Talk:Boston University/Archive 1

Old talk
I think it would be great if someone could add a section about BU's beanpot dominance. --Thekoshinator 06:36, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I added a to-do list, since it pains me to see how underdeveloped my alma mater is in comparison to some of the other university pages out there. Helpful contributions would be most welcome. --MC MasterChef 12:26, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * As a current student, I'm happy to hear that. I don't have a whole lot of information of my own, but I'll see if there's anything I can add. --Dirk Gently 11:58, 22 July 2005 (UTC)


 * I just redid the Academics section a bit. I think the list format is a little easier to read. If someone is feeling abitious, they could write articles for each of the colleges, with a list of majors offered. I also mentioned the study abroad programs, but I don't have all of the information for that. With a little work, we could turn this around quite a bit. Jon Seitz 05:21, August 24, 2005 (UTC)


 * I bumped with West Campus information down to the dorms section where it belongs, but with a few photos and some more details on the other dorm options, you could probably spin off a sub-page Boston University student housing with the info from Warren Towers and some of the StuVi section. The most glaring omission to my eyes right now is the lack of Silber's history in shaping the university, but my internet connection is too spotty right now for me to do much research on that at the moment. --MC MasterChef 05:44, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

The mention of BC has been removed. I guess it wasn't really necessary, but a lot of people I talk to get BU mixed up with BC. What do other people think? (Also, thanks for your contributions, MC.) --Dirk Gently 20:16:37, 2005-08-30 (UTC)

^ I think it's important to keep the BU/BC line. Along with being hockey rivals, people who know be but don't go to BU constantly mix it up and say I go to BC. Also I don't think that it's all that important to go into too much detail on the individual majors and such, as that kind of information can easily be found on BU's website. Just my $0.02.


 * And just my 2 cents. No BU student says he goes to BC. However, i agree that many people when describing BU students will say BC. -Michael 06:52, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I added another photo of the beach. I'll try and dig through my photos and find some more to upload. Metaomni 23:18, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Moved from article page
Question from User:65.96.188.220: Where did Howard Stern or Martin Luther King Junior live while in attendance?

Howard Stern I don't know, as for MLK in my dorm, Myles Standish Hall, there is a plaque denoting him as a famous resident at one time or another. --Okieman1200 08:47, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

Where is that plaque? I lived in Myles two years ago and don't remember ever seeing it. --Masoni 23:21, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

It's in the first floor lobby, right at the bottom of the stairs. It's a framed picture of Myles as a hotel and has a lot of written information on it. There's also a similar thing denoting info about Myles Standish himself. --okieman1200 06:05, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Is the section about Grade deflation really NPOV? Where are the statistics. I mean I'm a student and I can tell you the rumors exist, but are they sufficient to write about here, I doubt it. --168.122.241.73 08:05, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

there was a boston globe article about it last year. i believe both the bu and bc student papers have published articles as well. Thepedestrian 21:30, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Campus and facilities
This section is getting quite well-developed, particularly the student housing parts (though more can probably be said about facilities -- Marsh Chapel, the GSU, the labs at the Photonics Center, for example). Should it be split off to a separate article, a la Boston University athletics? If so, Warren Towers should probably be merged in to the Boston University campus and facilities (or whatever title) article. — MC MasterChef :: Leave a tip — 08:56, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

I have just added a little section about the Castle and the Pub. (CAS 2001, GRS 2004 here) I remember the tale of the castle from the campus tour, but i cannot find information to back it up. However, i still find it to be a bit of interesting info to be included. With the Castle section, i added a bit of info about the Pub as well (i think it is the only official on campus bar, correct me if i am wrong). I also added a more detailed description of the Bay State and South campus areas (i lived in the Common ground (156-8 BSR) and South Campus myself). Last time i visited campus, the new Hillel is going up. I wonder if it is finished yet. --Bud 06:54, 3 February 2006 (UTC)


 * the new hillel is definitely finished (i'm editing from Bay State Road right now). i'm not sure when it was completed, but i know it's been in operation for a while now.--Alhutch 06:58, 3 February 2006 (UTC)


 * thats cool. I liked that little patch of grass though. it gives a lot of light. There used to be a fountain there too, but was removed a while back. Oh god. i am getting old. Is the Common Ground renovated yet? It has been promised ti be redone ever since i started living there in 1998 (i lucked out and got a single there as a freshman). It is still kinda a mess when i left in 2000. BTW, i dont know why they called it Common ground house. Everyone seem to develop intense dislike of each other when i lived there. By the time i leave, no one talk to each other, LOL--Bud 07:49, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

i just read the BU official Hillel page. you guys got a JP Licks now? Damn i am jealous.--Bud 07:57, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I highly doubt the common ground house has been redone. i'm at 172 bay state, so i walk by there a lot. yeah, JP licks right in the hillel, which is a pretty nice place. life is good on bay state road.--Alhutch 08:01, 3 February 2006 (UTC)


