Talk:Board of Ceremonies

Tokugawa master of ceremonies
The following were posted in the "See also" section, but I had second thoughts:
 * Kōke, Tokugawa shogunate master of ceremonies?
 * Kira Yoshinaka, Tokugawa kōke?
 * Imagawa Norinobu, Tokugawa kōke?
 * Nishio Tadasaka, Tokugawa official?

Comments? Suggestions? --23:51, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Overhaul needed
I'll broadly try to outline the changes required. Here is the lede before changes: The Master of Ceremonies (治部卿) is one of the major positions in the Japanese Imperial Household Agency.

The current Imperial Household Agency came into being post-WWII (before end of war it was a ministry). Under the IHA's official website already [//www.kunaicho.go.jp/e-kunaicho/soshiki.html IHA organization page], the name given is "Grand Master of the Ceremonies" (I'll use GMC for short) and is used in the body of the article. If you look up the corresponding [//www.kunaicho.go.jp/kunaicho/kunaicho/soshiki.html Japanese language version]] of the official site, you will learn that the post is Shikibu-kanchō (式部官長).

So I don't know how 治部卿 (Jibu-kyō) got slipped in. This is the Minister of Civil Affairs, and is basically and ancien regime (Ritsuryō) office. The Jibu-kyō or the ministry Jibu-shō barely merits mention in the article, so the #Pre-Meiji period section's hierarchy is irrelevant and redundant (cut & pasted from the Jibu-shō artucke), so it's going to be nixed -- Though one might just mention in passing somewhere that the Music Department that belongs now under the GMC's board once belonged under Jibu-shō. Other ceremonial function rested with the Shikibu-shō or the "Ministry of Ceremonial".

".. Ministry of the Ceremonies (治部省, Jibu-shō?); also known as the 'Ministry of the Interior'[2]"

In fact, Jibu-shō is hardly ever translated as the "Ministry of Ceremonies" in most books I've searched, and if it appears in Varley's tr. of Jinnō Shōtoki that is cited, it is a rare exception. In fact you would find contrary evidence if you click the Sheffield's website given as [2] above, which says it is Shikbu-shō that is known as the "Ministry of Ceremonies". And for that matter, I don't know how the "Ministry of the Interior" alias slipped in here, because it doesn't appear anywhere under Sheffield's site search. Sheffield calls Jibu-shō "Ministry of Civil Administration"--Kiyoweap (talk) 06:22, 5 March 2013 (UTC)