Talk:Breakbeat

Hip hop's relation
I think we need a discussion on whether HIP HOP should be included in the breakbeat section, or AT LEAST in the electronic music section. Hip hop, to be hip hop has to be electronic. It also makes use of breakbeats. Any arguments like it has rappers/vocalists in it or doesnt always use breakbeats can also be made for drum'n'bass..... 86.135.8.247 11:13, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

It should be mentioned yes, it also should be noted the BBoy Breakdancing, huge Ghettos blasters and rolled up cardboard youths of the 80s. Run DMC Its Like That style. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.79.157.27 (talk) 02:51, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Chemical breaks
Chemical breaks should be replaced by Big Beat (or left out altogether) - see Talk:Chemical breaks. regards, High on a tree 01:36, 14 May 2004 (UTC)

Removed: "Fever in da' Bronx"
Removed the following piece from the main article. Since it claims to be from a "modest magazine", it may be a copyright violation, although a preliminary Google search didn't find the source online. If the contributor to Wikipedia actually wrote the original article and/or the original author is submitting it under the GFDL, please indicate so here on this Talk page, together with some way for us to authenticate they are the author in question or that the author has permitted it's use under the GFDL.

If the contribution is GFDL, it still needs a lot of work to become encyclopedic, it currently reads like a magazine opinion piece, in particular attention to our policy of neutral point of view. The first paragraph, in particular is completely out of place in an encyclopedia. Secondly it needs to have links to other articles. I will do this if I have time, but it would help out if the original submitter (or somebody else) could work on it before restoring it to the main text. Thanks. --Lexor|Talk 14:44, 12 Sep 2004 (UTC)

The History of Breakbeat Part I - "Fever in da' Bronx"

In order to understand where you are going, you first have to know where you are coming from. At least that's what many historians claim if you ask them why they get paid to do what they do all day long. But let's be honest: Who hasn't wondered why we have risen above the animal kingdom (at least up to 90%), why things are the way they are, or simply where such brilliant things as condoms, mothballs or the toilet flush came from? Since these are subjects that, though of interest, are completely out of place here, let's devote ourselves to a more suitable question: Just where do our beloved breakbeats come from?

Tricky. Where do you begin? How about the classic saying: "It all started with the drum?" And indeed, the history of rhythmic drums is closely intertwined with the history of humanity. But the question of when the first Australopithecus on his forays through the savannahs of prehistoric Africa noticed that it not only hurts like hell to hit your head on a hollow tree but that it also sounds very interesting is probably no longer definitively answerable today, and would moreover be beyond the scope of our modest magazine. So where to begin? What was the inception of what we now know as breakbeats? In order to resolve this, it might be better to disassociate from the history of the beat for a moment and to ask yourself when exactly the word "breakbeat" first emerged in a modern context. Yeah, let's try that.

Before the breakbeat there was the break. This term that originates in jazz describes those passages in musical compositions in which all other instruments are dampened so that the beat alone can work its magic. Consequently, the term "break" should be construed in its original meaning as an intermission in which the drum solo alone ruled the stage. Breaks in the late 1960s and early 1970s were a staple of Funk, and "King of Funk" James Brown's drummers Jabo Starks and Clyde Stubblefield weren't the last to user their drum solos to demonstrate what beats were capable of. This sets the time frame for the first emergence of Breakbeat, and now really only two things are missing from the show: The stage and the actors.

The stage for this spectacle was provided in the early '70s by the Bronx, the notorious New York City neighborhood which to this day puts a sparkle in the eye of those in the know. The main characters involved are quickly determined as well: The breakers, breakdancers or simply B-boys, and a young Herculean black man of Jamaican descent named Clive Campbell, today known better as the man who invented Hip Hop, the legendary DJ Kool Herc.

Like many cutting-edge discoveries in the early history of music, Breakbeat was born on a sweaty dance floor, the one of the dance club Fever. Let's go back to that night in 1974, in the West Bronx, to the dance floor at Fever. Kool Herc is behind the decks, the place is packed and people are getting down to dance, or rather, to Hustle.

The Hustle was the popular dance of the fading Disco era and Herc chose his records accordingly: Late Funk and Disco. But not all club-goers participated in the activities on the dance floor. A few trainspotters, disaffected by their surroundings, were always waiting quietly for their moment to shine: The break. The energetic rhythmic sections were the fuel for their performance, the breakdancing show. Breaking or breakdancing allowed these boys to draw attention to themselves, to be the stars of the evening for a short moment while surrounded by Hustle dancers, and their artistic performances regularly pushed the dynamics on the dance floor to a climax in which the energy exploded. This would not go unnoticed by an attentive DJ like Kool Herc, and that legendary night he tried an experiment. Driven by the intention to extend the part the breakdancers required for their show, he had thought about how to achieve this and that night in 1974, with the help of two turntables and one mixer, he mixed the rhythm sections of different tracks seamlessly one after the other for the first time. The audience flipped, the breakdancers freaked, and the dance floor exploded.