 * 172 BSR.... Why is it so familar. i think i used to know someone there. We used to party a LOT in the French house (pre-renovation) and have weekly poker nights (where Poker is not really the main objective). ahhh. memories. So which school are you at?--Bud 08:05, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 * 172 is the russian house. I'm in CAS for history. what did you major in?--Alhutch 08:11, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I did International Relations. BA IR 2001, MA IR/COM 2004. History, you got Keylor?--Bud 08:14, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I haven't had Keylor, but I've heard very good things.--Alhutch 08:18, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 * take him. you would LOVE it. I had him all through both my BA and my MA.--Bud 08:43, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Now that come to think of it: what happened to the ORIGINAL Hillel? did they occupy both buildings or did BU took back the original Hillel for other purposes? (for those who don't know, the Original Hillel building is the one right next to the Castle to the direction of the beach)--Bud 05:47, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

BU ranking re: US news and World Report
I remember hearing that BU is never ranked high on the US news campus report because it is Bu policy not to fill out the form required by the magazine. I can never confirm it, if anyone know anthing about that, let me know. --Bud 06:54, 3 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah, there was an article in the Freep about this. I'll put in that info.Bwabes 04:58, 1 May 2006 (UTC)


 * The article was dated 20 September 2002. I don't think such old sources should be quoted on Wiki for articles like this, or if they are, the information from the source should be verified. The information on the article claims that the first 52 schools are considered top tier, while those after 52 are listed in alphabetical order. A quick look at the 2006 rankings shows that this is no longer true, and the rankings of schools make sense since schools fall into the general area they belong. One must remember that having a strictly objective hierarchy of schools is impossible.


 * Bud, in response to your query, U.S. News ranks schools according to criteria like: freshman retention rank, acceptance rate, graduation rates, financial resources, student-to-faculty ratio, freshman in top 10% of class etc. By comparing BU's numbers to the schools above it, one can easily see how its relative ranking comes about. Here are some statistics from the Princeton Review, which, in my experience, is far more reliable than U.S. News because they only list stats and do not establish a hierarchy:


 * Freshman retention rate: 91% (which is not very high compared to other top and/or more popular schools)


 * Acceptance rate: 57% (this is one statistic you will not likely come across on the BU campus. Most of the time, people talk about the 4000 out of 30000 applicants who ENROLL)


 * 4-year graduation rate: 65%, 6-yr graduation rate: 77%


 * An endowment of slightly over $700 mil. While this is significantly large, it pales in comparison to the $1.2 bil of Boston College, the $1.4 bil of NYU, and, going further up the U.S.News list, the $3.5 bil of Rice, $12 bil of Yale and $25 bil of Harvard)


 * Student to faculty ratio: 12:1 (very large, compared to the single digit ratios of the higher ranked schools)


 * Freshman in top 10% of class: 58%


 * All these factors contribute towards pushing BU lower in the rankings. Of course, this has no implication on how good individual classes are. Also the Times Higher Education Supplement rankings, as well as the SJTU rankings are in their infancy and fundamentally flawed. THES seems to favor LARGE and historically well known schools. This is obvious since large schools typically have the most diverse student bodies who will spread the name of the university wherever they go in the world. THES bases its ranking very heavily on reputation and opinion rather than facts. This explains an upward jump of 45 places for Duke in one year, a WORLD ranking of 15 for UT-Austin and other such insane anomalies. For American schools, the best source of information is the Princeton Review. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 220.225.190.133 (talk • contribs).

BU first's
I came across some interesting information about BU, do you think it should be added?

BU Was the First to... Open all its divisions to women (1872) Open a college of music in the United States (1873) Admit women to its medical college, the School of Medicine (1873) University in America to award Ph.D.s to women (1877) Offer a college degree in public relations (1947) Establish a combined six-year liberal arts/medical degree program (1961) Open a graduate school in dentistry (1963) Combine cancer research and a teaching laboratory (1965)

from College Prowler's guidebook, Boston University - Off the Record

International Standing
I threw in the secton on international standing, info from http://www.thes.co.uk/worldrankings/ and from Shanghai University: http://ed.sjtu.edu.cn/rank/2005/ARWU2005TOP500list.htm

endowment
anybody have a reliable source for info about BU's endowment? I have heard from some places that it has shrunk a great deal since 2000. I just wanted to know if anyone could confirm that, or has any other info about the endowment, which is not mentioned in the article as far as I can see.--Alhutch 06:07, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

controversies
I advocate the placement of certain actions from the university that has caused controversy, including Silber's tenure, his pay, and his stance on certain social issues that has affected university policies during his time as President/Chancellor. These include the refusal to include Sexual Orientation in the non-discrimination clause and the disbanding of the gay staight alliance of the BU academy (an affiliated high school). --Bud 06:36, 30 January 2006 (UTC)


