Talk:Billy Bishop Toronto City Airport

Navigation section needs an update
There are 2 ILS's now at CYTZ and no Localizer... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.196.172.56 (talk) 03:59, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Needs Updating
There have been a few changes to YTZ that should be reflected here.


 * The new lighting system (see http://fly.blakecrosby.com/2006/11/visual_alignment_guidance_syst.html)
 * The change in AC Jazz's decision to fly out of the airport
 * More up to date information about Porter

I might come back and update this page when I have more time - Devastator 03:34, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

No commercial service
I've been going around chasing out references to the presence of commercial service at Toronto City Centre airport, and this page was no exception. While I was here, I removed some less than neutral phrasing, which called the term expansion misleading. Instead, it's now a clarification.

I have, however, found that there's still a schedule filed with IATA for a flight by AC Jazz on 3 July, '06. If this isn't a filing error, I'll make sure to come back and update the page then. - 63.107.91.99 13:40, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Looks like nope, there's no commercial service. That 3 July flight is no longer filed. We can comfortably not reference commercial or commuter service at this airport. - 63.107.91.99 14:25, 28 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Just to split hairs, even before Porter resumed, there was lots of commercial service at the airport (flight training, medevac, charter, sightseeing, etc. etc.), just no scheduled airline service. David 12:54, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Jazz resuming at airport
There are rumours that Air Canada Jazz will be resuming service at CYTZ in January 2007, but nothing public and verifiable that we can include in the article. Here's what I received from Bill Yule, the airport director, by private e-mail on 14 December: "With respect to Commercial Services Porter Airlines are the only operators at this time and they are flying to Ottawa and Montreal, we have received expressions of interest from others however, nothing concrete has developed yet." As soon as there's any public announcement, or even a rumour published in a public source, we can mention it in the body text, but until then, we have to wait. David 12:54, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Renaming
This National Post article says that "The [name] change is expected to be finalized in February when the aviation publications begin using the new name." The TPA's press release also states that "The name change should be finalized on February 11, 2010, with the publication of [appropriate publications]." How official is the name change, as of now? Is the "finalization" just a formality, or has the name not yet officially changed? Cheers, -M.Nelson (talk) 17:28, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
 * It's fairly common for the airport operator to use one name while NAV CANADA uses a different name. Toronto Pearson International Airport (operator) and Toronto Lester B. Pearson International Airport (NAV CANADA) or John C. Munro Hamilton International Airport (operator) and Hamilton Airport (NAV CANADA) are just a couple of examples. The public see one name and pilots and such will see another. This can exist for a couple of months or for several years, Hamilton is a good example of that. It looks as if in this case the operator has applied to NAV CANADA for the change but for other airports it sometimes appears that they don't bother. This article should be like the others and exist at the name the operator uses, Billy Bishop Toronto City Airport, but include the other "official" name. Then whenever NAV CANADA makes the changes, it might appear in the NOTAM first it can be removed. Enter CambridgeBayWeather, waits for audience applause, not a sausage 20:33, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Toronto/City Centre Airport is not the name of the airport, officially or in common use. That is how it is listed in certain publications, but it is not an official name. Nav Canada or Statistics Canada do not have authority over the TPA. I have no objections to the use of Toronto City Centre Airport, but it must be clear that it is on the way out. The most common name is Toronto Island Airport. City Centre will disappear, but not 'island airport.' Alaney2k (talk) 20:46, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

It has officially been renamed. Now it will take time for the name to filter out through Nav Canada publications, CFS etc and the name to be finalised out everywhere, but the name of the airport has officially changed from Toronto City Centre Airport to Billy Bishop Toronto City Airport no matter how other publications and agencies refer to it now or in the future. Canterbury Tail  talk  20:55, 11 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree with this point. I think what is at issue is how to illustrate the transitional nature as it changes over. The name has been approved by Transport Canada. TPA has officially renamed it Bishop. However, you will not find it listed this way in any aviation or statistical publications. Nav Canada or Stats Canada have no jurisdiction over the TPA. I prefer the wording of 'formerly Toronto City Centre', not 'or' as this is less precise. But if there is a proposal, I'll listen. Alaney2k (talk) 21:30, 11 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Be assured that I'm not trying to change the name from Billy Bishop Toronto City Airport and I'm not sure what Stats Can have to do with this. As you point out NAV CANADA has no jurisdiction over the TPA but the reverse is also true. That means that NAV CANADA may change the name in the publications or it may not. In this case it would appear likely that it will but there is no guarantee that they will. Until they do, or more likely a NOTAM is issued, the airport has two official names. As far as the TPA is concerned the official name is Billy Bishop Toronto City Airport and until 0901Z 11 February 2009, assuming they are going to change the name and a NOTAM is not issued earlier NAV CANADA's official name is Toronto City Centre Airport. One name is used by the airport and the public and should be given prominence in the article. The other is used in the industry, pilots, radio operators and the like, and should be included but not as the main name. As soon as NAV CANADA indicate they are going to change the name then I will be back here to remove the old one. As the next cycle of publications is out 17 December the name would probably appear in the NOTAMS or weather after that. Enter CambridgeBayWeather, waits for audience applause, not a sausage 01:22, 12 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes this is true, but NAV CANADA have no authority over the official naming of the facility. They can decide not to refer to it as that, but it doesn't change the actual name of the airport itself. NAV CANADA references and naming and the actual name are really two different things. Yes they can decide on the name for the certification of the airport, but that has nothing to do with its actual official name. Canterbury Tail   talk  12:37, 12 November 2009 (UTC)