This was the making of a recipe for success, a whole new style of music: The Breakbeat, the root of Hip Hop, Drum & Bass and the genre still known as Breakbeat today. Kool Herc's example was quickly adopted and inspired numerous DJ to imitate him and to shape and form this new kind of music. Even if Herc's mixing style may seem primitive to the contemporary eye - after all, he wasn't doing anything close to beatmatching yet - he nevertheless has every right to the title Originator. Twenty years later the Chemical Brothers invited the long since retired Kool Herc to London to be a guest DJ and open for their shows, and in doing so paid respect to the man who laid the foundation for their own music: The inventor of Breakbeat.

Well. The history of Breakbeat is a confusing affair to someone who is interested and does a little research. Although the origins are easily determined, the thread gets lost quickly in the frenzy of the burgeoning European club culture of the late '80s and '90s with its mad speed of ever-changing music genres. At this point of a comprehensible temporal course of events, we have omnipresence: Breaks were everywhere - whether as filler or a leading style element, they took root all over the place and coagulated into a phenomenon which, like a vacuum cleaner, absorbed all influences it possibly could. A phenomenon that assured Breakbeat a steady spot on club dance floors and that coined and formed contemporary club and music culture. I'm talking about Hardcore.

The birth of Hip Hop in 1974 in the Bronx first brought Breakbeat to the forefront of a radically new youth subculture which quickly took the world by storm. By the early '90s, Hip Hop had become a worldwide phenomenon, and Breakbeat worked its irresistible appeal on both sides of the Atlantic. The commercial success became apparent with the first airing of MTV's Yo Rap show in 1988, if not before that. But Hip Hop was not the only popular export from U.S. clubs to find open ears and hard-dancing feet. At the same time, unnoticed by the general public and the music industry, there was an even more powerful wave that came crashing into European clubs, which had its roots in Detroit heads and Chicago clubs: Acid House and Techno.

Even if the first attempts failed by English DJ's to use new foreign music from the U.S. to fill the void that had been left in the musical landscape by the downfall of Rare Groove, number one hits like M/A/R/S' Pump the Volume and S'Express' number two hit Theme From S'Express marked the offshoots of England's Acid House wave, which, through DJ's like Paul Oakenfold and Danny Rampling and their club nights The Future and Shoom and through the discovery of Ecstasy, quickly gained momentum and culminated in 1998 in the Second Summer of Love. 1990 brought another, even bigger wave of original radical music that broke free from the ideals of Chicago and Detroit and that, with its raw energy and open hedonism, expressed its independence through the screams of thousands of dancing ravers: Hardcore.

A simple picture after all? The history of Modern Breaks is that of Hardcore? We can only answer that with "Yes but no." Just as today there is a confusing, multifaceted zoo of styles and preferences, there are many different takes on what exactly Hardcore was. Less a clearly delineated genre than a lifestyle, Hardcore by the end of 1993 encompassed such different genres as Northern England's Bleep & Bass, the Southern Breaks-based Hip House and Ragga Techno, Pop Rave a la Shades of Rhythm, the Belgian-German Tekkno and last but not least the heralding revolution of Hardcore Jungle. All of these, having a different accentuation each but nevertheless closely interwoven, set the stage for the most scorching development phase of electronic club music we have seen to date and created a solid residence for Breakbeat on the dance floors at clubs.

Low frequency oscillations - Bleep & Bass: When talking about Breakbeat these days, no matter which BPM, one subject will come up sooner or later: The Bass. Bass from soft to hard, grinding, drilling, huffing, rattling, wrenching, cramming, pounding… you know, Bass. If you want to reduce Germany to one word, it would be Techno. For England it would be Bass, a science that has seen its first light in the Northern part of the island, more specifically Sheffield. Inspired by Unique 3's sub Bass monster The Theme, Steve Becket and Rob Mitchell erected the now legendary label Warp and dedicated themselves to the exploration of Bass. Deep frequencies, low frequency oscillations or simply LFO was distinctively the name of one of the first and most successful acts on Warp. LFO aka Mark Bell and Gez Varley, on their quest for the ultimate depth charge, created a myriad of classics that remain unforgettable to this day, among them their probably most well-known track: LFO. The experiments with bringing out a bigger, fatter, and more powerful bass led to exotically inviting methods such as the use of test tones from samplers, which was reflected by track titles such as Testone by Sweet Exorcist. Classics like Nightmares on Wax's Aftermath, 808 States' Cubic and Orbital's Chime owe their existence to such bass probes and defined the Hardcore sound of the North: Bleep & Bass.

