Talk:Black swan

For your consideration
-- Wetman (Wetman - Wetman) 01:07, 19 September 2004‎

Black Swan Theory
Shouldn't this page make some mention of Black Swan theory, or the old philosophical argument that said all swan's are white and a black swan is an impossible thing. Something about all that?

--Pollard666 (talk) 00:30, 17 November 2007 (UTC)


 * The argument (sort of the opposite of what you said) is that you can't prove all swans are white by observing the color of swans and seeing only white ones. All that proves is that you haven't been to Australia.  The generalization is that you can't prove something doesn't exist just by not being able to prove that it does.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiability#Inductive_categorical_inference  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.64.213.245 (talk) 00:44, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

earlier conversations
I have also seen a white swan with a black swan. They are in captivity. The owners wanted to see if they would breed. Whenever the black swan make a black swan noise the white swan attacked the black swan. When the black swan stopped making black swan noise the white swan stopped the attack. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Robert A. Curtis (talk • contribs) 09:57, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Hi, I spotted a Black Swan in a flooded gravel pit in Northampton UK this afternoon (28 May 2006). It was with a white swan. I guess it had escaped from captivity and paired up with one of the locals!

Hello, has there been many sightings of these in the USA? I'm sure I saw one last night on the Arkansas River. So if these birds are spotted in the U.S. should anything special be done?RbbrDuckmn 17:18, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
 * They are sighted in the US, but are not established. Instead any Black Swans seen here are escapees from collections (like zoos and ornamental gardens). Sabine's Sunbird 18:31, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
 * There are lots of species in the US that are escapees. I don't think there is any thing that is required to be done, although it never hurts to inform the local Humane Society. They might be able to catch them and rehome them (or return them to the original owners, as many zoo birds will be banded).Alternatively call your local birding organisation, who will either do something about it or send hundered of birders to list it. Sabine's Sunbird 02:19, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

Two Black Swans have that arrived in Southlake, TX on 3/17/2006, in the Dallas/Fort Worth area. We have a pond/lake surrounded by 11 homes in Southridge Lakes subdivision. The birds have been photographed and remain thru today 3/19/06.

We had an escapee float down to our property. As our community is small, we soon found the owners. He had been kicked out of their pond by his up-and-coming son. Since he stayed at our creek, we looked around and bought him a wife. They are happily cruising up and down their new territory (southeast PA), are very people-oriented and a great pleasure to have around.Juggins 14:30, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

None, none more black
The two Southern Hemisphere swans, the Black Swan of Australia and the Black-necked Swan of South America are different from the all-white Northern Hemisphere swans for having black coloration plumages.

To me this reads like "Black swans are different to white swans, as they're black, not white". It'd be better to say "Black swans are only found natively in Australia" or modify the quote from the 'swan' page: "The Northern Hemisphere species of swan have pure white plumage, but the Southern Hemisphere species are patterned with black. The Australian Black Swan (Cygnus atratus) is completely black except for the white flight feathers on its wings, and the South American Black-necked Swan has a black neck. The Coscoroba Swan, also from southern South America, has black tips to the primary feathers."

Black Swan sighting NJ
I saw what I thought was a black swan in a pond near my home in Vernon, NJ. Everyone I told said no way. I googled black swan, and was surprised to discover their native home is Australia, and they are rare here. I went back today, saw the bird again and now have photographic proof. Laura, Vernon, NJ
 * They often escape from captivity, jimfbleak 06:43, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

There is a black swan that swims with three white swans in and around Lavallette, NJ as well. I have several pictures to document it. lhow.one@verizon.net July 6, 2007.

originally posted by User:Wikibojean on main page, moved to talk page Martybugs (talk) 00:29, 16 June 2008 (UTC):


 * At 5:45 pm June 15, 2008, a black swan was observed heading down a lagoon in the Ocean Beach II section of Toms River Township, New Jersey. This location is on the Barnegat Bay Island barrier island. At first the observer thought someone painted the bird when the bird stretched its wings the and white underside showed. The description of the swan ,atcjes is noted above. This website stated that these birds are native of Australia and no mention had been made of sightings in the United States. Perhaps it could be one of the "escapees" mentioned in Briton.

