Talk:Birmingham City F.C.

Highest Transfer fee paid
Is the highest transfer fee paid not Christian Benitez as he moved for a INITIAL £6m? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.104.51.181 (talk) 08:39, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * will be, if he ever actually gets a visa to enter the country, gets a work permit, takes a medical, and signs a contract. Which he hasn't yet, but I'm sure when he does, the club will tell us. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 08:44, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * and as we speak, he has a visa. Getting there... cheers, Struway2 (talk) 10:19, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

captain
damien johnson is the captain however he is unavailable for two months meaning carsley is the stand in. therefore carsley is the club captain. jeez! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.104.51.181 (talk) 20:30, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
 * As Alex McLeish says on the club site here,  "Damien Johnson is our club captain but because of his injury Carso will wear the armband when the new campaign gets underway".  Carsley is the captain on the field, but Johnson remains the club captain, which is a different thing.  If you look at the article Captain (football), it explains the difference between club and team captains. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 20:40, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

A joke!
Since the 'Football Drive' added their information the article has looked absoloutely terrible since. There is a lot of tedious uninteresting information that has been included namley in the section titled 'Blues' in Europe'. Also It has no kind of persepctive from a Birmingham City fans point of view which I think is rather dissapointing.


 * The blues in Europe bit has been there for ages. The page hardly changed since before the football drive.

-- '''This page keeps on being vandalised by Birmingham city fans, trying to make the team sound more impressive. Can someone lock it please? I have just deleted "BCFC BEST IN THE WORLD" from the opening paragraph''' A lot of this page is waffle. It goes on and on about their performance in the top division, and adds tiny details, such as the apparent Atari ST cup. Could someone who specialises in Football pages please sort this page out. Thom32

--

On the right it lists their position this season, wheras on other teams pages it says their position at the end of last season. I'm going to change it

--

Is there any agreement on what constitutes a football 'honour'? I always thought that you had to win for it to be an honour, but this entry lists being a finalist as an honour.

--Smallbone10 23:57, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)

-- Could this page be split up more, because it has a lot of information that crams the page up, while Arsenal F.C. and Manchester United have it on separate pages, like the "History" section and the "Past Players" section?--GingerM 18:19, 13 December 2005 (UTC) -- Listing the club as relegated from the Premiership in mid-April seemed a bit cheeky - reverted to previous edit --85.210.185.108 23:26, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

--

Surely the demise of the 'Blue Nose' mascot to be replaced by some non-descript, generic model deserves a mention! Nicander 18:27, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

-- Someone should remove the Derby reference near the endPliny 21:14, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

--

Sorry what demise of the 'Bluenose' mascot? The Blue's mascot has always been a dog there has never been such a demise that you mention. - Aff

For at least one season a few years ago Birmingham featured a mascot which was dubbed the 'Bluenose' and was designed to resemble a giant blue nose. One of the most memorable mascots certainly. Nicander 20:00, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm a Birmingham City fan, and I've never seen this mascot. The Mayor 19:32, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Precisley I imagine this guy is a WUM. 83.104.51.181 12:00, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

There was a blue nose, he just resembled (from what I can remember) a giant furry blue ball. Fragmaroom

HELP ME
Having just seen Blues vs. Norwich (2006), I have witnessed the worst Blues performance of my life. I went to the 0-7 vs. Liverpool, but this was worst, at least then one team played well! I thought we got rid of the pre-madonna's in the team, but after this performance, I am wondering where the passion has gone! As a typcal Blues fan, I don't ask for much, just players putting in a bit of effort. I need consolation, as I am beginning to lose what Blues are supposed to be doing in this division. Please give me the other side of the coin, because I seem to have lost it. Millm0w 07:55, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

'Prima donna'. Nicander 14:48, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

PRIMA DONNA? you cheeky b*****d. Millm0w 14:18, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, he was correcting your 'pre-madonna'... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.42.231.52 (talk) 01:00, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

YouTube links
This article is one of thousands on Wikipedia that have a link to YouTube in it. Based on the External links policy, most of these should probably be removed. I'm putting this message here, on this talk page, to request the regular editors take a look at the link and make sure it doesn't violate policy. In short: 1. 99% of the time YouTube should not be used as a source. 2. We must not link to material that violates someones copyright. If you are not sure if the link on this article should be removed or you would like to help spread this message contact us on this page. Thanks, ---J.S (t|c) 05:06, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Season-by-season positions
Sorry to remove these after a user tabled them, which must have taken some time. But they're fairly trivial and have no real place in the article. HornetMike 19:47, 23 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Someone has put them back up. I'm going to take them down.