Shut Up And Dance's fast Hip Hop: While low frequencies received the undivided attention in the South, the North was on a different track. Distinguished by Black music, the Greater London area with its influences of Hip Hop, Funk and Northern Soul's Rare Groove, was the home to two young Blacks, PJ and Smiley, known better as Shut Up and Dance (SUAD). On their label of the same name they released tracks in which breakbeats took the place of programmed beats. Notwithstanding earlier experiments in this direction, among others by heroes like Tod Terry, Frankie Bones, Lenny D or Fast Eddie and Tyre, it was left to SUAD to help bring about a breakbeat breakthrough in the dance floor context. Their approach undermined the Do It Yourself ethos of Hardcore. In cut and paste style, armed only with turntables, sampler and sequencer, they got to work and started to pitch Def Jam records from 100 BPM to 130 BPM and rap over it. Their methodology was also an expression of their self-image, in which they saw themselves more as a fast Hip Hop crew than a part of the rave culture from which they kept their distance, one reason being its blatant glorification of drugs. Track names like Here Comes a Different Type of Rap Track, Not the Usual 4 Bar Loop Crap were obvious statements in this direction. Not only drugs were criticized in SUAD lyrics, but sociological issues, racism and the increasing commercial exploitation of electronic dance music were themes as well. Despite their conflicted relationship to rave culture they were accepted by ravers with open arms and the Hardcore trend of Hip House they unleashed became a huge success, which crowned in the SUAD track Raving, I'm Raving. Meant as a parody of the party craze, the track quickly became a Hardcore anthem and the first nail in the coffin of their budding career. Raving, I'm Raving was based in large parts on Walking in Memphis, a piece by Marc Cohen who promptly sued SUAD for breach and damages because they had generously declined to get permission from Cohen's record label. The subsequent lawsuit and derivate expenses caused SUAD to preliminarily go out of business until the unnerved pair reemerged on the stage with the statement Phuck the Bizz. Nevertheless SUAD had achieved an avalanche of new breakbeat-based tracks, among them some by Ragga Twins who had been signed by SUAD's label and who, with their combination of B-Boy Breaks, Dancehall Reggae, Dub Bass and Euro Techno riffs, painted the rising sun of Jungle onto the horizon.

Energy Flash - Hardcore Tekkno: Southern England's Bleep & Bass or the more Northern Hip House had little in common with the Hardcore from the mainland. The Belgian-German axis around legendary labels like R&S or PCP with acts like Lenny D, Mundo Muzique and Joey Beltram drove Hardcore into even harder territory by fusing their EBM and Industrial influences with Techno, resulting in a faster, more aggressive and energetic mixture. Beltram's Energy Flash and perhaps more importantly Mentasm were early anthems of this new Hardcore culture in which hardness and speed were en vogue and manifested themselves in terms like Tekkno. Mentasm in particular, because of the famous mentasm stab, turned into a key track of all Hardcore genres. The ear-splitting sound of the mentasm stab which was celebrated in tracks like T99's Anasthasia or Cubic 22's Night in Motion became the unifying trademark of a whole generation of Hardcore producers on both sides of the Dover Channel and also influenced Breakbeat acts like 4 Hero, Doc Scott and Rufige Cru (Goldie) who shortly thereafter would play a vital role in the conception of Jungle, the precursor to today's Drum & Bass.

The Road to the Charts - Hardcore becomes mainstream: By 1992 Hardcore had finally evolved into a self-contained genre which, especially in England, was based on breakbeats and samples and was having more and more breakthroughs to the mainstream thanks to acts like Altern8, Moby, Human Resource, Shades of Rhythm and last but not least Prodigy. In January '92, Prodigy's Everybody in the Place shot straight to number two in the UK charts, something that in the same year was paralleled by SL2 with On a Ragga Tip and Shut Up And Dance with the previously mentioned Raving, I'm Raving. Prodigy's Liam Howlett, Keith Flint and Maxime Reality represented a slightly smoother, mass-appealing form of Hardcore, without ever really separating from it completely, and became one of the most influential Breakbeat acts ever who, after three top 5 hits, had the honor of being the first Hardcore crew to have a commercial success with their Experience album. If it wasn't the case before, most definitely now Breakbeat had established a solid place in the dancefloor business.