 * To be honest, Silber's controversial actions are enough to warrant an article of their own. I'm not sure I'd agree with placing them all within the BU article; a passing reference at key points would suffice.  Pjorg 14:40, 2 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm pretty sure John Silber does have an article of his own. -Michael 06:54, 5 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, but his controversial actions do not. Pjorg 00:26, 6 January 2007 (UTC)


 * The article may not have a flashing sign pointing to it, but the article mentions the controversy. However, that is in the John Silber article. There's no need for that in an article about the university as a whole. -Michael 04:12, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Grade Deflation
Is the discussion on grade deflation NPOV? Do we have any sources for it? I know a lot of students think its happening, but what do we have to back it up for inclusion in the article? Metaomni 01:18, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Grade deflation is not an official policy. Often, this is the result of faculty meetings and general administration directive, and up to the discretion of the professor. I dont think there would be an official memo for it. --Bud 05:54, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't know if it's an official policy or not, but I can tell you that at the beginning of my psychology 101 class last semester, the professor told us that out of a class of 200, there were going to be about 15 A's awarded, because "we have grade deflation at BU." this stuff definitely happens, but I don't suppose it would be an official policy. How would one word such a policy? sounds difficult --Alhutch 05:58, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I was there for 6 years. Many professors often tell the kids that there is only X-number of As available. Then they grade on the curve (so if 20 A are allocated, then the first 20, regardless of actual percentage, get A, and the rest get B, C and so on). Its not exactly unusual and not officially grade deflation.
 * In a way, i understands BU's view. Whats the worth of a cum laude/Magna cum Laude/Summa cum Laude if everyone gets one?--Bud 06:05, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I've added an accuracy dispute box on the main page until we work this out. --Metaomni 19:52, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
 * The thing is we might never know if it is official or unofficial policy. All grad deflations are debatable and disputed. --Bud 20:55, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I suppose my main objection to its inclusion in the present form is the unverifiability of it. All we have is a couple anecdotes about professors who said there was grade deflation. Whether it's "official" or "unofficial" is besides the point, as it's presented. Maybe we could change the language to something like "Many students believe..." or something along those lines? Unless we actually have some sort of verifiable information, it really ought not be included. --Metaomni 21:53, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I did not add the section, and i dont know who did, actually. But i suggest getting the entire section out and add a article examining the idea of grade inflation. --Bud 00:55, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

I moved the information on grade deflation to Boston University grade deflation, removed the info from this page, and removed the dispute template. I also found the mentioned Boston Globe article and added it as a link on the new page. Metaomni 03:13, 10 February 2006 (UTC) There is an article on Grade deflation already. Maybe Grade deflation would be merged with that section.--Bud 22:54, 11 February 2006 (UTC)


 * No way. Grade deflation is a huge part of life at Boston University. It should be mentioned here in at least that context. The New York Times has even cited it as a happening. --J.Dayton 23:54, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Is it Grade DEFLATION or Grade INFLATION??? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Quincy8Boy (talk • contribs).


 * Grade inflation is when the faculty grade VERY easy and lots of people get A's who, supposedly, have not done A-work. Grade Deflation is when the faculty grade hard or arbitrarily limits the number of higher grades given so some people who do, for example, A-level work supposedly receive lower grades than they deserve, or at least lower than they would expect in another environment.  This article is saying that BU has been deflating grades.  By itself, this would not necessarily be a problem, but if a student from School S (deflating grades) is a candidate for admission to a graduate program or a job and is compared to someone from School T (grading neutral or inflating), and the evluators do not understand that an A, for example, is harder to get at School S than at School T, the School S student may be at a disadvantage even though a "better student" than the competitor from School T.   Pzavon 02:01, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

History
I've added a section on History and have begun adding to it. This will take a while to flesh out, but I expect to address the question, posed some time ago, about what happened during the first half of the 20th century. Pzavon 03:58, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

On 4 March 84.151.195.184 added some material indicating that "some" had questioned the motives of the selection of the university's name and whether all the legal niceties were following in obtaining the charter. This, I think cries out for source attribution of one sort or another. Where is this information coming from? Pzavon 02:36, 5 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree, it doesn't sound like there's much backing that up. Do anyone know anything about this part of BU's history? I sure don't, but that addition sounds like speculation to me. --Dirk Gently 02:00, 9 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, someone else removed it (along with a line about student housing problems). I've lived on campus for two years now and haven't really heard anything about that, so I guess it's fine to see both of those parts go. --Dirk Gently 23:56, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

mmmm.... it has been a while. Can someone finish the job? Much thanks. --Bud 12:30, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

A Challenge To 1839 Establishment Date

A date of 1839 for the establishment of Boston University is based on tracing the roots of the university back to a school in Vermont named the Newbury Biblical Institute. However, there is no evidence in the recorded history of Boston, Massachusetts that prior to 1869 there was a school in Boston by the name of Boston University. The historical record clearly indicates that Boston University was chartered as Boston University in 1869, not 1839.