Hey My name is LAURA and i have seen this black swan in OB3 i have picture to prove it, he is beautiful we feed him a few mornings on vacation(he likes potato bread. i have tons of pictures. I have seen him 2 years in a row he is a local now, last seen August 2008. Email-- laaota07@yahoo.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.15.214.194 (talk) 13:31, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

For those who follow the balck swan of Lavalette and Ortley Beach, NJ, he is back again! For two weeks in July we spotted him trying to make friends with our two families of white Mute swans that live here. He was not welcome and the white swans have constantly chased him away. He has tried in vain to become their friends, but they have rejected him. This weekend we have not seen him. Nevertheless I find it absolutely astonishing that this apparent escapee from a zoo halfway around the world finds his way back here, to the exact same location, every summer. See photo attached.

Black Swans in Norfolk Broads
I am adding to the sighting list. I saw a pair at the Norfolk Broads in Norfolk county in the UK. My photo can be seen here.

- Mayuresh 19:03, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Minor edit
Changed "Both sexes are similar" to "The sexes are similar." (How can only one sex be similar?)

Kostaki mou 00:47, 13 January 2007 (UTC) We saw a black swan on the norfolk broads in october 2009. He was a beautiful bird. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.173.138.210 (talk) 14:43, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Black Swan lifestyle
Recently, an anon user 71.196.140.140 added some article about Black Swan homosexuality, that reached almost a "quarter" of their total population. The source of this "nonsense" is Livescience website, and after reading some of their articles, is totally questionable. There's no confirmed source or anything about the information (personal view ??) posted on their site. Anybody has more knowledge about the website or the swan' lifestyle ? --Stavenn 02:30, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
 * The website in question is kind of lite but many of the articles seem no worse than you'd find on many local news channel websites. There doesn't seem to be much in the way of references on the site though. The amounts seem high for sure (though that didn't stop MSNBC from quoting them! Lets see what we can find about this in other sources. Sabine's Sunbird talk 02:56, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I believe you're talking about the (CURRENTLY) 6th paragraph, which includes the sentence "According to the Web site "LiveScience", same-sex couples make up to 20 percent of all Black Swan pairings each year, and approximately 25 percent of all Black Swan pairs are of the same sex, and may live together for years". I've read this sentence about 10 times and I still can't decipher it. So, same-sex pairs make "up to" 20% of the population, and at the same time make up around 25% of the population.210.8.150.249 07:05, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The two different percentages make perfect sense when you factor in the swans that are not paired up. Up to 20% of the entire population, but 25% of the paired population, which is a subset of the entire population. Myk 14:01, 15 May 2007 (UTC) 13:56, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Also, I'm going to check out my local library for more info about that fact, and hopefully bring in an extra (printed) source.210.8.150.249 07:05, 14 March 2007 (UTC) (Perth, Western Australia)

The information is from the University of Oslo Natural History Museum in Norway, which is currently holding an exhibition called Against Nature? about animals exhibiting homosexuality. The wikipedia entry for the exhibition includes a link to the exhibition website, which in turn has a references page, all of which appear to be university publications of scientific studies, and presumably the source of the data for the exhibition. The information in the 6th paragraph could perhaps be more clearly expressed. I am tidying up the natural history section of the Black Swan page, and any feedback as this proceeds would be great.Thungarra 10:37, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I have been in touch with Natural History Museum in Oslo, and completely rewritten this section, with source materials referenced. Thungarra 04:51, 15 May 2007 (UTC) Black swans like to have homosexaul relationships..... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.89.202.118 (talk) 16:48, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Dhufish
This word appears in the text. Is it a typo? jimfbleak 05:32, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Slow-burn editwar
I've noticed a certain amount of reversing of edits regarding a link to a book in the ab message at the top of the page. Perhaps it would be best to discuss it here rather than continue and risk some 3Rness. As far as the arguments go, there are several instances that I've noticed where a single common derived term is linked in addition to the mani dab page (by derived I mean that all the various dab meanings are derived from the original meaning, in this case the Australian bird). I'm not sure that the book is a candidate in these circumstances, especially as it is itself a derived term from the theory of the same names (surely a better candidate if there is to be one).