Crest and Blues in Europe sections
I've just reinstated these. Crest was vandalised but not restored when the vandalism was removed. Blues in Europe looks like it went by accident. Struway 14:28, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Most capped player?
in Honours section. Someone changed it to Forssell, with 40 caps - him it can't be, because he won a good half of them before joining Blues. Presumably it's supposed to show the number of caps won by the player while he's at the club - I was going to just change it back to what it said before, i.e Malcolm Page with 28, but it isn't any more.

For instance, this page shows Damien Johnson had 14 caps when he came to Blues, and this one says he has 46 now, so that's 32 won while at Blues. But there may be others - does anyone know how many Lazaridis won while at Blues? or any other suggestions (ideally with sources)? Struway (talk) 23:22, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
 * According to this site, which has team lists for all recent Australia internationals, and distinguishes between 'A' and 'B' games, Lazaridis won 33 caps while at Blues, so I'm going to add that. Any verifiable advance on 33 gratefully received! Struway (talk) 15:52, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Aston Villa -- Unique???
I know that Aston Villa can make many claims about being 'special' but playing in two cities is not one of them. Aston has never been a city.

Also why ois there a reference towards the bottom of this. I cvan't see the relevance of Aston Manor or anything to do with Aston. I'm deleting it!

Fair use rationale for Image:Bcfclogo.png
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If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 02:38, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

St Andrews capacity
Well spotted the person who noticed the mistake! Whoever wrote this section in the first place (and the St Andrews (stadium) article) took their info pretty well straight from the 2000 official Encyclopedia of Birmingham City, which does say 43,204. Presumably(?) a typo for 53,204, as the official attendance for the Cup QF in 1972 was 52,470. I'll change the St Andrews article as well, which says the same. Struway2 | Talk 10:38, 2 August 2007 (UTC) I wasat that game and the claimed capacity then was 53,000 (I was alsthere when they played Cardiff City with 49,056 in the ground that year.--217.38.121.254 12:42, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

1905 surely there is an innaccuracy here as Aston Villa wer alreadyin the football league as founder members so Small Heath were not the only league team in Birmingham --217.38.121.254 12:42, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi, if you click on the note by that sentence (note number 3, at the moment) it explains that. Obviously Aston Villa are an older club, but the point is that they were based in the borough of Aston Manor, which wasn't part of the City of Birmingham at the time. Hope that helps, cheers, Struway2 | Talk 13:48, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Some suggestions which will no doubt turn up at PR
For the benefit of, I've reviewed the article to pick up some points that will inevitably crop up at a peer review which precedes a FAC. Here they are:
 * History section titles need work, see other club FA's.
 * removed


 * "Inspired by..." - POV.
 * reworded (Womack captaincy one), though I've left in (and referenced) the "inspirational Christophe Dugarry"


 * Not sure semifinal is a single word, thought it ought to be hyphenated (as it is in the reference).
 * Chambers would disagree with you


 * "...FA Cup semifinal and win promotion..." - no real need to italicise.
 * reworded


 * Citations look best in numerical order (so [42][1] would be preferable as [1][42]).
 * done all I've spotted


 * Shower curtain kit sounds interesting, any chance of creating it instead of, say, the current third choice kit?
 * don't know how to. I'd photograph one but you don't see many about (can't imagine why).


 * Penultimate para of Colours etc has no citation.
 * done


 * Stadium section ought to be Stadiums, starts awkwardly with bullet list of grounds, and has only a single subsection, that of St Andrews. Needs expansion.
 * rewritten


 * Also, the section on St Andrews needs work. No citations to speak of and sentences like "St Andrews was built on an old gypsy camp. The gypsies are reputed to have put a curse on the ground when they were evicted. Fans still blame this when the club has a string of bad results." really need citation, quotation, reliable sources etc.
 * rewritten


 * I know the Notable Managers section is an overview but it could do with some citation.
 * will have soon has now


 * I would be tempted to incorporate some discussion over the new stadium in the Stadium(s) section rather than as a See also bullet...
 * done


 * Use en-dash for page ranges in references.
 * done all I've spotted

Hope that helps. The Rambling Man 17:16, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

GA review comments
Well, here they are, in no particular order of significance...!
 * Some citations should be moved so they meet WP:CITE, so immediately after punctuation if at all possible (e.g. [61], [73], [76] and a later use of [11])
 * WP:CITE says Some words, phrases or facts must be referenced mid-sentence, while others are referenced at the end. Frequently, a reference tag will coincide with punctuation... Presumably that means sometimes a reference tag won't coincide with punctuation, if the word/phrase/fact being referenced hasn't got any?
 * I've moved/shuffled/reworded the [61]s, the [76] (now 77), the [78] (now 79) and the [11].
 * As to [73] (now 74), the sentence goes funded the purchase of players Brian Roberts in 1984[74] and Paul Peschisolido in 1992.[27]. I wouldn't have a problem to moving [74] to the end, but as it's clearly desirable for them to stay in logical order (to reflect the order in which the items referenced occur within the sentence, Roberts' [74] before Pesch's [27]) they'd be out of numerical order, which seems to bother some people; what would you advise?