The BU website provided as a source on the main page simply indicates that BU was chartered in 1869, nowhere does it state that "Boston University" was established in 1839. If the date of 1839 is going to be used as the establishment date, then it needs to be noted that it was "The Newbury Biblical Institute" that was established at that point in time and not Boston University. It is historically inaccurate to use the establishment date of 1839 for "Boston University." Theprofessor9 (talk) 22:08, 28 October 2009 (UTC) user: Theprofessor9 23 October 2009


 * The above statement is incorrect on a couple of accounts. The About BU page cited (http://www.bu.edu/info/about/) clearly lists the year "1839" under the phrase "Year Established." It is on the bottom right hand corner of the page. The Wikipedia article clearly discusses the Newbury Biblical Institute as the origin of Boston University, so your complaint that this is not in the article ignores the actual content of the article. For comparison, check the Harvard University wikipedia page, which uses 1636 as the establishment date even though it wasn't called "Harvard University" until 1780. previously, it was Harvard College. Name and organization changes are not unique to BU and are not a reason to edit the establishment date. BU uses 1839 as its establishment date and the same date should be used in a neutral article. The article explains what happened in 1839 and 1869, so the continual changes by "Theprofessor9" are unnecessary--Jbrodkin (talk) 22:24, 29 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Agree. I am sympathetic to his or her views but our standard here is verifiability, not truth.  His or her approach seems close to original research, something we do not permit here.  --ElKevbo (talk) 22:48, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

I stand corrected, as the BU website gives the establishment date as 1839 at the bottom right corner, I just didn't see it. But it's still misleading and cannot be substantiated. My contention is that there is no documentation in the recorded history of the city of Boston (of which BU is a part) that there was a school established as Boston University prior to 1869. I responded to the Harvard analogy in the talk section. It's not comparable because no one is challenging the establishment date for Harvard and it was still Harvard whether it was a college or a university. However, I am challenging the establishment date for BU. The university cannot document that there was a school established as Boston University prior to 1869 because there wasn't. And since it can't be verified that there was a school named Boston University prior to 1869, then it doesn't meet the standards for inclusion in a Wikipedia article. BU's claim that it was established in 1839 is closer to "original research" than any of my contentions. That being said, Wikipedia's standard for "establishment" allows an institution to use the date of a predecessor institution, so the 1839 date can remain even though it's inaccurate. Additionally, a bit of personal historical perspective is in order. I was a student at BU in 1969 when it celebrated its 100th anniversary. The establishment date at that time was 1869 and there was no mention of the 1839 date. It came as a great surprise when BU celebrated its 150th anniversary 20 years later in 1989. BU now uses 1839 as its date of establishment. But it's not the date when BU was established. My high school history teachers wouldn't have allowed this to stand. Theprofessor9 (talk) 02:48, 30 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Though you may be right, wikipedia's policy on original research does not mean what I believe you think it to mean. Because the 1839 date appears in given sources, it becomes not original research. The originality of research that wikipedia does not allow is that which is done by a wikipedia editor and "published" here for the first time.--Louiedog (talk) 03:40, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

I believe I understand wikipedia's policy on original research. I guess I should have raised the question of how to deal with a situation where a webpage for a university ("not original research") presents information as factual when it can't be substantiated with documentation. As indicated in my previous posts, I believe the current BU wikepedia article should be revised to accurately reflect the school's actual establishment date of 1869. Hopefully, others will agree and some sort of modification will be made. Theprofessor9 (talk) 12:11, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

According to the Wikipedia article, BU organized formal centennials in 1939 and 1969. So the 1839 date was in use since at least 1939, 30 years before "Theprofessor9" attended the university. --Jbrodkin (talk) 00:42, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

If the 1939 celebration was for the anniversary of the establishment of Boston University, then the celebration was for the wrong year. Trying to present 1839 as the establishment date for BU is disingenuous. It doesn't matter if BU celebrates both dates. There can only be one year when BU was established, and it's not 1839. The story of the origin of Boston University leaves no doubt that the university was established in 1869. Theprofessor9 (talk) 00:47, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

New Section: (virtual tour) seperate from campus and facilities
I am going to create a new sub-section under campus and facilities. before the sub section, i will describe the campus, and provide a general sktetch. Then in the new seb section i am going to provide a more detailed description of the East of Kenmore, Kenmore, East campus, West campus, Central campus, everything west of west campus, and South campuses,along with any distinctive landmarks, like the Citgo sign (Kenmore), the SMG (East), Warren Towers/Main Marsh Sq. buildings (central), StuVil and West Camp (west) and South campus. Each section of the campus would be divided into landmarks, notable buildings, and student housing facilities.



Sounds like an interesting idea. Will you be including landmarks like The Dugout?

By the way, I am undoing your change of the phrase "Boston businessmen" to "Bostonian businessmen" in the History section. The use of "Bostonian" is incorrect in this application, otherwise we would be talking about "Rhett, the Bostonian Terrier."