Speed freaks - Into the jungle: While the big rave anthems enjoyed their accelerating chart success, in London an even more radical form of Hardcore sprung forth. With hectic breakbeats, Dub Reggae bass and high-pitched vocal samples these tracks seemed in tune with the tradition of Shut Up and Dance-influenced Breakbeat House, but their emphasis on beats and bass was uncharacteristically more aggressive and energetic, which gave the music an artificial, mind-altering quality which SUAD's fast Hip Hop never accomplished. Without adopting the sociological graveness of their predecessors, the predominantly Black producers created a genre that molded their experiences in the urban jungle with rhythm and sound. And the music got fast. From 1992 on at the latest, Hardcore was also a culture of speed. In the beginning of 1991 the average rave track was still chilling at 125 BMP but by the end of 1992, 150 BPM was no longer a rarity. In the search for the ultimate kick, the DJ's used rebuilt turntables to speed up their tracks by up to +20. The high speed changed the music, melted the elements into a mass of rhythmically pulsating sound, Beltram stab, Italo-Piano riffs and high-pitched vocals. In their competition for the newest, most innovative sound, labels like Moving Shadow, Suburban Bass, Reinforced and producers like Rob Playford, Andy C, Goldie aka Rufige Kru, Hyper on Experience, Hype and many, many more drove forward at mach speed this new form of Hardcore. I Bring You the Future, the Future, the Future thumped the vocals from Noise Factory's Breakage #4, and they were not mistaken. This sound became the basis for the first fifteen minutes of fame of Breakbeat, and the Ibiza Label covers prophetically bore the key word which lent its name to the new movement: Junglizm.

Examples of breakbeat artists?
I believe there should be some of the more popular breakbeat artists mentioned here, most other musical genre pages list artists and I believe someone visiting this page would expect such a thing.

Comments? --195.92.168.163 15:50, 24 July 2005 (UTC)

Why is this being claimed as a mid-90s genre? I was hearing stuff like the Prodigy and Sonz of a Loop da Loop Era described as breakbeat in 92 and 93, and the early "Toontown" and "Schizo" stuff was out in 91... You know, "hardcore".


 * This is correct. Hardcore (or breakbeat hardcore) was around in the early-1990s. I'd also watch calling breakbeat hardcore as "AKA rave music" on this article. It is only one component of "rave music" along with the vocal rave and Euro techno. Also, not everyone in the UK was calling breakbeat hardcore as "rave music" either. Such music was more connected with the south UK. --Revolt 08:25, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Breakbeat basics!
I found the discussion very helpful, when compared to the initial Wiki on "Breakbeat". For readers who want basic information and less use of unfamiliar terminology, I offer this information on what a breakbeat actually is from a musical and historical standpoint. I agree with the idea of a 1974 explosion of breakbeat dancing, but musically the "breakbeat" goes back even further. The musical fiber of a breakbeat comes down to snare emphasis and overall tempo. A breatbeat is essentially a basic "rock 'n roll" beat played at a dance tempo. Over 95% of all breakbeats emphasize the snare on 2 and 4, using a 4/4 time signature. Just like many rock beats, the kick pattern usually remains fairly simple, sometimes introducing some syncopation. Historically, if one can track when drummers began slamming the snare on 2 and 4 at faster tempos, one can identify when the breakbeat was musically invented. This all happened when jazz drummers were told to perform with less "shuffle", to compliment the emerging new rock 'n roll genre. Early Chuck Berry records help illustrate the transition between jazz and rock. If you want to find the breakbeat room at your local club, just listen for the big fat snare beats on 2 and 4!


 * Please sign your posts on talk pages per Sign your posts on talk pages. Thanks! Hyacinth 23:49, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Hmm we are getting there but BreakBeats came a long time before rock and roll. Try the 20s and 30s Black Swing groups, those brothers had funky soul! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.79.157.27 (talk) 02:49, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry, the breakbeat entree requires urgent updates. It confuses the topic when the tag 'breakbeat' is retroactively assigned to music that is not generated by either turntablist/DJ techniques or a sampler. It is common knowledge among breakbeat musicians that the history of the breakbeat lies in the early American hip hop DJ techniques of the 1970s (specifically New York); rap and electro of the 1980s; and in the UK also in hardcore rave, jungle, drum 'n' bass. The development of broken beats is related, but here the aesthetic veeres away.

