Talk:Black market/Archive 1

Grey market
When the unofficial price is lower than the officilly set price, a grey market is said to exist. For example, when producers set a higher price for essentially the same product in country A than in country B, a grey market will spontaneously arise in country A as arbitragers imports cheaper substitutes from country B to country A. In other words, arbitragers have simply defeated producers' attempt to segment the market for the purpose of price discrimination. Legality is not involved here. If legality is the primary criterion for defining what is a black market, then we would have overlooked some of the most interesting issues relating to price control, price support, and price discrimination. aiyo so sian le history...

Article "The Black Economy"
Someone created the article The Black Economy, which should obviously redirect here. Can someone knowledable about this article look at that one, merge in here anything y'all find useful there that this article lacks, and leave a redirect behind. Thanks. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 02:58, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

I don't know... Even though "The black economy" could be considered a black market operation of labor, it's not exactly the same. The black economy is more tham that. Someone could receive unreported income (that would be a black market operation), but then the money will probably be used on legal transactions. Yet, a very important part of it is that you cannot just spend and spend and spend, because you risk being detected. The black economy could be seen as the consequences of that "black market sale of labor", it's more than just the act of "sale". The article (black economy) should probably be rewritten, but the concept is pretty much on target.

Now that I've checked a few related terms, I think "Black economy" should be redirected, but to "underground economy".

Black?
Was the slave trade a black market? Is it today? --Damian Yerrick (☎)

Back in the day when slavery was prevalent, it was so prevalent and no country really did anything to stop it to the point where it might not have been legal (although since it was legal to own a slave, I'm sure it was legal to transport them), but I doubt I would consider it part of the black market. Today, most forms of slavery are technically illegal and the transport of a slave for any reason is considered human trafficking by most countries, and this is a highly illegal practice in most places in the world.

Discussion, the use of the term "black market" (as opposed to "underground" or "informal") is largely considered an offensive term.
 * The term "black market" has nothing to do with the negro slave trade of the USA. --WoodElf 06:49, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
 * And the slave trade to the United States was not outlawed until 1808, as one of the several compromises made between the Northern and Southern states during the drafting of the U.S. Constitution. --Fsotrain09 20:55, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I think "largely" is the wrong word to use here. You're the first person I've ever heard say that. Perhaps you should be less "offended", instead! --24.199.103.240 19:12, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The word 'bl**k' is now considered offensive, regardless of context. The new term is 'Differently-Hued Market'.
 * That's what the pros call it! --Anonman 02:14, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Etymology of the phrase
The article used to contain the following text:


 * Original "black market": During the 18th Century, many South Carolina slaves were encouraged to grow their own food and often had more than their families could eat. Black women formed a secret transportation system to get their goods to market. This system and the markets in Charleston where the goods were sold was called "The Black Market". As they grew profitable, local government barred Whites from purchasing their foodstuffs, yet many continued to do so.

As far as I can tell, this is not true. One web page gives a first use in 1931, with no other information; another  claims that the Barnhart Dictionary of Etymology agrees. Yet another repeats the date, with no given source or explanation. Apparently the OED agrees too, and there is at least one unrelated fanciful description, this one dating back to the twelfth century. A quick google search does not reveal any non-Wikipedia derived mention of the given explanation, so I removed it.


 * I'm looking at the OED now, and the first three quotations given are (in full):


 * 1931 Economist 10 Jan. 60/1 The growth of an unofficial or 'black' market in sterling exchange.
 * 1935 Ibid. 5 Oct. 662/2 'Black market' quotations of Lit. 65-75 are reported in London.
 * 1941 New Statesman 26 Apr. 430/2 There is evidence of a 'black market' where food can be bought without restriction if the price is high enough.


 * It looks like it was a somewhat obscure bit of jargon until the War, when suddenly it was something most of the world needed to think about, and the phrase got widespread. Shimgray | talk | 10:36, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Who do I source, and can I use this?
I found this link off of slashdot. Its a list of a bunch of black market products, although the page calls it contraband products. It looks really interesting. But my question is, do we source slashdot, or the article that slashdot took it from (p2pnet.net), or do we just source the link (havocscope). But the two articles that link to the page are only concerned with piracy, but the link is more relevant to this page and could help with the examples section. So what should be done? I'm new, so I don't want to mess things up. here's the link to the page for black market: Also, would this link qualify as an external link? Or can we just take all the information from the link and incorporate it into the article without any source?
 * I don't think that info should be added at all. While it's a neat list to look at, it's not really useful information to know. A person coming here to learn about what a "black market" is will not benefit from the info in that list. In any case, in general, it would be better to link to things like that rather than adding the info to the article, because if you put it in the article, then somebody here has to be responsible for making sure the info here is always up to date. --24.199.103.240 19:09, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

BLACK MARKET?
where did the name black market come from? i wanna know!
 * See the first paragraph in the current article. --24.199.103.240 19:07, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Small Arms Trade
Does anyone know about how much an AK-47 would typically cost from the underground market? Any country?

It would vary hugely from country to country and region to region so documenting such figures would be impossible, SqueakBox 20:09, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Zimbabwe
It seems like the current black market situation in Zimbabwe would be another good addition to the examples list; where the black market is large and exists as almost the only way to realistically obtain goods/services given the government price controls and high inflation rate. But I don't know enough about it to be able to add anything more interesting than a link to some other pages. --24.199.103.240 19:06, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Merge

 * I am going to merge these articles now, please refrain from editing. Angelbo Talk / Contribs 12:47, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge complete. Angelbo Talk / Contribs 14:02, 5 May 2007 (UTC)