Another thing, when id this article get so completely overfilled with cultural sections? It's a mess! Sabine's Sunbird  talk  23:18, 20 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I have now created a new page called Black Swan emblems and popular culture, and have transferred all of the 'cultural references', which were listed on the Black Swan page, to the new page &mdash; I have also added a 'See also' section on the Black Swan page, with a link to the new page. (This is similar to the Kangaroo emblems and popular culture page, to which there is a link from the 'See also' section of the Kangaroo page). Figaro 15:41, 21 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Re: the direct dab link. A search for "Black Swan" on Google has the book listed first and this article second. With the book currently #21 on the Amazon best seller list, it seems appropriate to provide a direct dab link to it so that people searching for the book, a currently common activity, can go directly to that article rather than going first to the dab page, reading down to the book link, and then clicking the link. Since this feature is used on other articles, seems reasonable to do it here. Regards, Rillian 15:34, 24 June 2007 (UTC)


 * blatant SPAM POV advertisement for book is a little strong don't you think, Figaro? I don't think the book will have much lasting impact but it is fairly famous at the minute. Sabine's Sunbird  talk  21:22, 24 June 2007 (UTC)


 * This is supposed to be an encyclopedia page about the bird, and the continued reversion of the disambiguation section at the top of the page, to give a special and significant mention of the book, can be said to be covered by both of the descriptions used. The book is mentioned on the disambiguation page, where it part of a short listing &mdash; surely people are brainy enough to be able to find the link to the page about the book (from the disambiguation page) without too much difficulty (without the extra need for special guidance and assistance to get there). Figaro 21:41, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

?!
Could someone tell me just what the hell a swan is?My help is needed 22:14, 24 June 2007 (UTC)


 * If your question is intended as a serious one, then check out the page for Swan for the answer to your query. Figaro 22:45, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Swanning about
I propose moving this page to Black swan, which is currently one of the stupidest & most needless redirect pages I've seen. When did swan become a proper noun? TREKphiler  hit me ♠  23:49, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Bird species are treated as proper nouns when using official names on Wikipedia, see the MOS. Sabine's Sunbird  talk  00:28, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

As a swan
I am surprised to see no discussion in this article of how the "Black Swan" compares to "regular" (white) swans. I see that it's a different species, but... take a look for example at black squirrel, and the way that article addresses the topic of black squirrels in relation to grey squirrels. Anyone unfamiliar with Australian wildlife, that is to say anyone who is far more used to the idea of thinking of swans as white, will come across this Black Swan article and be curious, not about the species as an independent entity as if it existed in an evolutionary vaccuum, but about how it is similar to and different from the white swan. LordAmeth (talk) 10:40, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I have thought about this too. It should be noted that white swans are unusual to some. However, the numerous references to black Swans are a strange complex; the difference between those before and after european discovery is also notable. I suggest that the description be expanded to note the differences from the rest of Cygnus, the way that Black squirrel is defined as a sub-grouping. The Australian culture section could also be expanded and renamed to note the closely related articles, and discussion of the 'surprise' factor.
 * There was something else I was going to mention, but I can't think what that was. Sorry about that, I could forget me own name ... cygnis insignis 11:40, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

-- I agree I would like to know if there are any differences between the swans other than colour. Also is there any explanation for why white swans are the rule in the north and black in the south?
 * Yes, I too came looking to hear about how/whether they're related.~ZytheTalk to me! 19:03, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Homosexuality versus homosciality
The reason for the last last edit is that the article uses the term "homosexuality" as defined in the article Homosexual behavior in animals. This use conforms with the scientific use of the phrase. A thorough argument for the preference of the term homosexual rather than homosocial can be found in: Petter Bøckman (talk) 10:37, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Bruce Bagemihl (1999): Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity, St. Martin's Press, pp.122-166
 * Sommer, Volker & Paul L. Vasey (2006): Homosexual Behaviour in Animals, An Evolutionary Perspective. Cambridge University Press, Cambridge.
 * Joan Roughgarden (2004): Evolutions rainbow: Diversity, gender and sexuality in nature and people, University of California Press, Berkeley, pp.13-183

Rerated
As C - no details on diet, nor much on taxonomy. Not a bad start though. Casliber (talk · contribs) 06:21, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

File:Black swan jan09.jpg to appear as POTD soon
Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Black swan jan09.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on April 14, 2011. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2011-04-14. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page so Wikipedia doesn't look bad. :) Thanks!  howcheng  {chat} 16:00, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

capitalization
why is black swan capitalized? its a swan. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.7.232.2 (talk) 05:02, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
 * There is a long-standing convention that all bird species are capitalised, see the MOS.  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  10:00, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

color change
those cygnets don't look particularly black!

does the color develop over time, or after a moult with a whole new set of feathers or what? 67.150.81.69 (talk) 05:22, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

How many teeth does it have, and does it bite often? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.115.48.162 (talk) 17:14, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Six percent divorce rate
Does the cited reference support the divorce rate claim? Hack (talk) 23:54, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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Range map
All these pictures of black swans and no range map? Is something off-kilter here? Piledhigheranddeeper (talk) 22:51, 5 July 2022 (UTC)