The breakbeat is derived from the rhythm break in a music recording - this is *not* a breakbeat until it has been treated/processed. In this sense, The Winston's recording "Amen Brother" did not feature a breakbeat recording in its original state, but a small section from this has *become* a breakbeat. In the case of the 'Amen Break', Mantronix' electro recording 'King of the Beats' was central to the processing of this break during the late 1980s, to become the basis of many jungle and drum 'n' bass recordings in the UK during the (early to mid-) 1990s. For hip-hop, another important breakbeat sample is the Apache break.

Sources:
 * Mark Butler's book 'Unlocking the Groove'
 * Tricia Rose's book 'Black Noise'
 * Simon Reynold's book 'Energy Flash: A Journey Through Rave Music and Dance Culture'
 * David Toop's book 'Rap Attack'
 * Grandmaster Flash's demonstration of breaking the beat in the film 'Wild Style': http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOd1zGi1gKE
 * Nate Harrison's 20-minute video on the Amen Break: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SaFTm2bcac
 * More on the Amen Break: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amen_break
 * For the Apache breakbeat, see also the following documentary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tX2vZSz_MFQ
 * For the 'Yeah! Woo!' breakbeat, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeah!_Woo!

By the way, a section on the Breakbeat can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drum_break

There are also sections on breakbeat music genres, such as hip-hop, electro, jungle and drum 'n' bass, from which a decent summary can be derived for this breakbeat entry. Nozem (talk) 23:11, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Breaks vs Breakbeat
Having worked in dance music a few years back when breakbeat really started to take off, I would suggest that breaks and breakbeat have different origins - breaks coming out of the hip hop scene as described in the article whereas breakbeat came directly out of drum'n'bass, because it used a 'broken' beat (i.e. not the standard dance music 4/4 beat) but could be differentiated from drum'n'bass due to the lack of heavy bass elements common in d'n'b. I suggest a complete rewrite of this entry to reflect this.

SupernautRemix 17:51, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree, breakbeat has nothing to do with jazz or funk breaks. I wonder how wikipedia manages to get almost everything either wrong or unreadable.


 * Because people leave pointless comments like this instead of contributing. You don't like something, you have all the power to fix it! marnues (talk) 04:30, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Well for the same reason you are both wrong. Drum and Bass came WAY after breakbeats I am afraid. The ability to produce DnB sub Basslines came a long time after a drummer got funky with the 4/4 drum pattern and hip hop also stole its samples from Funk wich in turn took samples from BigBand and Jazz. Listen to 20s and 30s swing to see what I mean. BreakBeat is 'Dance Music ON JAZZ' if Jazz were a drug.

A history lesson in music is always better than one about war. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.79.157.27 (talk) 02:47, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

The breakbeat is *derived* from the rhythm break in a music recording - this is *not* a breakbeat until it has been treated/processed. So there is no point in arging about what came first or who stole what from whom - it is in the the creative act of sampling that a soundbite becomes a breakbeat Nozem (talk) 23:14, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Notability of Breakcore
The Breakcore article has no real sources, most of the article is POV and OR and the genre seems a very vague definition. I can find very little evidence of it's existance in any other sense than a slang word used to describe breakbeat and IDM music. I propose to merge it with Breakbeat. Discuss Here. --Neon white 22:11, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

As a breakcore dj and fan, i suggest you to get a documentary film called "notes on breakcore". http://www.breakcore.net/ You will see, that it is not only a slang term for breakbeat and IDM. --Break!fast.sk 09:56, 13 October 2007 (UTC)


 * The article does not have enough sources, there's no dispute that it is used in the naming of club nights etc, but there simply is very little evidence that it is condisered a genre and notable enough for its own page. What i'm actually proposing is a redirect as there is little verifiable info on the breakcore page to merge. If more sourced info becomes available it can be added to a section of the breakbeat page and if this becomes significant it may earn its own page. --Neon white 23:02, 13 October 2007 (UTC)


 * What "sources"? Breakcore has been misrepresented in every single journalistic text I have read about the subject. Which are quite a few by now, which i would rather not quote, thank you.


 * In it's very essense "breakcore" defies a serious enceclopedian approach, it is way to versatile to be grasped by one article.
 * Everyone has a different opinion on what it is, it exists, that's for sure, Hundreds of records are released, hundreds of parties are held, thousands of people participate. but what definition if should get will always be subjective.


 * And the wikipedia article about it will never reach established criteria.


 * Alot of artists that would be considered breakcore actively refuse to call themselves "breakcore"!


 * how could consesus be reached?


