Talk:Battle of Sardarabad

Comment
How about three revert rule about Nareklm and roob323. They can revert the site how many times then want? This site needs to be protected. Moreover I have a doubt that Nareklm is using other sign in options as well under the name chaldean to keep reverting the same article many times.
 * I only reverted 1 time you reverted almost 5 times. Nareklm  00:20, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I guess you don't even know your counting numbers go the the articles history page and count how many times me and Narek reverted, than come here and cry about who can revert how many times. By the way thers a comment in your talk page. I'm not done with you. You just got into a mig mess by writing stuff like that in my talk page. ROOB323 00:26, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

This is the armeniapedia version about the battle

In violation of the Brest-Litovsk Peace Treaty with soviet Russia, Turkish troops crossed the border in 1918 and attacked Alexandropol (Leninakan). The aggressor intended to crush Eastern Armenia and seize Transccaucasia. When Alexandropol fell, the Turkish Army poured into the Ararat Valley – the heart of Armenia. There was a major engagement at Sardarabad on May 22-26, where the Turkish Army was defeated and retreated. --armenianNY 00:37, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

First of all I do not know how to revert. I just make changes. Second as I am trying to put this version, a very good guy, named roob323 reverts to an older Turkish version of the site. Moreover, now it sounds even ridiculous.The same thing they wrote twice. Just by cutting and pasting from the history of the article. These kids who never went to school in Armenia, whose knowledge about Armenian history comes from church sunday schools write things that can couse laugh even in Turkish readers. For example, in early May recently becamed independent Armenia was attacked by Ottoman forces ( Armenia Georgia and Azerbaijan decalred their independence only in the end of May). Or, after losing the battle of Sardarapat, Armenia declared its independence (second time as a matter of fact). But we all know that the second time Armenia declared its Sovetization (occupation by bolsheviks) on November 29,1920 and not independence. It is very well known that the commander in the battle of Sardarapat was Daniel Bek Pirumov from the village of Nakhichevanik in Nagorno Karabakh. SO fat these 2 imbeciles named Nareklm and roob keep pushing the name Slkuni or Silician. And finall,y who needs the aftermath of the battle in Sardarapat if it concludes information about what Georgia did, who it asked for help etc etc etc. I am surprized to find out from the article edited by roob and narek that Turkish army occupied the whole Armenia(including Russian part which is todays Armenia). Probably Nagorno Karabakh or Zangezur or Sevan they do not consider a part of Armenia anymore. Moreover, in the history of this article also edited by some turks and Narek you can find out that Armenia was forced to sign treaty of Batumi!!!!!You can see how come 3 not literate (angraget in Armenian) imbeciles can come and do things in wikipedia that Turkish and Azeri propagandists could not even see in their dreams. Because these 3 imbeciles have got a right to revert edit or even block others, the real Armenian history specialists can get heart attacks if they read this article. Does anybody watch in Armenia what is going on here?
 * That's really good for you! but guess what no one cares you want to school all those years they mean nothing here, with out references there meaningless. Nareklm  00:42, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 * ArmenianNY whats your e-mail? ROOB323 00:49, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes, ArmenianNY, there is a citation source here where one can find out that the first Republic of Armenia had been never called Democratic Republic of Armenia. I do not know how come they cited the source, in the meantime wrote here completely contradicting information about the first republic of Armenia.Berberov

Where are the sources?
This article doesn't cite any sources. I have searched for an objective source, but there was hardly any info available and they were all from Armenian websites.. Now considering that Atatürk couldn't have possibly managed an army in 1918 (although he fighted in Caucasia, there is no evidence about this battle), I am thinking that this might be an Armenian propaganda. I might be mistaken, but it would be very good if someone cited sources. --User:Wormtail 18:36, 06 February 2006

I'm with Wormtail. If this was a victory, why is it that the Ottoman army has captured every bit of Ottoman Armenia in less than two months? Some victory, more like a temporary holding action which collapsed due to Ottoman success elsewhere on the front. The Armenian republic was entirely conquered by the Ottomans, early in 1918, this is an historical fact. It is also a fact that the Army of Islam marched right through this area and on into Russian Armenia in the summer of 1918. user:cglassey.