 * The Nav Canada name is not the official name. What you are referring to, is how Nav Canada lists it. Same for Stats Can listing. It is not a reliable source for the official name. It is an alternate name, an aviation nickname if you will. Transport Canada has approved the change. Alaney2k (talk) 15:14, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

OK, I've been trying to think of the best way to say it without upsetting anyone. So I've added a sentence to say that it will be listed as Toronto/City Centre Airport (not Toronto City Centre because it won't be listed as that), until at least February, which is sourced to the TPA and does not say that it is an official. I also removed the NOTAM source from the infobox, along with "Toronto City Centre Airport (former)" as former names are not really used there, and the first line as it in now way matches what it is sourcing. I find it amusing that what is used internationally, by ICAO for example, can't be considered official and is only a nickname. Alaney2k has it right though in that it's an alternate name which is what I've been saying all along. Enter CambridgeBayWeather, waits for audience applause, not a sausage 23:16, 12 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Sounds reasonable to me. Canterbury Tail   talk  23:49, 12 November 2009 (UTC)


 * The article is appropriately done now. I am glad. Despite CambridgeBayWeather not understanding, it's worked out okay, and in the end that's what matters. Alaney2k (talk) 18:55, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Naming; a question
The first sentence of this article reads:


 * Billy Bishop Toronto City Airport (IATA: YTZ, ICAO: CYTZ), also known as Toronto City Centre Airport or, most commonly, Toronto Island Airport is a small airport located on the Toronto Islands in Toronto, Ontario, Canada.

(my caps)

WP:NAME says:


 * Articles are normally titled using the most common English-language name of the subject of the article.

So why is this article not called Toronto Island Airport?. -- Starbois (talk) 14:31, 24 December 2009 (UTC)


 * The official name is Billy Bishop. Is that good enough? Alaney2k (talk) 17:56, 26 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Well not really. Official or not, if another name is much more commonly used then that should be what we use to name the article. At 3000 miles distance, I don't know if that is true or not, but the text of the article suggests it. But no big deal; it just seemed worth asking the question. -- Starbois (talk) 20:02, 27 December 2009 (UTC)


 * WEll the name only changed a few weeks ago, it's too early to say what the newest common name will become. Canterbury Tail   talk  22:16, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Just can't figure out how they can name an airport with a name already in use at CYOS - home of Billy Bishop? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tex99999 (talk • contribs) 07:07, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I also disagree that it is most commonly called "Island Airport." Almost everywhere, I've heard it referred to as "Toronto City Centre Airport." O Airport of many names! WaltBren (talk) 13:10, 27 October 2010 (UTC)


 * I've searched through many newspaper archives over time to build up this article. Historically, people refer to it as 'island airport' mostly. Maybe -right now- it's City Centre Airport in the lead, although it's not called that anymore. They took out the Centre part when they added Billy Bishop in front. It could be a generational thing too. There is no way to quantify the most common current usage. Also, since it has had several names it makes sense to use the official name. Maybe the first sentence can change from 'most commonly' to simply 'commonly' without any debate. &#x0298; alaney2k  &#x0298; ( talk ) 16:57, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Please note that WP:COMMONNAME applies. A Google hit count would probable prove which name should be used, but the article itself states that the current article title is not the most common. Ng.j (talk) 14:35, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Must remove St. John's, Moncton and Halifax from Porter destinations
The convention with airport pages is to only list destinations that are flown from that airport. Connections or layovers are not qualified. Otherwise it would be reasonable to put Frankfurt, Germany as a destination for Thunder Bay on Air Canada -- why, you can connect through Pearson?

