Talk:Bistro Agnes

Notability
What makes this restaurant notable? A handful of local-interest articles do not establish notability; Wikipedia is not a travel guide, and most of the article seems to be dedicated to the fact that it closed (not unusual, sadly). Mockingbus (talk) 11:58, 9 April 2022 (UTC)


 * @Mockingbus How about a review by The New York Times? Any chance you're willing to remove the banner? --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 20:18, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
 * @Another Believer – Not… really? It well-verified (you do an excellent job of that; I have to take my hat off on this matter) but Allchin is a PNW writer (a Portland native as called out in the article, so likely not making a special excursion for the review) and despite the NYTimes publication I don't really see the notable, the non-routine coverage – the "so what?. From the sources it feels like the restaurant got some routine (if, in one case, well-placed) coverage in its opening year and then nothing at all until its extended demise.
 * Again, it feels like the most significant thing about it is that it closed, and that was sadly not unusual at all in the circumstances.
 * I'm not prepared to bicker too much about the matter, though (there are better things to bicker about), and I freely admit I might be taking an overly-stiff view on 'notability'; I'm happy to defer to a neutral WP:3O if you are. (Sorry for the delayed response, by the way; it's that time of year. Happy holidays!) –Mockingbus (talk) 04:52, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
 * @Mockingbus I've added this source, this source, and quite a few others. Open to getting more editor feedback however you think is best, if you feel that's still necessary. --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 02:03, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I really don't think that helps; in fact I think it might make the case worse. There's so much noise and fluff involved that I feel like much of it borders on spam. I don't have the time to do a point-by-point review, but let's pull these and some of the 'quite a few others' and take a quick closer look.
 * FSR Magazine makes a brief mention of the fact that the Dentons remodeled the space while converting it from Ox. It's the least-covered restaurant in the article, which is not about restaurants as such, but about remodeling and re-conceptualizing them.
 * "Portrait Magazine" is properly Portrait of Portland, which is fine, but taking a look at the overall magazine suggests that it's mostly a designer-furnishings-and-remodeling catalog with some local fluff coverage. Advertisements for architects, contractors, and real estate agents appear to make up most of the page count, and most of the rest is product listings.
 * Unique Eats and Eateries of Portland, Oregon is a side-mention in coverage of Ox. This might be good for establishing notability of Ox'' (I can't say; Google Books won't let me read very much of the book and I'm not inclined to buy it), but notability is not inherited.
 * "The interior featured blue walls, brass railings, mirrors, and vintage French posters." - This is a scene-setting detail in a pre-opening announcement.
 * "Alyssa Schwartz said "Bistro Agnes is so classically Parisian it almost comes full circle back to edgy." - This is a one-paragraph, opening-year mention in a travel-capsule type article. A bit like the New York Times coverage (but even more so), it seems like an awfully thin hook to hang an article on. That might be "a me thing".
 * "Hannah Wallace included Bistro Agnes in Condé Nast Traveler's 2018 list of the 21 best restaurants in Portland." - I'll admit this is a relatively significant listicle, but it's still a one-shot listicle in the restaurant's first year. If the restaurant were a perennial entry on Traveler's lists I'd be more inclined to concede the point.
 * 'She said the restaurant had "classic French comfort food executed with precision" and a "friendly, stylish French bistro" vibe. Wallace said Bistro Agnes offered "Parisian sophistication in PDX" with "affable and attentive" service and "awesome" wines. - That's very nearly the whole "review". Besides skirting up on copyright concerns, this is nearly as superficial and incidental as coverage gets.
 * "Described as a "classic Paris bistro"" - Nearly half of this "coverage" is made of the restaurant's address, website, opening hours, and price range. Superficial travel guide coverage, again.
 * My concern has never been the number of sources you can pile onto this article; it's their quality and an overall sense of significance that I feel is lacking. I think I'm not the only one; I see filed a (procedurally closed) motion to delete this article over the holidays. Maybe they'd like to comment (I hope in a friendly, civil way? You seem to have a contentious history with each other?)? I do think this needs a more thorough review by more editors, but I'm not sure where that's supposed to be. –Mockingbus (talk) 04:50, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

Sigh, I see the tag is back even though User:HelpingWorld had removed. I agree with tag removal. --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 14:17, 17 September 2023 (UTC)


 * The editor who added the tag said they are "happy to defer to a neutral WP:3O". Since another editor also thinks the tag is unnecessary, I will remove soon unless anyone objects. Thanks! -- Another Believer ( Talk ) 17:51, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * ✅ --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 21:04, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Source
--- Another Believer ( Talk ) 20:16, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
 * https://www.wweek.com/restaurants/2018/04/24/the-chefs-behind-ox-recover-from-disappointment-with-bistro-agnes/

Comments from TWOrantula
Gonna take this one, too. TWOrantula TM (enter the web) 00:29, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * The three (or four) citations in the lead could be relocated somewhere.
 * Agreed. It would be a tremendous help if someone with fresh eyes could review these four sources to determine if they have any additional details to add to the article body. Is this something you might be able to help with before a co-nom? I'll also make some adjustments based on your feedback below. Thanks! --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 21:26, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Sure!  TWOrantula  TM (enter the web) 21:44, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Take your time, there's no rush. --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 21:46, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * ✅ Ready for GAN! :D  TWOrantula  TM (enter the web) 22:53, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you! --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 23:04, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * ✅ --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 23:20, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * The lead focuses a little too much on the restaurant's reception. Some historical context before the COVID-19 pandemic would balance it out.
 * Added a bit more history; trimmed reception. --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 21:34, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * The Oregonian and Portland Mercury included Bistro Agnes in lists of the city's best new restaurants, and Condé Nast Traveler included it in a list of Portland's 21 best. - The publication names can be mentioned later in the article body.
 * Removed, but feel free to tinker with the language if you have something else in mind. --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 21:34, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * What's the citation in the lead (Guzior 2022) for?
 * soft-opening dinners - "diners"?
 * Nope! Just means they hosted a few dinners for select guests before opening to the public. --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 00:41, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Reworded a quote (or two) about how the restaurant was renovated. If the facts are inaccurate, please correct it.
 * [Little picky] Citation #31 (Bjorke 2022) could use the Cite Web template instead of Cite Journal
 * ✅ --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 00:41, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Not sure why there are two photos of the building in the same year.
 * Agree! Removed --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 00:41, 15 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Should we add the manager to the article body, maybe after the third chef? Right now there's not a source for him in the infobox. --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 23:25, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * That would seem better.  TWOrantula  TM (enter the web) 23:32, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * ✅ --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 01:46, 16 July 2024 (UTC)