 * As to the existence of the genre, if you would put "breakbeat" on a poster /flyer in Belgium, you would get maybe 50 people to show up, if you put "breakcore" you get hundreds. Real life takes precedence over quotable "sources" It's all matter of perspective.Droon 18:39, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Proposing mutliple merges
There are a number of articles that have no sources and lack in notabilty that could easily be contained in this article under a 'sub genres' heading. I am proposing Breakcore, Broken beat, Florida breaks, Hardcore breaks, Nu skool breaks, Rave Breaks be merged here. Remember not every single sub genre, alternative term and neologism needs it's own article. -- neon white talk 16:35, 8 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Do you even know what you're talking about? Broken Beat, Breakcore, and Nu-Breaks/Florida Breaks are all notably distinct SCENES with indvidual histories... their fanbase does not really overlap AT ALL... and broken beat is so tenuously related to BREAKBEATS in general that it definitely needs its own article.


 * The fundamental difference is that this page is about the Breakbeat and its background and history rather than a page on genres. The genres listed (Breakcore, Broken beat, Florida breaks, Hardcore breaks, Nu skool breaks, Rave Breaks) all contain Breakbeats but it could easily be expanded to include Drum & Bass, Hip Hop, etc that also make extensive use of Breakbeats. I would say that due to the huge differences between the genres that Neon White is suggesting merging that it is not viable to do this. For instance there is very little overlap between Breakcore and Broken Beat. On a side note I'm questioning the section on Jungalistic Hardcore as Breakbeat Hardcore was around before '92 and was referred to as Hardcore with the term Jungalistic being more of a slang term applied as Jungle emerged in '93/'94. Fluffski 14 Oct 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fluffski (talk • contribs) 09:27, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

At the very least it should be explained Breakbeats are at the core of ALL of those styles of music, other wise we are doing BreakBeats a diss service —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.79.157.27 (talk) 02:43, 16 November 2010 (UTC) I cannot find references to jungalistic hardcore as a separate style either in web searching or books. Seeing as how that was questioned in 2008 and it is now 2012, is it time to remove the line? Mkantonelli1 (talk) 05:27, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Broken Beat removed
Broken Beat is far too related to House and Techno to be lumped into here. Whoever defined it as "organic" funk like Breakestra is just plain wrong, broken beat is more stuff like Recloose, Kuniyuki, Russ Gabriel, etc... it is actually quite SYNTHETIC although it does have "organic" elements... SEE HERE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_beat —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.131.181.155 (talk) 05:58, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Breakbeat and Backbeat
I think there should be a link at the top of this article or the article entitled Back beat, since they sound similar. This way people won't be confused. --Robo56 (talk) 22:47, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

THE ORIGIN OF 'BREAKBEATS'
This article needs a rehaul, we can mention notable breaks revivals but it started a LONG time ago.

Breakbeats are actully derrived not from 70s funk, rock although The Beatles loved to throw down a breakbeat, electronic music or hip hop, breakbeats come from JAZZ. Breakbeats are at least 100 years old, if you listen to BigBand Swing you can hear the drummer playing breakbeats in popular tracks such as the Charleston, this is also reflected in the dance style which has a similar jerky movemnt to the 80s revival of b boy break dancing... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uV3u-xR_Sos Watch that if you dont believe just how old breakbeats are. (dont worry I wont post it on the article)

Other notable examples of breakbeats are Buddy Rich The Beat Goes On http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zblr8g3P7tw The Winstons Amen Brother http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxZuq57_bYM which is sampled in a LOT of drum & bass at double speed.

The term Breakbeats refers to the breaks in a normal 4/4 drum pattern. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.79.157.27 (talk) 02:41, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Here is an article about a modern jazz musician using breakbeats: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa5327/is_300/ai_n29107683/ and another article with a timeline for electronic and dance in general: http://www.digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_timeline-elec.html. Having listened to the old music growing up (early 1900's through 40's on KCLW in Detroit) the user above is absolutely correct that breakbeats have been around for a LONG time in music. I think that this is where many people can get confused. Mkantonelli1 (talk) 05:58, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Summary is incorrect
Now, I could be wrong, but I don't think the "break" in the "breakbeat" name refers to funk and jazz when the rhythm would cease playing and allow a melodic solo. I'm pretty sure that the "break" refers to the fact that the kick does not fall on every quarter note. The beat is broken, not the structure of the song. Every songs that are steady beat have breaks in the song. That's not unique to breakbeat. 65.93.54.176 (talk) 13:00, 19 March 2012 (UTC)


 * There's no reference, so if you are sure the info is incorrect, please remove it. Try to find a reference to better define it though. --Pmsyyz (talk) 05:46, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Rewrote introduction
I have rewritten the article's introduction to attempt to reflect a more holistic understanding of the word 'breakbeat'. Any and all criticism is welcome. I am tired of idly observing the deterioration of such an important article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.227.15.211 (talk) 14:35, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

History of breaks/breakbeat
Im no expert on this subject and only read this article in an attempt to learn more about the subject. Still, Im pretty certain there is a slight inaccuracy, as well as a grammatical error in the first sentence of the 2cnd paragraph:

"Breakbeats, as in "A breakbeat" (1) have been known and used for around a hundred years, and are widely known for being sampled by many early producers of hip hop, where the "break" in a song, usually only a few seconds long, is looped to create basis for an entire new song."