As a result, someone cannot fly directly to St. John's or Moncton on Porter from Toronto. Halifax is a seasonal route. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.231.235.132 (talk) 18:29, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Please familiarize yourself with the wording of the policy. Your scenario would be correct because it involves switching to a different aircraft at Pearson. However, Porter's flights to St. John's and Moncton use the same aircraft and same flight number. Thus, you treat it as a continuing journey. An example is the Air Canada's flight from Montreal to Ottawa to Iqaluit which uses the same flight number and thus Iqaluit is listed in both Montreal and Ottawa's airport destination lists. Same principle applies to seasonal direct flights to Halifax. OhanaUnitedTalk page 19:01, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Would it be appropriate to write "Moncton (via Montreal)" then? Not sure which guideline applies. &#x0298; alaney2k  &#x0298; ( talk ) 16:12, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * See WP:AIRPORT-CONTENT. "Via" is not appropriate. HkCaGu (talk) 17:15, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * But, since the list shows Halifax (direct) and Moncton (direct), I felt that there should be some way to differentiate for the year-round flights. Otherwise, you could remove the seasonal listings for those destinations, based on that same guideline. Maybe the seasonals should say non-stop instead. &#x0298; alaney2k  &#x0298; ( talk ) 18:14, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Assessment
This article appears to be just about ready for a peer review and possibly class=A or higher.  PK T (alk)  00:06, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually what I'd like to do is fork the History section, and move the Controversies section into a 'History of' article. I am working on it here: User:Alaney2k/History of Toronto Island Airport. Nearly ready for split proposal. &#x0298; alaney2k  &#x0298; ( talk ) 14:13, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Cleanup Part 1
Happened across this page in airfield research. Did my best to cleanup the leading paragraphs which were obviously expounded on by someone(s) with a political pov. All of the content which was deleted from the summary section appears later on in the article too, so there's no need to repeat it at the head. The beginning of the article now reads much better, but I left the cleanup tags. 70.36.212.48 (talk) 19:28, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Photos
I'm going to see what I can do over the next couple of weeks to take a few up to date aerial shots of the airport to update the woefully out of date ones we have. The one in the infobox is nearly 10 years old. I should be able to get approach to each runway (except 33 as that is now closed for the season,) shots from the south with the city in the background and maybe, maybe, a overhead (slightly to the side) shot. Assuming ATC co-operates of course. Canterbury Tail  talk  23:43, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
 * And take a few shots of the Porter planes parked at the terminal (and maybe inside the terminal shots too) OhanaUnitedTalk page
 * I have plenty of shots from my video cam of Porter planes parked right in front of me blocking the bloomin taxiways when I want to get to the runway to take off, does that count? :) Canterbury Tail   talk  00:01, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
 * When you are flying over an airport, I don't think ATC would allow you to get shots "inside the terminal". That would be some crazy stunt! Secondarywaltz (talk) 22:38, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Naming
I've noticed in airports on departure boards, flights to this airport are listed as Toronto-City not Toronto-Billy Bishop. Would it not make more sense to list the airport as Toronto-City on other airport's destination lists? ,, Thankyoubaby (talk) 05:31, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
 * I believe this is the official name that appears in the official document (Canada Flight Supplement) OhanaUnitedTalk page 05:57, 4 October 2014 (UTC)

Please read the discussion above under "Naming". This question has been discussed at length. Ground Zero | t 13:53, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
 * I am not interested in renaming this article, if you read what I wrote, I am inquiring why this airport is listed as Toronto-Billy Bishop on other airport's destinations list. YUL is officially Montréal–Pierre Elliott Trudeau International Airport, but on other airport's destinations lists, it is abbreviated as Montreal-Trudeau. Why is both "Billy" and "Bishop" included? Why does Wikipedia differ from the sources I listed? Thankyoubaby (talk) 00:16, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

Airport Tunnel
Should the newly built Airport Tunnel be added as a mode of transportation? http://www.bbtcatunnelproject.ca/ 22:37, 15 February 2016 (UTC)Matt12ho (talk)
 * Please see Billy Bishop Toronto City Airport pedestrian tunnel, or click the link on this article. Magnolia677 (talk) 23:54, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

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Runway 15/33
I've updated the article to remove 15/33 as a runway. The runway is now permanently closed, per NOTAMs, and will be converted into taxiways. Canterbury Tail  talk  02:20, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

Removing Moncton as a YTZ destination
Moncton was removed from the Air Canada list of YTZ destinations as AC "doesn't directly go to Moncton from here". In order to preserve a neutral stance in this entry, I propose it be removed from the Porter Airlines destination list for the same reason as they don't go directly there either but require an interim stop at Ottawa. Natty10000 | Natter 13:04, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Just a second request for feedback on removing Moncton as a YTZ destination Natty10000 | Natter  21:45, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

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Wrong info
The info in the infobox is wrong. There are three runways. Atleast on google maps.


 * The info in the infobox is quite correct, there are only 2 runways at Billy Bishop Airport. Used to be three but no longer. Already mentioned in the article. Canterbury Tail   talk  14:44, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

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