Talk:Berthe Morisot

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[Untitled]
I am glad to inform you that the article is now fully translated to Hebrew.

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 02:33, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Planned Edits
I plan to expand this article as part of an Art History course. The first change I would like to make is to change the picture at the top to a self-portrait rather than the work by Manet. I would like to change the structure of the article to include a Biography sections which will include her Early Life and Education, Life, and Death. The Early Life and Education will include the current information on her education. I would like to add some information about her experience growing up and her family status including details on her siblings and parents. After this I would like to expand the information about her education to include teachers other than Corot, such as Guichard. This section will include additional information about her introduction to copying at the Louvre.Next I will add information about the beginnings of her career. I will include a list of major exhibitions during her life time. The information about Impressionism will be incorporated into the section on her career. I will add in the start of her career and the beginning of a more mature career, which started with purchases of Morisot's paintings by Durand-Ruel. Also included in a Career section will be an expansion of the Impressionism section, including a what led to her inclusion in some of the exhibits and a description by a critic for Le Temps that she was the "one real Impressionist of the group." There will also be section on personal life including information about her marriage and her daughters birth as well as her relationship with Manet and other personal connections.Though there is a section on Subjects, I feel it would be better to create a section on Works and then have subheadings for style and subjects. Within the style section I will discuss the different mediums she worked in. I would like to include some information about her watercolors and pastels in addition to her oil paintings. In the subjects section I will add additional information about her evolution of subjects and her access to different scenes. In the Art Market section I would like to expand the information to included prices for works during her own time. This will include her painting Interior which sold for the highest price at the Hotel Drouot auction in 1857. Finally, within the gallery I would like to expand it to include some of her watercolor and pastel works. M.stoss17 (talk) 17:37, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

Peer Review
This article seems complete!The information is good and overall organized in a logical way. I noticed the two shorter sections towards the end because they seem unnecessary and could possibly be added to other sections; they are very short. Overall this article gives important information and seems good.

Peer Review
This article is very well organized and easy to read. The information is written in a clear and concise way that allows for the reader to understand it. A lot of information has been added, all of which seems relevant to this artist's life and artwork. As the other peer editor pointed out, I too thought the short sections of "Death" and "In popular culture" look awkward because of their length. I think the content under "Death" could be added to the end of the intro section in the very beginning of the article. Other than that, the article is well written and gives the reader a lot of significant information about the artist. Overall this is a very good article. Caro.woods95 (talk) 01:59, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

List of exhibitions
This list is mostly uncited, so I've removed it from the article. — howcheng  {chat} 01:25, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
 * 1864 - exhibited two paintings in the Paris Salon, additional years 1865-6, 1868, 1870, 1872-3
 * 1874 - first Impressionist exhibition, showed twelve works
 * 1875 - auction at Hotel Drouot, showed twelve works
 * 1876 - 2d impressionist exhibition (19 works)
 * 1877 - third impressionist exhibition
 * 1880 - 5th impressionist exhibition Paris exhibition, reviews judged her among the best (16 works)
 * 1881 april - 6th impressionist exhibition, Paris (7 works)
 * 1882 march - 7th impressionist exhibition, Paris (12 works)
 * 1883 - London exhibition, organized by Paul Durand-Ruel including three works by Morisot
 * 1886 - 1st impressionist exhibition, New York organized by Paul Durand-Ruel (6 works)
 * 1886 May - 8th impressionist exhibition, Paris
 * 1887 exposition des XX, Brussels,
 * 1892 - first solo-exhibition of forty-three works in Paris by Galerie Boussod et Valadon
 * 1896 – 5 - 21 march, retrospective exhibition, Durand-Ruel, Paris, organized by her friends Degas, Monet, Renoir and Mallarmé, helped by her daughter Julie. with 380 works it remains her biggest exhibition
 * 2018 and 2019 - itinerant major retrospective organized by the Musée d'Orsay and also presented at the Musée national des beaux-arts du Québec, Barnes Foundation and Dallas Museum of Art

