the source. I've archived that page in case it is deleted by the Russian authorities in the future.--KoberTalk 12:28, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
 * No need. And good thinking, by the way. I was actually shocked to find a working link, I expected it to be erased by this point. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marovaso (talk • contribs) 17:17, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Please see my comment here, let's have the discussion on Putin as a reliable source there. Alaexis¿question? 19:31, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

2024
"In 2001 Vladimir Putin mentioned this when speaking about Georgia's lack of cooperation in fighting Chechen militants: 'The Georgian authorities seem to have forgotten how Chechen terrorists used the heads of Georgians as footballs during the Abkhazian crisis. Yes, unfortunately, that is a fact." Removing this quote by Putin since there is no evidence for such an event taking place, and the newspaper that originally reported it later claimed they had no confirmation of such a thing occuring: "An article appears in the newspaper “Free Georgia” that describes in detail how at the Gagra stadium the Abkhaz and Chechen teams played football with severed Georgian heads. After a commission consisting of Russian deputies, as well as a commission by Michael Van Praagh, did not confirm the fact of such a brutal attitude towards the Georgians, this newspaper admitted in November that “the episode at the stadium was not confirmed." https://www.ekhokavkaza.com/a/28778119.html Ola Tønningsberg (talk) 22:22, 15 January 2024 (UTC)