Talk:Bitburg

Translation
I placed a request on the translation page to translate the German version of this article as it's got a lot more info on the city than just the Reagan controversy. Ellsworth 21:15, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that Bitburg has a lot more history than this...
IMHO,this biased article could use some more demographical and historical(pre-World War II)info...Ranma9617 03:58, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Added some historical background. Probably needs more. --Polylerus 19:02, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

Year
When did Reagan's visit occur? The date is given but not the year. --Myles Long 18:01, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
 * It's there now. Ellsworth 14:41, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Michael Moore
This looks suspicious:


 * When Reagan arrived at the cemetery, Michael Moore and a Jewish friend of his whose parents were at Auschwitz were there with a banner that read "WE CAME FROM MICHIGAN: THEY KILLED MY FAMILY". They were shown on live TV networks across the country.

Is there a source on this? At the time Moore wasn't a national media figure. I'm not saying it didn't happen. Ellsworth 14:41, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

And, even if it happened, I don't see why it should be mentioned here on Wikipedia. Among other things, all polemics against President Reagan, who sure can't be accused of any sympathy for the Nazis, were artfully created by the worst left. - Zorobabele

Please correct
I'm an german Wikipedian from Bitburg and I found a few mistakes or a few things which cold be added. I dont speak English very good. Cold you please add them?
 * When Bitburg was founded, it was on the road between Trier and Köln.
 * Bitburg was build as an castle. The area of the castle is still the centre of the town
 * The air base is not the heart of the city. It is located ca. 3 km away fron the centre. It was built 1965. It is an NATO-Airbase. After ist was closed in 1994, it was changed into an industrial area. At the moment, a few parties try to reopen the aribase as an industiral airport.
 * There is an american housing in Bitburg. Many houses are beeing teared off now, because many american people move to the housing of Spangdahlem. Some people say that the housing of Bitburg is not save enough because there are many public roads around it.

IMO an own article about Ronald Reagans visit can be written. --Oliver Tölkes 10:04, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Picture
Today, I loaded up a picture of Bitburg on Wiki Commons. Can someone please add it to the article? --Oliver Tölkes 09:26, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

"NPOV"
There is much coverage of the reaction to Reagan's visit to Bitburg. Perhaps this section can be condensed.- Gilliam 05:58, 11 August 2007 (UTC)


 * As far as I could see, there is no other presidential or state visit that gets this much coverage. There are no such events with their own articles in wikipedia, not even the IMO much more significant visit of prime minister Sharon to the Temple mount in September 2000 (see Second Intifada). I suggest someone condenses this section, I'll replace the (IMO not applicable) POV tag with the Shorten tag. Markussep Talk 16:08, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

No, I think this is a very important part Bitburg has played in History, and the article has indepth coverage, which does not adversely affect readability. If you must, move it to a separate topic, but don't condense it. ThumbFinger (talk) 23:57, 27 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I think there are some details in the section that aren't really encyclopedic, and the style of writing is too personal/subjective. No big deal, but I guess someone (you?) should look into it. Markussep Talk 09:31, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

How many SS?
I have also seen sources giving the number of Waffen-SS conscripts buried at the cemetery is 56. Anyone got a definitive answer? Ellsworth 21:23, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * Does it matter? The men buried in this cemetery haven't committed any crimes. Just soldiers fighting for their country. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.135.87.111 (talk • contribs).


 * These soldiers also deported and executed Jews. And they hindered Allied soldiers from stoppin the Holocaust.--Carabinieri 12:36, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

You've got no proof whatsoever that any member of the Waffen SS buried at Bitburg was involved in deporting and executing anyone. In a court of law your statement would be thrown out as nonsense as you've got not a shred of eveidence against any one of these men. Maybe you can name them all and list the crimes attributed to each of them alongside. Now that would be interesting. As for the second part of your statement, they hindered allied troops from stopping the Holocaust. I suppose you could argue that every single German soldier/sailor/airman and German civilian for that matter are all guilty because they all hindered the Allied advance. You probably haven't got a clue as to the individual stories and backgrounds of any of the men buried in that cemetery. But you abuse them anyway, just because of their uniform. It's disgusting. And while we're on the topic. It's a pity that they didn't hinder those savages in the Red Army. Maybe not so many German girls would have been raped and murdered by that Communist scum that occupied Eastern Europe for the 40+ years after World War 2. Don't forget the Waffen SS fought and died against Stalin's own Holocaust. But that doesn't matter does it!!.

You are correct. I was stationed at Spangdahlem AB during Regan's visit and attended the presidential visit. Those of us stationed there had no idea what the controversy was about. I personnaly visited the cemetary prior to the President's visit and the only SS graves I noticed were those of young boys, 15, 16, and 17 years old. They all died in the closing days of the war, proving that they were not the hard core SS depicted by the media. More than likely they were comparable to the volksturm; old men and young boys recruited at the end as a last ditch effort to defend their country. I personally knew several German WWII veterans and had respect for these individuals that did as we did - they defended their country in a time of war. I have pictures from my visit in 1985 and will provide them upon request. MSgtUSAFret —Preceding unsigned comment added by MSgtUSAFret (talk • contribs) 18:14, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
 * The true scandal is the Brewahaha made about it. I don't see the same people protesting, when the graveyards of Allied soldiers are visited, even when those buried there belonged to infamous units. 41.151.7.147 (talk) 11:28, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Proportionality
This, like all other such entries, is supposed to be an article about the city. Instead, it's been conflated with (and overwhelmed by) an account of a highly controversial but brief and relatively minor event that took place there 30 years ago.

The Reagan visit controversy section, at 1,500 words, comprises two-thirds of the 2,300-word Bitburg entry. This is drastically out of proportion, and inappropriate, especially for a town whose history dates from the era of Charlemagne.

While this notable event certainly should be mentioned in the present article, the detail presented here obviously should be packaged in a separate Bitburg Controversy article. This is the case on German WP, where the 1,800-word Bitburg article's history section summarizes the controversy in one paragraph, then links to a separate, 1,300-word entry on the controversy.Sca (talk) 13:40, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Accordingly, I moved the Bitburg Controversy material to a separate article: Bitburg controversy (1985). Sca (talk) 15:32, 26 May 2015 (UTC)