 * Aha, perhaps I need to revise my knowledge of WP:CITE! No, you're right, if that's the current wording then your article is absolutely fine.  The Rambling Man (talk) 17:31, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Petty perhaps but I don't like the short opening paragraph of the history section and the placement of the image.
 * rearranged


 * "...make up for the lack of goals, Bradford excepted, the other end.[11] " - at the other end?
 * don't know where the at went, it was there in the draft version


 * "Harry Storer was appointed manager in 1945. In his first ..." flow together and where the semi-colon appears, make it a full-stop... would improve the flow in my opinion.
 * reworded


 * 16 paragraphs in the History section, I'd prefer to see half as many with better flow between them.
 * rearranged to some extent. Before this goes for FA (if it ever does) I intend to have another go at structuring/cutting down the History section, but can't face it at the moment.


 * "...he made them play..." I know what you mean, but some may not.
 * reworded


 * "...saw Birmingham make their highest ..." achieve rather than make?
 * done


 * "game best remembered for City's goalkeeper Bert Trautmann playing the last 20 minutes with a broken bone in his neck." citation required, especially for "best remembered" - that's WP:OR, perhaps "notable for"?
 * reworded, added citation at end of paragraph which covers whole paragraph


 * "...raised their game ..." not sure about this. Again, could be perceived as WP:OR.
 * added to the quote from the source book in the footnote. It's a problem with book sources, where you can't reasonably go into huge amounts of detail in the body of the article, but if you don't it can look like OR or POV


 * "...luring Stan Cullis out of retirement to manage the club." needs citation.
 * covered by citation at end of next sentence, need it be repeated?


 * "Saunders' team could not score goals ..." I bet they could, they just weren't particularly accomplished at doing so? Slight rephrase for those who don't know what you mean!
 * reworded, though could not isn't much of an exaggeration :-(


 * "The club was in turmoil on and off the field." too journalistic for my taste.
 * changed to lacked stability


 * "Then the ..." when exactly?
 * done


 * "...and allowed Cooper money for signings." citation required.
 * covered by citation at end of next sentence, need it be repeated?


 * "...unconvincing mid-table finish." WP:OR again.
 * removed unconvincing for want of decent citation. I find it very difficult to discuss the period from around Christmas 2004 to October 2006 without lapsing into OR/POV.


 * "a teenage boy died, crushed when a wall collapsed; this was on the same day as the Bradford fire, and the events at St Andrew's were included in the remit of Mr Justice Popplewell's report into the safety of sports grounds.[25]" not sure but that reads almost identically to the same part in the history section.
 * so it did


 * "with fans taking home a significant proportion as souvenirs" needs citation.
 * rearranged


 * Honours should have a citation.
 * done. A list of Birmingham Senior Cup winners which used to be on the Birmingham County FA website seems to have disappeared, so I've had to resort to the fansite (though the late much-lamented bcfc-archive from which they source their information was reliable). Did you know, the only featured English football club articles which cite their honours section are Aston Villa, Leek Town, Margate and Norwich City?