Really?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 42.112.139.76 (talk) 16:38, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

When did breakbeat become a genre rather than a term for a sampled drum loop?
I ran a recording studio and produced dance music in London from 1995 and did not come across anyone using the term breakbeat to describe a music genre until 1996/97. The terms big beat and breakbeat often seem to be interchangeable, but I think there are clear differences. Breakbeat tends to be more heavily sample-based, like sped up late 1980s hip-hop, but often without the rap, while big beat records have breaks augmented with single drum machine/sample hits. So, for example, 'Busy Child' by The Crystal Method, 'Block Rockin' Beats' by The Chemical Brother and 'Breathe' by The Prodigy are all big beat records, while 'B-Boy Stance' by the Freestylers, 'Ooh La La' by The Wiseguys and Bentley Rhythm Ace's 'Theme From Gutbuster' are breakbeat records.

While I would agree that some early 1990s acid house/rave music could be described as breakbeat, such as 'Don't Hold Back' by Blapps! Posse (co-written by Aston Harvey, later of the Freestylers), this would be a retrospective application, because I think the term was not used to describe a genre until around 1996 and the launch of labels such as Freskanova. It would be interesting to find the earliest use of the term to describe a genre in the music press. Neither DJ Magazine nor Mixmag have back issues online, but Mojo magazine uses the term in a piece on Red Snapper in 1997:

Red Snapper/1997/Chris Ingham/MOJO/Mojo Rising: Red Snapper/22/03/2016 23:05:36/http://www.rocksbackpages.com.ezproxy.leedsbeckett.ac.uk/Library/Article/mojo-rising-red-snapper

I accept that this is a very UK-centric view, and the term may well have been used to describe a genre in other countries prior to 1996. ____ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jresfilter (talk • contribs) 23:16, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

Just an anonymous comment on this: BREAKBEAT was DEFINITELY used as a genre name circa 1990 and 1991. It was a subgenre of hardcore (or ardkore, they used all sort of spelling for it) featuring rapid loops of drums. 4Hero produced a LP of this genre in 1991, "In Rough Territories". Tiga, not DJ Tiga, but Tiga, the canadian producer, had a show on CKUT named Tiga And Gnat and would use the term frequently back in 1992, that's in Canada, so we're always a couple years late. And I'm sorry, but the Baltimore Club sound came after the UK. The article makes it sounds as if the breakbeat school in UK came at the same time, attempting to ignore the influence of the UK rave era on the rest of the world. No, instead, if you are worried that breakbeat was cultural appropriation, than just write that, because it WAS. It started really as an appropriation of hip hop records played faster. Yes, forget the funk breaks. Hip Hop took the funk breaks. Breakbeat just took the Hip Hip records that already sampled those breaks, and looped them faster. The music genre "breakbeat" has little to do with hip hop turntablists, in fact. It was more a digital tool phenomena (like loops made using Fruityloops). The term break is very old in hip hop, jazz, etc, but this is far-fetched history when concerning the birth of the post-techno music genre called "breakbeat" (and forget "breakbeat hardcore", it's simplier to call it "breakbeat techno", at the time breakbeat emerged from hardcore (hardcore techno), but breakbeat isn't always "hardcore". Ok: terms like break and beat were used aplenty by the hip hop djs, and in electro music ("everybody in the streets, get down to the funky beat... Brrrreak!!", but "breakbeat" as a whole word, I'd need to hear it in an interview from a DJ before 1988 if you can find it, but regardless, the american hip hop scene wasn't "aware" when The Scientist's "The Exorcist" came out (in 1990). As for Baltimore Club, yes, early Blapps Records were played in UK raves, but its influence as a "scene" came later on. For some ackward reason, Baltimore was playing the uk rave music that most of the rest of USA was ignoring (apart from the UK acid house, which was reflective of the US original scene). References: just dig some old Melody Makers, they would've covered the early rave history. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.252.77.71 (talk) 17:26, 9 February 2017 (UTC)


 * I don't want to step into a minefield but I am currently working on Florida breaks which I believe may resolve many of the current and past discussion points about the 1990s history of the electronic dance music genre vs the wider subject. Please see the sections at Talk:Florida breaks for sources.  All assistance in further development is appreciated.
 * The term Syncopation is important to understand or define Break beat. New Beat needs some attention from a music expert too.  Johnvr4 (talk) 21:16, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

Split into two articals
I would recommend splitting this article into two articles “Breakbeat” (1), the drum Pattern and “Breakbeat” (2) the music genre are really two completely different subjects. It creates confusion to have both definition in the same article.