Pzavon 03:18, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

I plan to add all notable facilities, whether they belong to BU or not. I am a BU Grad myself (BA CAS 2001, MA GRS 2004) so i am pretty familiar with most places except the new rec center. The reason of making that "tour" is because BU is a very east-west oriented campus with very distinct areas. It would be helpful to take a visitor from east to west. Also, some of the buildings are relatively unknown unless you know where it is (For example, Danielson hall on Beacon is actually the eastern-most point of the campus, but unlesss you know people staying there, it is not known). --Bud 07:39, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Article removed from Good articles
This article was formerly listed as a good article, but was removed from the listing because the first section says 'more to come'. Please list it once it's finished! Also suggest not including text like that in any case as it looks rather unprofessional. Worldtraveller 00:53, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

academic boosterism
Avoid academic boosterism

I noticed nearly all of the rankings in this article concern BU's MBA program. Let me guess, other programs' rankings are not so complimentary?

If you are going to trash my school, at least have the ****s to leave a signature. The MBA program get a lot of attention because it is one of the frequently ranked discipline. Not many people rank their liberal art departments. --Bud 02:49, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

According to the gradschool finder website, BU's economics department ranks in the top 20 for PhD, and biomedical engineering is ranked 4th in the country. I do not know how reliable of a source this is, I do know that the biomed engineering department is highly regarded, as are the departments in economics and international realtions (so much so that there is talk of a school of international relations forming). The college of communications is also highly regarded, and as the oldest methodist seminary in the county, the school of theology also carries serious weight. Where can actually ranking be found? I'm not sure. Ranking schools of theology, communications, and individual departments does not sell very many magazines.

What does "Research University" mean?
I see that Alhutch has modified the initial description of BU to call it a "research university" rather than simply a "university." It seems to me that this adds sylables but not information. I would have thought that any university in the US, at least, would be involved in research with government and foundation funding, etc. I've attended three universities and taught (as Adjunct Faculty) at two others. I've also dealt with staff and some facultywho were based at other universities. My impression was that research was conducted at all and that calling an institution a "research university" was about as useful as declaring a high school to be a "teaching high school." Comments invited. Pzavon 02:30, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
 * i have no idea what it means... seemed like the proper thing to call it at the time, probably doesn't mean anything... forgive me, and feel free to remove it.--Alhutch 02:32, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
 * This is most likely a reference to the institution's Carnegie Classification. --ElKevbo 06:20, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
 * A research university is one that engages in research and not only teaching. Many colleges - especially smaller liberal arts schools - around the US do not engage in a significant amount of research and are dedicated solely to teaching undergraduate students.  A research university must offer doctoral degrees and be engaged in significant research. Delphi53 13:59, 15 August 2006 (UTC)


 * All very well, but a University is not a college. All universities offer advanced degrees and engage in both research and teaching.  Pzavon 00:16, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Not all universities have extensive PhD or research programs. Smallers ones like St. Lawrence University, and even prestigious schools like Boston College, and Tufts Univeristy have very small PhD programs. Like many other universities, research is a central part of what goes on at BU Significantly more money was spent this year (and every year) on research and research facilities, and there are currently well over 100 PhD candidates, and almost 100 more MD candidates studying at BU right now. The same could be said for Umass or Harvard. This distinguishes BU as a research university and should be added because it is central to what the school is.

Why Remove Campus Trolly photo
User 216.236.252.235 has twice removed the photo of the Campus Trolly and its background without leaving any indication of why he/she thinks its presence is inappropriate. Does anyone have any constructive thoughts on why it might be inappropriate in this article? Pzavon 02:58, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Because it adds nothing to the article. It is not a landmark, by any means, on campus, nor is it visually pleasing. If you are going to post pictures, post pictures that show the actual buildings and scenery that is important to the campus, not an arbitrary food stand next to a parking lot on Comm. Ave.


 * The message above was posted on 21 September, quite a long time after the question was posted. So I want to ask the responder, who was using an annonymous form of access, whether he has a connection with the BU campus that would lead to his understanding the place of that small structure?    So far this is the only image offered that provides any view, if only in background, of the original buildings that were built circa 1938.  It is also a clearly noticable structure for many who pass there, whether connected to BU or not.   Pzavon 21:35, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Campus Housing
Is it just me, or does the section on campus housing look overwhelming? It's nice that we have so much information, but it really needs to be broken down into headings, if you ask me. Pjorg 15:04, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Or, perhaps better in the long run, create a short summary section here and a separate article dealing specifically with campus housing facilities at BU. The whole BU article is getting rather long and I believe other parts will eventually benefit also by being moved to separate articles, leaving shorter summaries in the main article. Pzavon 16:49, 2 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Agreed. I created a new article and toned down the size in this one.  Pjorg 21:01, 5 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Nicely done, except for that one slip from NPOV, which I've fixed. Pzavon 04:02, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Info Box getting long
Pjorg has updated the info box with such information as the names of the current President and Vice-President of the Student Body. That seems rather ephemeral to me, and inappropriate for this location. Will Pjorg undertake to update this part of the article after each student government election? If not, I would suggest that this infomration belongs elsewhere, perhaps in a section or article on Student Government at BU.

