Talk:Biljana Plavšić

Credible reference requested...
...with regards to the statement: "a widely-circulated photographed showed her stepping over the body of a dead Muslim civilian to kiss the notorious Serb warlord Zeljko Raznjatovic, known as Arkan."


 * actually this is taken verbatim from this BBC News page... 213.16.121.246 19:48, 11 November 2006 (UTC)


 * there seems to be a video about this scene which was used as evidence in the ICTY case against Momcilo Krajisnik, referenced in the judgement on page 115: "When the group returned to the municipality building, Plavšić publicly thanked and kissed Arkan. This scene was met by shouts of approval from the local SDS members present." there is no mentioning however of the stepping over the body of a dead Muslim civilian. 213.16.121.246 20:12, 11 November 2006 (UTC)


 * In a Politika article, Lazanski reports that Swedish journalist Stefan Borg searched for the photograph for three years and couldn't find it. I searched ICTY transcripts and couldn't find anything about it. I'll edit the article accordingly. Nikola (talk) 08:51, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Convicted war criminal
Is it necessary to keep this statement in its current condition on opening line? She was released a while back and would have by now served the full sentence. Isn't the slate wiped clean after time? --Oranges Juicy (talk) 10:19, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Wiped clean? Firstly, it is absolutely not. Secondly, that is a bizarre choice of words, given what made this woman worthy of a Wikipedia article. Thirdly, the lead sentence is supposed to demostrate what makes the subject notable. The subject of this article is notable as a war criminal, not as a biology teacher. Of course, if you can suggest an improvement, please do. Surtsicna (talk) 14:04, 13 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Per WP:Terrorist, this is a bad intro. --Yerevani Axjik (talk) 19:14, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Where does WP:TERRORIST say that people convicted of crimes should not be described as convicted criminals? Surtsicna (talk) 20:18, 13 April 2015 (UTC)


 * It's a value-laden label. Those mentioned in the WP:TERRORIST are just examples. For example, Al Capone doesn't have such label in its lead, and we're talking about a featured article, or Hermann Göring, a good article. --Yerevani Axjik (talk) 15:21, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Value-laden? Nonsense. A person convicted of war crimes is a convicted war criminal. WP:Terrorist warns against using terms that may express opinions. It is nobody's opinion that Plavšić was convicted of war crimes; it is a fact that she was convicted of war crimes. Per the definition of the word 'criminal' ("one that has committed or been legally convicted of a crime") and WP:Spade ("it's okay to call a spade a spade"), Plavšić can certainly be described as a "convicted war criminal". For what it's worth, the article about Al Capone is not a featured article and Göring was a convicted war criminal only for the last two weeks of his life (consequently, his notability does not derive from that status). Surtsicna (talk) 13:23, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

Hi all, sorry I've been away for some time since beginning this discussion. Per Yerevani I also feel there is a value-laden element, and one that can be easily overcome by looking at other examples. So the slate can never be wiped clean and her teaching is not something I suggest mentioning in the first sentence. My own view here is that the "convicted war criminal" presentation seems abrupt and lends credence to the body which convicted and sentenced her (no offence meant to the victims of any wartime atrocity), I am merely saying that the ICTY is not universally appreciated and it has its fair share of criticism from scholars and analysts in all countries. Obviously that is not the aim of this discussion, not on this article anyhow, but how about rewording the opening line, extending it briefly, to have it phrased like Veselin Šljivančanin. Agreed? His accusations and subsequent indictment are on the first line and if we did something similar here, it would not lose the message the original editor had wished to deliver. --Oranges Juicy (talk) 11:36, 23 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Šljivančanin's intro seems acceptable to me. --Yerevani Axjik (talk) 00:38, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

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