 * Ipswich does too, just not as obviously! (I should do better!) The Rambling Man (talk) 17:34, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Don't need a Current staff secion really.
 * possibly not, but is it a problem? Featured articles Aston Villa F.C., Gillingham F.C. and Manchester City F.C. do have such a section.
 * P.S. Just to clarify that all I'm implying when mentioning what other featured articles have/have not done, is that I looked at other featured articles when deciding what sections to include and where/how much citation was needed. I'm aware of WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS, and don't have a problem with changing stuff where it needs changing. Struway2 (talk) 16:44, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Other than that it's very very good and is a great base for heading to FA with some more work. I'll put the GA on hold for the moment so you can attend to the comments - let me know when you're after a re-review. Cheers! The Rambling Man (talk) 10:46, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Cool. Promoting now.  Well done, good work, and please, please consider FA as soon as you feel like it!  The Rambling Man (talk) 19:14, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Featured Articles
Just seen that the Villa's page is a featured article. Any chance someone could help get the Blues page featured article status. I have never gone through the process so it would be better for someone else to do this for me. --Gking92 (talk) 21:19, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Club, squad or team captain?
I see Carsley is listed as Blues' captain. As Carsley is now essentially a squad player, shouldn't Stephen Carr be listed as our captain? Carr is definitely the 'team' captain and Carsley, arguably, is the 'club' captain but instead of making things complicated why don't we list Carr as the captain? It's unlikely he'll be replaced even if Carsley becomes a regular starter. King of Mercia (talk) 20:16, 15 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I'd agree it's a bit misleading now that Carsley plays so rarely. But last time they both started, away at Arsenal, bcfc.com listed Carsley as captain and referred to "captain Lee Carsley" in the prose, so if that's what they say, we can't really decide something different. Damien Johnson's still club captain, and presumably will remain so until he leaves the club. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 21:35, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Owner
The owner is Birmingham International Holdings, as Carson Yeung did not had a controlling interests (>50%) to the holding company. Mr. Liu Xingcheng own 14% share, Ms. Zhou Xin owned 9.88% and Carson Yeung only owned 18.54%. As we don't know Zhou and Liu's relation, Yeung nominally the largest shareholder but there is rumour that there is a de facto major share holder behind. Matthew_hk  t  c  05:09, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Indeed, and thanks for updating. The ownership details had never been changed since the club was bought by Grandtop when it was under Yeung's control. Another time, though, when you make changes, please remember to add a reference for them. As to the rumoured "major shareholder", in the current circumstances I wish that she or he would a) pass the fit and proper person test and b) show us the money..... cheers, Struway2 (talk) 09:03, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Squad table format
A discussion is being held here on the possibility of rolling out a new squad template. The new template, named football squad player2, differs from the standard squad layout in several ways:
 * It features a sort function
 * Comes in a single column format that can be understood by screen readers.
 * Single column format ensures that low resolution browsers, including mobile devices, do not get part or all of the second column cut off.
 * Single column format ensures less clutter, particularly at lower resolutions, for wide sections such as the Arsenal loan section.
 * It gives nationality its own column; at present flags are featured in a blank, untitled column
 * It complies with Wikipedia's guidance on flag usage.
 * It leaves enough space to add images of current players, an example of which can be seen at Watford F.C.

It is proposed that the new template be added to some of Wikipedia's most high-profile club articles, which might include. To give your thoughts, please read and contribute to the discussion at WikiProject Football.

Regards, Edinburgh   Wanderer  19:37, 24 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I know Birmingham is 10 years behind the rest of the world but please use the standard squad table template that practically every other football team article uses. 194.217.118.50 (talk) 11:00, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

Jeff Lynne is a supporter, wrote song 'Birmingham Blues'
Jeff Lynne, the musical artist and founder of ELO, is a Blues supporter. He wrote the song 'Birmingham Blues' on the album 'Out of the Blue.' Jrgilb (talk) 06:28, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

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Nickname
The club's nickname in the infobox and the lead section has been "Blues" for many years. It was the sort of thing that in those days nobody bothered sourcing because it was a well-known fact. In the last few days, it's been changed several times to "The Blues". I added a couple of sources, both of which list nicknames as part of the basic information in each club's entry – Sky Sports Football Yearbook, and the UEFA presskit for one of the Europa League matches, data for which is supplied by the club's press officer – but the changes continued. So here are some more sources for plain Blues, and I'll invite the other editor to discuss the matter here.

Additional sources:


 * Books: Tony Matthews' Birmingham City: A Complete Record and Encyclopedia of Birmingham City Football Club 1875–2000 consistently use Blues. So does Hyder Jawad's Keep Right On: The Official Centenary of St Andrew's.


 * The BCFC website: e.g. https://www.bcfc.com/news/articles/2018/st-andrew-s-and-wast-hills-naming-rights/ has multiple uses of Blues and not "the Blues": in the sentence "Blues are owned by Birmingham City PLC, which is in turn owned by Birmingham Sports Holdings Ltd", if "the Blues" were correct, it would certainly be used. And https://www.bcfc.com/club-and-fans/club/history/carling-cup-winners-2011/ uses just Blues, not "the Blues".