Suggested Changes to the Works Section
I find the headers for the works section too subjective. I can't tell who is making the call about when her work is "innovative" vs. "fully developed" and I also think those categories are too vague. What is the difference between innovative and fully developed? Is it the opinion of one scholar or many? She is working on par with other artists throughout her career in different styles. I suggest that the list be altered to include only division by date, or to be one list, in order to avoid subjectivity. Claraweiland (talk) 23:06, 17 April 2019 (UTC)
 * It seems likely that the headers are based on chapter titles or other description in the cited sources, but I agree that the effect here is disturbing. I'll try a remedy. Ewulp (talk) 00:50, 18 April 2019 (UTC)

That looks better! I am getting the newest catalog of her work soon from the library and will see how the works section can be further improved. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Claraweiland (talk • contribs) 12:39, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

Discrepancy in location between Works and Gallery
A New York Times Monday Briefing email dated June 7, 2021, states that it is in the Musée Marmottan. Thus the "private collection" ref is presumably obsolete. Milkunderwood (talk) 00:21, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
 * In Works 1875–1884, Eugène Manet à l'île de Wight, 1875, oil on canvas, 38 × 46 cm private collection;
 * in Gallery, Eugène Manet on the Isle of Wight, 1875, Musée Marmottan Monet.

December 2022
NB: There is a problem with Berthe Morisot and her received history, which could easily be explained by the conflation of her work with that of her natural mother; Marie Morisot. Particularly if Marie Morisot was born 14th, January, 1841 and died 2nd March, 1895. There is a record of restitution (Edinburgh, Scotland/1911) which would suggest Berthe was born Paris; 1864: into a family which was historically survey and line draughtsmen. The works associated with her name may also be confused with the artists she dealt in, as a saleswoman. Principally with reference to Bonham's (as an auction house); and a client with the name: Cecil Rhodes. Money talks... Big money is occasionally silent. A full record of her work, by her hand alone; may only be available through the offices of ICI. The weird detail is her relationship to James Guthrie (society artist); who her natural mother took an instant dislike to: on first meeting. In private, James Guthrie was told to sort himself out; both by Marie Morisot and Mary Cassatt and stop hiding behind his uncle's reference. That reference is held by the French Republic; for technical reasons associated with commercial demarcation, as it might have been called in private by BOURSE; ELIS/19th Century in description. NB: Please note James Guthrie (society artist/ artist name) was actually Richard James Butterfield and acting Executive Director; VICKERS. His uncle was William Andrew Wall; of WALL LIMITED. 17.12.2022. Mr. D.J. Wall: ICI 46.18.177.138 (talk) 10:16, 17 December 2022 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by NicoSkater97 (talk • contribs)

Renoir and Morisot
In Tamar Garb's "Renoir and the Natural Woman" (1985), a scathing but well-deserved takedown of Renoir's known misogyny, she mentions some very interesting aspects of Renoirs friendship with Morisot on page 10. I think there's a lot more that can be added here. Viriditas (talk) 06:09, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

Mother was Fragonard's great-niece?
Is this true/documented? The footnote source gives Higgonet p 5, but on p.5 it simply says of her Father's descent 'Family tradition claims indirect descent from the painter Fragonard'. At the current (Summer 2023) the exhibition of Berthe Marisot at the Dulwich Picture Gallery the claim is made that she was not descended from Fragonard, but the idea was taken from (this is from memory) an introduction to an exhibition of her paintings where is was claimed she was the 'metaphorical' great-niece of Fragonard. See also http://albertis-window.com/2019/04/fragonard-and-morisot/ for further uncertainty JohnHodgsonNW5 (talk) 17:15, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Relationship with Giovanni Boldini?
I think there has been a confusion between a certain Berthe, who was the model of Giovanni Boldini, and Berthe Morisot. I found several sources that mentioned that his first French model and partner name was just Berthe. Someone might have made the confusion between both women in the Italian and French Wikipedia articles about the painting Conversation at the Café. I think these articles state that the French model Berthe wasn't Berthe Morisot: Mistico Dois (talk) 19:55, 14 September 2023 (UTC)