In general the info box seems to be getting longer and longer. Are we adding items that are non-standard for a University Info Box? Should this be a more limited entry? Requesting comments for more experienced Editors.

Pzavon 16:57, 2 May 2006 (UTC)


 * These are fields that appear in the infobox template, so I assumed that there was already a consensus that this information was pertinent. I have no problem updating the box on a yearly basis, but even if I didn't there's certainly a healthy editor community here on this article; I'm sure someone would take care of it.


 * In any case, I'll certainly abide by whatever we decide here amongst ourselves. Pjorg 17:11, 2 May 2006 (UTC)


 * In my opinion not every field in the template necessarily needs to be used. But I guess my main concern is aesthetics - the box is getting to be too long for the section it resides in.  Some of the most recently added lines contribute double to that since the titles take two lines. (and why are they in red?) In fact, if they are to remain, those lines should be even longer.  I think the year of office should be shown if you are going to list a student body president.

Pzavon 17:08, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Academic Standards
I've been trying to find a citation for this information, and it's occurred to me that it only applies to CAS. This further led me to realize that all the colleges and schools individually dictate standards - I don't believe there are any university-wide regulations to this end.

Am I wrong? Pjorg 07:11, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

I doubt that you are. Sometimes diffrerent departments set different standards, particularly in such a large school as the CAS. BTW, the castle tale, as i said, is lore, and is repeated many many times on campus tours. No one can tell if it is true or not.--Bud 23:07, 6 May 2006 (UTC)


 * RE: The Castle, I don't think that's correct. I recall reading in Kilgore's book the specifics vis-à-vis the construction of the house, but am waiting for my copy to arrive in the mail.  When I figure it out, I'll post a citation. Pjorg 03:04, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

The Goldin Fiasco
I've just completed an article on the failed presidency of Dan Goldin. Where do you think is the appropriate place to add this to the BU article? Pjorg 06:17, 7 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Nice article. It provides me with a much better view of what happened as all I had before was the completely uninformative letter to alumni announcing that Goldin had withdrawn.  I don't see a really good place to link this to the main article at the moment, but I am going to add a list of the University's presidents in the article very soon and will expand the history section further. That will provide a reasonable place for a link.  In the meantime, your article should be included in the BU category.  Pzavon 15:41, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Talk Page - BU Student Template


I've created a BU Student template for those that are interested: Template:User BU-Student  -Pjorg 11:06, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Please add an alumni one too.--Bud 17:39, 7 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Here you are: Template:User BU-Alumnus and Template:User BU-Alumna. Pjorg 20:29, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Arena Appearances
Sorry, but I don't think that we need to list recent appearances at the Arena in the BU article.

Perhaps this would be more appropriate on the Agganis Arena page?

No one seems to have objected, so I made the changes. -Pjorg 15:37, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Dan Goldin
I feel like we should have some mention of the Dan Goldin issue in the article. While such a mention would properly occur in a complete narrative history of the University, since we've not yet managed to accomplish that, perhaps placing him in the table with the other presidents would suffice as a stop-gap measure? -Pjorg 15:38, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

I am sure Goldin would be mentioned in the History section when we are done with it, but the section has been stalled for quite some time now.--Bud 19:48, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

If you look at the BU category page listing, you will see what I think is a rather good article covering the Goldin "Presidency" I believe Bud001 wrote it, and I intend to link to it when I (or someone else) bring the general history to that point. I don't think it would be appropriate to list Goldin as a President of the University. I've had too much on my plate elsewhere to forcefully move the history section forward recently, but hope to spend some time this weekend on parts of that. Pzavon 02:23, 26 May 2006 (UTC)


 * i am flattered, but i did not write it. I thought you did.--Bud 03:38, 26 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I should have looked at the history of the article before responding. Pjorg wrote it. Pzavon 02:21, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Grade Deflation
I expanded the bit on grade deflation since there was an article today in the New York Times on the issue at BU specifically. I have every expectation that this contribution will be edited mercilessly to make sure everyone's satisfied with the language - so have at it.

Also, there's some kind of problem because the next subheader for "Rankings" isn't rendering. Does anyone know what's going on?

-Pjorg 00:59, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Article getting too large
It seems that we're rapidly approaching the 40k threshold, so it's probably time to step back and figure out what's the next thing to be moved to its own article. I'm in favor of tackling the CSC part - good information, but a little too detailed for the main BU page. -Pjorg 04:41, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps a History of Boston University article would be warranted? Also, the "Campus and facilities" section is quite long... -- Jonel | Speak 04:50, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Correct on both counts, but both of those sections are fairly weak—the history is missing large portions of time. I think it's a better strategy to create new articles where we know we can make it fairly complete.
 * Of course, both of those topics do warrent their own articles, but no one has yet taken on the ominious task of researching and writing them. The history will be especially hard to do, but it's sorely needed.  -Pjorg 04:55, 28 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I hope to find time this weekend to add to the history, but the current structure really calls for history to be interleaved with the listings of the various schools and colleges, so if I write it I don't think the separate history section will get much larger.