 * The match programme was called "Blues" News as long ago as the 1920s: http://www.evertoncollection.org.uk/object?id=796%20EFC%2f7%2f39%2f1&p=1#title


 * Google search of bbc.co.uk https://www.google.com/search?q=site:bbc.co.uk+"birmingham+city"+blues returns far more use of plain Blues than "the Blues", many of which are adjectival uses e.g. "the Blues board". Ignoring headlines, where the plain Blues usage might be a sub-editorial abbreviation, Blues is the normal usage within sentences, e.g. "Former Birmingham City captain Paul Robinson is eyeing a coaching role with Blues following his retirement as a player, at the age of 39. Robinson was without a club and even contemplating quitting the game then when he first joined Blues on a one-month trial deal in September 2012.", "Monk will take charge of Blues for the first time", etc etc


 * Local paper: e.g. https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/xuandong-ren-birmingham-city-transfer-14971273 multiple and consistent use of Blues. If you have access to newspaper archives online, you'll get similar results for the Birmingham papers certainly as far back as the 1950s.

I'm not claiming "the Blues" is never used: that'd be daft. It is used, even on the club site on occasion, but that doesn't make it the "correct" nickname. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 13:53, 31 July 2018 (UTC)


 * The Club's nickname is "The Blues". The biggest proof of this is written in massive letters on the Tilton Road Stand, spelling out "THE BLUES".
 * Check this out, the Tilton Road Stand: https://www.google.com/search?q=tilton+road+stand&client=firefox-b-ab&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwifoK657cvcAhViIcAKHTeMBZAQ_AUICygC&biw=1626&bih=983 People get it wrong and the wrong nickname is misused by several places. The 100% correct nickname is "The Blues"
 * the nickname is interchangeable. You'd never hear somone say "He is the worst The Blues player, ever", but you would hear "Are you going down The Blues"
 * Thanks for replying. I saw your message on your talk page and was about to reply there, but best keep it together here. I could say the same as you did on your talk: I was born and raised in the city, and sit in the Tilton every home match. And despite what the lifelong Cardiff/West Ham fans who then owned the club had written in coloured seats, I know that they're Blues and not The Blues. Which is why we have to go with what the reliable sources say rather than what "we" know to be true...
 * Where the names could be interchangeable grammatically, like in the sentences about Robinson's "coaching role with Blues" and "first joined Blues", people nearly always use Blues, not the Blues. I'm aware that the Blues is used, and you're right about people saying "going down the Blues". So I wouldn't object to that being listed as an alternative, but not instead of plain Blues, which is backed up by very many reliable sources, including what the club told UEFA its nickname was, to go on the Europa League press kits: http://www.uefa.com/printoutfiles/competitions/uefacup/2012/e/e_2007315_pk.pdf and scroll down to page 5. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 13:23, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

OK, let's have 2 nicknames listed, The Blues and Blues. (Not sure if you're aware but on the Chelsea page, they also have listed "Blues" and "The Blues"

Is it "Come on Blues", or "Come on The Blues"??!
 * Let's not have two nicknames, unless you want to go through and add a secondary nickname to each club that has a one word moniker. Let's just go with adding a "The" and being done with it? - J man708 (talk) 17:09, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Why would we "just go with" the version without reliable published sources to support it?
 * I still reckon the Blues is restricted to (a) occasions when it works better in spoken English, particularly in colloquial use, or in the rhythm of a song: you have to say "Up the Blues!" or "go down the Blues", but "Come on Blues" works so that's what people shout; or (b) use by people/writers/websites who assume that all nicknames have to be preceded by the: that would include the seats in the Tilton stand which were installed by new owners with no knowledge of the club.
 * Today's offerings on the BCFC website and well-known Brummie and Blues fan Tom Ross on the Birmingham Mail website both use Blues, not the Blues.
 * Personally, I think it'd work better for the article if we left it as just Blues in the infobox/lead, and then add a couple of sentences about nicknames in the supporters section, where it should be covered already but isn't even mentioned. But until this discussion reaches a conclusion, people shouldn't keep changing the page. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 08:30, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Chill! I only suggested going with one or the other because showing two names for the exact same thing because of syntax is stupidly redundant. Couldn't care less which is chosen, as long as it's one or the other. - J man708 (talk) 17:01, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 September 2020
Add "Sport Scientist Intern: Louis Titchener" to the club staff section BirminghamCityFan123 (talk) 16:27, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Not done. First because you didn't supply a source for your addition; second because such sections are supposed to include senior or notable staff, not all staff. This article currently draws the line at those mentioned on the first-team page HERE, which still seems quite a lot... cheers, Struway2 (talk) 16:37, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 April 2024
Change ‘St Andrews’ to ‘St Andrews @ Knighthead Park’ 92.236.226.224 (talk) 22:43, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Not done, if you meant change the infobox: conventionally, we don't use sponsored stadium names unless the stadium has never had an unsponsored name. But I have added it to a suitable place in the lead section. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 10:35, 10 April 2024 (UTC)