Article in terrible condition
Article needs to be improved. And please neutral sources, not armenianow.com.--Doktor Gonzo 16:07, 18 December 2006 (UTC) Can you be a little more specific, Doctor Gonzo, which part of this article is from armenianow.com?Berberov

Common use in English

 * "Battle of Sardarapad" - 4 hits
 * "Battle of Sardarapat" - 52 hits
 * "Battle of Sardarabad" - 407 hits

Takabeg (talk) 06:37, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Heroic battles of May?
I think the "Heroic battles of May" is an improper campaign name to include this article in. For one, it is only found in Armenian-language sources; for two, when it is used by Armenians it does not convey a particular proper noun; more like the battles that took place in the month of May. Armenians in 1918 cast the battles as a continuation of the war on the Caucasus Front, where these three battles are already mentioned.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 01:41, 17 November 2013 (UTC)


 * "Heroic battles of May" is used in the websites of the Armenian government, president and parliament. For me, that is enough to make it a notable phrase. Why do you think it's not a proper noun when used by Armenians? Մայիսյան հերոսամարտեր is clearly used for the battles of May 1918. See "Heroic battles of May" is the collective name of the three famous battles, which is a "larger conflict" than a single battle. -- Ե րևանցի  talk  02:24, 17 November 2013 (UTC)


 * It's also used for almost every battle Armenians fought and showed courage in (Nagorno-Karabakh, during the 1894-96 massacres and the genocide, etc.). While factually true, it is also comes off as a remnant of Soviet historiographical writing, which often fawned hyperbolic praise upon every individual and battle. Most encyclopedias would avoid using that word and to use it as part of a campaign title strikes one as inappropriate and out of place. What Armenian sources use to describe doesn't necessarily mean that it has become common usage. Caucasus Front would be a far more appropriate title.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 03:31, 17 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Okay then. I have no objection in replacing it with Caucasus Campaign. -- Ե րևանցի talk  04:08, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

Were The Bells Ringing?
I have been reading Jacques Kayaloff's account of Sardarabad and am curious about a statement in this article: "Catholicos Gevorg V ordered that church bells peal for six days as Armenians from all walks of life – peasants, poets, blacksmiths, and even the clergymen – rallied to form organized military units." According to Kayaloff this never happened. He states that Alexandropol fell to the Turks on May 15, 1918, effectively cutting off all communication for Yerevan. As a result:

"'Though on May 16 and 17 there were wild rumors circulating in Yerevan, they did not provoke any exodus of officials or evacuation of the population. Indeed, during the following days not only did the tension abate but it lessened to such an extent that during the fateful days of Sardarabad Yerevan remained unduly calm. The banks and post office opened as on any other day although in the latter the stamp supply was long since exhausted. Even the movie house continued to show one of the time's drab silent films. May 23rd itself went by without any marked event: the young recruits had their regular drills in the yard of the artillery barracks and no new bills were posted on the walls, not even in the front of the Town Hall. That day no news arrived from the front, not even very late at night. Contrary to some of the more colorful descriptions, no church bells rang that day, neither to call for volunteers nor, later, to celebrate the victory.'"

Kayaloff then goes on to write about the difficulty of getting accurate first hand accounts of the battle, criticizing articles written decades after the fact full of claims that are of dubious authenticity. He says:

"A rather popular article for general reader consumption was printed in the May, 1968, issue of the Yerevan monthly called Soviet Armenia. Written by a historian, A. N. Mnatsakanian, the article is entitled 'The Decisive Battle of the Armenian People'. It contains a sketchy description of the engagement at Sardarabad and specifies the Armenian losses during the battle as reaching the 1,800 figure while the Turkish losses he puts at 3,000 dead left on the battlefield. Neither the units involved nor their commanders are indicated in the article. Among the heroes mentioned in the article the name of Sakelary was the only one familiar to this author ... It would be interesting to learn the sources of some of the more romantic details given by Mnatsakanian because the actual events had a more prosaic overtone. No bells were ringing, no volunteers rushed to the front, no appeals were made from the church pulpits in Yerevan between May 20 and 26. The battle was fought at a day's walking distance from Yerevan. No means of communications existed between the actual battle ground and the town except, on foot, in blazing sun, through the unfriendly villages of the Zangibazar district. (both quotes come from Kayaloff, Jacques. The Battle of Sardarabad. The Hague: Mouton, 1973.)"

I do not have a copy of Bobelian's book in front of me to see if he is citing Mnatsakanian's account, but unless Kayaloff is outright lying the claim that the bells rang in Yerevan for 6 days feels a bit like apocrypha to me. Xenomorph erotica (talk) 19:58, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Kirmizlu
There is currently a sentence in the article that goes as follows: On 27–28 May, Pandukht's squad weighed heavily upon smaller Turkish units, passed through Talin, Gyuzlu and Kirmizlu to rapidly penetrate into Sogyutlu, where Pandukht was joined by a local 1000-member squad.

"Kirmizlu" here redirects to Karmrashen (former village) in southern Aragatsotn province. I believe the writer actually intended to link to Karmrashen, Aragatsotn (from northern Aragatsotn province) for the following reasons:
 * Northern Karmrashen has a version in its history that said that it was "known as Kirmizlu until 1946", which southern Karmrashen does not.
 * Northern Karmrashen has stronger geographic proximity to the other towns mentioned in the sentence than southern Karmrashen.

I can not access the actual source to make more sense of the situation, but based on the above i will be changing the link. Koopinator (talk) 18:25, 15 November 2021 (UTC)