 * What do you think of moving the Student Publications into its own article, with more added on discontinued publications of some note, such as The BU News and the yearbooks?
 * Pzavon 17:18, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

IMHO, there is no need for an encyclopedia article to contain information about the dormitory guest policy or other such information. A lot of this material belongs on the "prospective students" page of the BU website and need not be reproduced here.PurpleChez 03:37, 8 April 2007 (UTC)


 * The guest policy is particularly notable at BU due to the controversy surrounding it and the virtually universal belief among the student body that it is excessively prohibitive. I would agree, however, that there is no reason to duplicate the terms of the policy in its entirety, and that a few sentences in the main BU article is sufficient.  The policy can be given a more thorough treatment somewhere else, such as the Housing System article.  -Pjorg 13:21, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Re: Article too Large
I had originally made the CSC it's own page with a link, but at the time i didn't have enough information. If people think it could stand on its own with just a link on the BU page I'm all for moving it!--okieman1200 06:31, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Warren Towers: not so big
I know that we here at BU like to think that we're the biggest and baddest, Warren towers is not actually the largest dorm in the US. A simple check of the BU housing website (http://www.bu.edu/housing/residences/largedorms/warren.html) lists its capacity at 1797. And I won't even get into the argument over whether or not Warren Towers is actually 3 dorms or not. In any case, the Jester Center at University of Texas at Austin houses 2,945 (http://www.utexas.edu/student/housing/?site=1&scode=4&id=140), which is quite a bit more. I'm fixing all the pages that make reference to this. --Michael 21:09, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

BU Community Service Center
I moved the CSC section to its own page. The section was rather large for what it is (just the description of a "club"), so I moved it and left a link with a small description. --Michael 03:31, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

BU's religious affiiliation
On 6 February 2007 you removed categories related to BU's Methodist affilliation from the main Boston University article because, as you said "BU no longer maintains any religious affilliation." BU as a University has not had a Methodist affiliation for many years. In fact, from the 1869 Charter I believe no part of the University other than Theology had a formal religious affiliation. I believe the School of Theology has maintained its affiliation from the beginning, thus making those category links appropriate. Pzavon 03:10, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I believe you're correct about STH having an affiliation, but the template and categories suggest that the school as a whole is affiliated, which it is not. If there is a separate article for STH then I think the category would belong there.  Pjorg 15:03, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

1867 location
The article refers to "23 Pinkney Street in Boston", but Google Maps does not know of any such address. It does suggest "23 Pinckney St, Boston, Massachusetts 02114". Is this a simple misspelling, or did the name of the street change? -- Beland 22:49, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Missing image
It looks like the image "Boston University Beach.jpg," which has been included at the section on Visitor and Guest Policy, has been deleted. As best I can recall it was posted by the person who took the photo, but there is no indication of why the image was deleted. Would an Administrator care to look furhter into this? Pzavon 17:08, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Preliminary Review of article for WP:UNI/COTF
This article's pretty good actually. I just have a couple of things I found on this article that could be improved.
 * The academics section should also include demographic information of the student population as well
 * Campus section should be below the History section
 * Missing Research/Endowment section
 * Student activities section is pretty good, at this point all it's missing are its fraternities/sororities information (if they're notable)

- Jameson L. Tai  talk ♦ contribs 21:48, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, as a BU alumni I can inform you that very few BU students belong to Greek organizations (by that I mean traditional frats or sororities). In fact I chose to go to BU based on that fact. BU's greek organizations do not have their "houses" on campus either.--Bud (talk) 07:40, 16 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I would say that the fraternities/sororities have not been notable in the life of Boston University as a whole since some time in the 1960s at the latest. Pzavon (talk) 02:39, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

On the Charles River
There seems to be a bit of an edit war on this one. The campus is on the Charles River. BU even calls its main campus the Charles River campus (link2). Therefore including the line "on the Charles River" is appropriate.--Loodog (talk) 13:23, 14 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree wholeheartedly. What's more, for the most literal among us, both the BU Boathouse and Sailing Pavilion are "on" the river even by the narrowest definition of the term.  -Pjorg (talk) 17:42, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Google: ::"Boston University" "on the Charles River" 15,000 results
 * vs.
 * "Boston University" "next to the Charles river" 6 results\
 * or try:
 * ''"Boston University" "the Charles River"
 * Certainly BU is no less "on" the Charles River than Harvard or MIT.--Loodog (talk) 02:33, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

