Talk:Bearded lady

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This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Lisa Roggenbuck.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 15:29, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

[Untitled]
It is stupid that someone would feel this article is "pretty worthless", and yet so many other stupid articles permeate this website. Yet for some inexplicable reason, this site has pissed off some nerd to the point of advocating it's censorship. What, are you a bearded lady? What a hack. I think YOU'RE pretty worthless.

The title should be changed to "Bearded Lady", as far more common term.

Middle Earth
Is it certain that Tolkein's female dwarves are bearded? I've never seen reference to female dwarves at all, and the point is mocked by the presence of bearded female dwarfs in Discworld (according to the Discworld quizbook).


 * "For the Naugrim (dwarves) have beards from the beginning of their lives, male and female alike

--The Silmarillion.


 * A similar point is made in Appendix A of The Lord of the Rings, although not as obviously. All it says there is that female dwarves cannot be distinguished from male dwarves by the other races. But we already know all male dwarves have beards, so the conclusion is obvious.

--Daibhid C 23:07 4 December 2005 (UTC)

I think the conclusion that female dwarves have beards is a little much to take from this passage. I think what was suggested by this passage is that the garb of female and male dwarves was similar, and that it was rare to see females outside of the home. (partially because of their lower numbers in dwarf society.) In the third age, apart from Dale and other communities that had a more muli-cultural societies, it was rare to see dwarves at all. How often were dwarves in Rohan, Gondor, Bree and other communities? Being a private people, and not often seen, rumors that they pop out of the ground and there are no dwarf women arose in Middle Earth. Also, if beards do not appear on other female species in Middle Earth it would be extremely unlikely that dwarven women would have beards. Beards on female dwarves is a pretty ridiculous genetic trait. I plan to review sections on dwarves and see the context of that passage. Oldnoakes 20:37, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Here we go, this is the full text in the appendix: "It was said by Gimli that there are few dwarf-women, probably no more than a third of the whole people.  They seldom walk abroad except at great need.  They are in voice and appearance, and in garb if they must go on a journey, so like to dwarf-men that the eyes and ears of the other peoples cannot tell them apart.  This has given rise to the foolish opinion among Men that there are no dwarf-women  and that the Dwarves 'grow out of stone.'" ROTK Appendix A III Durin's folk.Oldnoakes 13:57, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

To me this section has more to say about they way others view dwarves than about dwarves themselves. It indicates the ignorance of Men because they can't tell the difference between males and females of different species, like in real life most people don't known the difference between male and female animals. I wouldn't think dwarves are born with beards and would have to grow them, so dwarven women could be mistaken for younger dwarven males. This harkens back to the tradition of women dressing up as boys in stories to avoid suspicion, which is evident in Tolkien's mind from the use of this disguise by Eowyn in the Battle of Pelenor fields.Oldnoakes 13:57, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

I suppose like anything that is written it may be interpreted differently to different people. However, the concept of the dwarves are slightly vague and are meant to be that way. If Tolkien intended dwarven women to have beards he would have said it more plainly.Oldnoakes 13:57, 20 December 2006 (UTC)


 * The line in the Silmarillon seems pretty clear to me. Daibhid C 19:41, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

"True" Beard Growth
This article states that women who grow beards usually do not have true beard growth, but rather dark facial hair. Generally, the term beard simply refers to a style of facial hair in which a man or woman who is physically able to grow facial hair does so, and allows it to cover most of their lower face, as in a "full beard". This statement needs to be cited, reworded, or clarified. Andrea Parton 13:41, 22 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm under the impression that facial hair is a beard, unless the facial hair is limited to a moustache or sideburns. Certainly a significant amount of hair on the chin and jaw area is a beard. Foday 02:44, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Not a rare thing in some regions
In the South Western Pacific, it seems to be a quite common thing. I've seen many women with proper beards, often very massive and masculine women. In the olden days, these people were warriors and women were involved in conflicts. People in that region don't seem to bother about it...

Not a rare thing in some regions
In the South Western Pacific, it seems to be a quite common thing. I've seen many women with proper beards, often very massive and masculine women. In the olden days, these people were warriors and women were involved in conflicts. People in that region don't seem to bother about it... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.235.91.235 (talk) 20:56, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Conchita Wurst
As Conchita Wurst is in fact male, shouldn't Wurst not be included in this article? WikkanWitch (talk) 15:12, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
 * See also section links to articles that are related even if they don't belong in the article's text. Conchita is a representation of a bearded lady even if the artist is not a full transgender. 82.169.103.207 (talk) 15:00, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I added the pic before I saw that there is a discussion going on here. If you feel it necessary you still can remove the pic. Nevertheless I think she fits in here were well - as the impression of the public is: This is a bearded lady … --Meister und Margarita (talk) 22:29, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Just to clarify, Conchita is a gender-bending drag queen persona (i. e., an act or role, or alter ego), and her beard is fake. Neuwirth lives as a man in daily life and does not identify as transgender (in the narrow sense, i. e., gender-incongruent and preferring to live as other than their assigned gender full-time, or desiring some medical intervention to alleviate their gender incongruence), at least not publicly.
 * However, there are women who are typically able to grow a full beard just fine, namely trans women (unless their puberty was blocked). In fact, trans women are likely the most common type of woman who can grow a beard, so acting as if they did not exist is an odd and glaring omission. Moreover, using "women" to mean "cisgender women" is transphobic because it implies that trans women are not really women. Therefore I have amended the text accordingly. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 00:26, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

Grace Gilbert
Hello, what about this bearded lady ? A small description is in this book or in this one. Reptilien.19831209BE1 (talk) 06:44, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

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Sources to Help
Here are a couple of sources that I was thinking could be helpful in improving the page. Feel free to give me feedback on what you think about these sources:

Hamlin, A. K. (2011). The “Case of a Bearded Woman”: Hypertrichosis and the construction of Gender in the Age of Darwin. American Quarterly, vol. 63. Retrieved from https://doi.org/10.1353/aq.2011.0051

Miles, A. E. W. (1973). Julia Pastrana: The Bearded Lady. Proc. roy. Soc. Med. vol. 67. Retrieved from http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/003591577406700229 Lisa Roggenbuck (talk) 21:39, 4 February 2018 (UTC)