Furthermore, it is standard practice to have each major electronic genre on its own separate article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.22.59.226 (talk) 03:06, 13 December 2016 (UTC)


 * I'm not saying I oppose, still, I'm not sure. First with "(1), the drum Pattern", do you mean the same as (1) in the lead?:

""A breakbeat" (1), a section of a song in which, typically, all or at least most of the instruments stop for a period, usually around one bar, except for the drums, which would continue the melody even if altered. Since the rise of electronic music it can now also refer to the electronic music genre "Breakbeat" (2), characterized as a genre of groove-oriented music which utilizes a lo-fi sampled breakbeat (or combination of breakbeats) for the main drum beat, and usually incorporates other lo-fi sampled "hits" as well."


 * I'm sure I've heard breakbeat (and rave etc. and might mix up stuff..). As much as a WP article, a text format, can explain music genres, I find it reasonable, to explain it (2), with an example (1). [I'm assuming the samples are of, the drum patterns.] Wouldn't that be lost if you split up? Technically you could split up, and be correct, but shuold an encyclopedia, such as WP, not try to explain to clueless people, rather than say, just list bands that fall under the umbrella term Breakbeat?


 * Since I'm here, the lead continues:

"Breakbeats, as in "A breakbeat" (1) have been known and used for around a hundred years, and are widely known for being sampled by many early producers of hip hop, where the "break" in a song, usually only a few seconds long, is looped to create basis for an entire new song."


 * Is (1) there the same as the former (1)? and "sampled" seems kind of strange for "hundred years" old music.. Maybe not, how old are media [records] and how far back are they sampled..? Could this text be clarified. comp.arch (talk) 11:44, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

You want us to donate? Go to hell.
Stop removing worthwhile article material like Madness Combat and Cheshyre Hodges. Goddamn you mods are corrupt 72.38.137.234 (talk) 14:37, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

First Usage
On this wikipedia page it says the first use of the break is 'king of the beats' by Mantronix. On the Amen break's own wikipedia page it says the first use is 'I Desire' by 'Salt-N-Pepa' which predates it by two years (1986). I'm not gonna change it cos I've gotten in trouble for making perfectly valid and well researched edits to wikipedia pages before, but would anyone else with more familiarity with the process consider doing so? 51.6.191.57 (talk) 17:13, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Reverted edit
Hello Solidest. I am pinging you in regards to my recent edit to this article, you reverted. Please see p. 373 and  for further reference. Qaqaamba (talk) 12:34, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Hi . See MOS:SEEALSO. You should put this into the context of the article, so that it is clear why the genres have a link in this section. Given that this connection is not shown in any way at all in the text of the article - this link is feeling out of place. Your put gqom link in the other articles and it was reverted for the very same reason by other people. The connection between the subjects is not apparent from the text of the article. Solidest (talk) 12:40, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Do you mean that instead of "simply" listing additional genres under See also I should incorporate them into the articles or elaborate on them (given that there is a link) and omit it in all entirety from See also to obvs avoid repetition and no clarity given for the reader, in that case as I've done before? Qaqaamba (talk) 13:21, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm not really sure why you archived the discussion in the mainspace - it's not a standard practice to archive talks that were started on the same day, especially when the problem is not solved, given that you bring gqom back to the article without getting the consensus first. So, the point is that the connection between breakbeat and gqom should be obvious to the reader or someone familiar with the topics. Right now, such a connection is unclear and it rather looks like an promotion of the article. Breakbeat is not mentioned anywhere in gqom article. And for breakbeat gqom or even African scene didn't play a significant role based on the article content - it's more like further reading barely associated with initial topic. And I'm not even sure if this article can serve as further reading - the connection here is no more than between dozens of other edm genres distantly derived or loosely related to breakbeat. And if we put everything barely related in there (like whole hardcore edm tree), it won't make sense for this section. So please clarify this connection in the articles, or remove the genre from this section. Solidest (talk) 14:28, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks, . Solidest (talk) 14:40, 4 June 2024 (UTC)