"Boston University" "on the moon" 17,800 Google results. I guess that means that BU is on the moon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.60.254.74 (talk) 03:23, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * BU calls it the "Charles River Campus" so clearly the Charles River is a relavant landmark for the campus.Charles River campus (link2)
 * BU is as much on the river as Harvard and MIT.
 * The BU Boathouse and Sailing Pavilion are literally on the river and comprise part of the campus.
 * --Loodog (talk) 04:02, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Loodog, isn't this getting kind of repetitive. Yes, BU literature sometimes describes the campus as "on" the Charles, but most of the "Charles River Campus" has had little or no access to the river bank since the land for Storrow Drive was taken in the late 1940s. "On" or "near" seems to be a matter of little importance, as far as I can see. If others think it important and can't agree on which to use, why not simply drop whe whole phrase about proximity to the river? The sentence still reads properly and provides reasonable reference landmarks. Pzavon (talk) 04:36, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I was organizing the points in the interests of a response. I believe the Charles River to be very much characteristic of the school, or at least, its Charles River Campus.--Loodog (talk) 04:53, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Pzavon. Although the river is obviously nearby, the campus isn't directly on the river. In any event, I don't think the river is particularly relevant to explaining where BU is located. If someone asked me where to find BU, I think I would say "on Comm. Ave. near Kenmore Square," not "on the Charles River." I have taken Pzavon's suggestion and just deleted the river reference for now. Let's see if everyone can live with that? -- 170.63.96.108

References to local roads and neighborhoods locate the campus within the city for those familiar with the city, but relation to the river locate the campus for those who are familiar with only the general nature of the city. The river is a much more reasonable reference point for the general reader. Therefore, the opening should say "on the Charles River." I believe I'm in agreement with Loodog on this Pjorg, and that Pzavon and [User:170.63.96.108] dissent. Can you folks explain why the reference to the river is either incorrect or misleading, taking my points here into account? Naturezak (talk) 15:01, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

The river might be a reasonable reference point for a general reader, but I wouldn't include it because it's not the best descriptor of the nature of the campus (so yes, it might be a little misleading). When I think of my time at BU, I think of Comm. Ave. and its sidewalk and shops. I think of the B line and Kenmore Square. I think of Warren Towers. Sure, we've all lounged by the river on one of Boston's few pleasant days during the school year, but those days are a distinct minority. A reference to the river would be entirely appropriate in a later section giving a more detailed description of the campus. But in the first few sentences of the page, I think it's important to capture the basic essence of the school. For me, that would not include a reference to a river that, in addition to being separated from the campus by a multi-lane urban highway, is simply not a part of the average student's day-to-day life. -- 170.63.96.108
 * I reiterate points 1, 2, and 3, which still stand.--Loodog (talk) 17:27, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

I've given it some thought. This whole thing is rather Clintoneque in that we're arguing what the word "on" means. In the end it's all relative; if the context were a discussion of BU and the roads nearby, then obviously "on the river" would be reserved for Storrow, et al. But it doesn't seem unreasonable to generally refer to the campus being "on the river," as it is a useful landmark in a city that is quite large; the riverfront is only a small portion.

I still think the original text is perfectly correct, but I guess a softening of the language to "near the Charles River" or "along the Charles River" is a fair compromise. -Pjorg (talk) 20:12, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Daniel Goldin presidency of Boston University
Daniel Goldin presidency of Boston University has information not included in the Boston University and Goldin is not mentioned in the Boston University article. Should he be? Suntag (talk) 16:34, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't know where it would properly fit in "history". The history section gives an overview of how the school developed, and I can't really see where this would fit in, though a link from this article to that one would certainly be appropriate, maybe in the "see also" section.--Loodog (talk) 16:46, 8 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Goldin never really established a connection with BU. Other than the turmoil that attended the termination of his contract, his primary impact on the University seems to have been the substantial payment made in exchange for his releasing the contract.  Perhaps a one-sentence referal to the article on his non-Presidency would be appropriate, but nothing more, in my opinion.  Pzavon (talk) 03:09, 9 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree with Pzavon there. It was a brief incident of BU history and while it was big news at the time the impact on the University (except some money) is minimal. --Bud (talk) 04:21, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Merger Proposal
I'm suggesting that Boston University Photonics Center be merged into the "campus and facilities" section. If there isn't any response in seven days, I will go ahead and merge it, but if there is, I'll just step out and let you guys talk amongst yourselves. --Call me Bubba (talk) 02:51, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
 * That article's only a stub right now. I intend to get some pics in there and more info.  The Photonics Center is very notable on campus and can easily hold its own article.--Loodog (talk) 02:55, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
 * OK by me, but how about a sentence or two about the Photonics Center in the Campus and Facilities section of the larger article? If it is important enough to have its own article, it is important enough for a mention here, with a link. Pzavon (talk) 03:00, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Ya, definitely.--Loodog (talk) 03:06, 18 December 2008 (UTC)


 * It appears that both expansion of the separate article and inclusion in the main article are merited. Manticore55 (talk) 16:08, 23 November 2009 (UTC)