Talk:Brisbane/Archive 5

Redesign Montage
Considering and  both decided to repeatedly take down my previous montage (at least MrGeneric gave a reason, Subtropical-man gave no reason at all for taking down my montage), I am going to again bring the issue back to the talk page. If people can post what ideas or certain pictures they would like to see in a montage then please post your suggestions below, thanks.--Caltraser55 (talk) 05:35, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
 * First: reason and suggestions? please read above. Second: I support uses Template:Photomontage than create new files with montage. Also, I wrote about it above. Please, start reading the texts by others and think about what others are saying. Everyone has the right to their own opinion, you too, but until there is a clear consensus - a change of photomontage is forbidden!!! Subtropical -man  (talk / en-2 ) 17:15, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Your English is very hard to read, but I'm asking you to post what landmarks you wish to see in the montage, it is irrelevant how the montage is made.--Caltraser55 (talk) 00:40, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Well what about the previous montage do you disagree with?--Caltraser55 (talk) 01:22, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
 * suggestions? OK. Again:
 * I support uses Template:Photomontage than create new files with montage. Why? a lot of possibilities, we can change any graphics of the photomontage at any time, we do not have to create new files and wait for any changes in pictures. Also this is additional protection against non free graphics (for example: MrGeneric299' case who upload photomontage with free and not free images from Internet). Displaying the description of picture after moving the mouse pointer to picture, clicking makes the image larger. Old "handmade" collage is relict, time to enter the 21th century.
 * Both photomontages is too large, better is ~5 pictures (3 rows) like in Madrid
 * Poor main graphic in your photomontage (skyline)
 * as Inkfoot wrote - gasworks to remove
 * "1 William Street" skyscraper to remove. Why picture of one skyscraper in infobox of the city?
 * Generally, you still have not provided a reason to delete my proposal . Subtropical -man  (talk / en-2 ) 02:21, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Your suggestions seem quite reasonable to me. The gasworks should be replaced with something else. I can sort of understand why 1 William Street is in the montage considering how much it stands out on the skyline, but the space should be used for something more interesting. I also agree that the skyline should ultimately be updated with a modern image rather than using one from several years ago. Inkfoot (talk) 06:44, 10 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Okay then, I would be willing to swap the CBD image for something newer but then link me something that's on Wikimedia that both looks good and is new, (example: Skytower is not yet finished) and I'm positive the CBD image Subtropical-Man is showing is actually much older than mine, not to mention bad quality in my opinion. I would also like it to be a main image, 1x1, 1x1, then another main, but this is just a preference if it looks good im not fussed. I'd like to see CBD as main, I think perhaps a Queenslander (architecture), City Hall, City Botanic Gardens, and maybe the Queensland Parliament (which I think is more significant than the Treasury) but again can change this, and for second main would be the South Bank image with QPAC.--Caltraser55 (talk) 11:52, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Or instead of Queensland Parliament it could be the War Memorial, which is also a major landmark or St Johns Cathedral, all major landmarks, maybe I would prefer the War Memorial though--Caltraser55 (talk) 11:55, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I see the consensus for skyline, ok. Let's choose about four additional photos. There are several proposals: City Hall, City Botanic Gardens, Queenslander, Queensland Parliament, Story Bridge, St Johns Cathedral, South Bank Parklands, other? I have nothing against picture of Queenslander hause or War Memorial (but not to create more photos to larger photomontage), I against for Queensland Parliament, St Johns Cathedral (church like a church - it does not stand out in relation to a million others, this is not famous Sagrada Familia). My opinion: first row - skyline, second row - Brisbane City Hall and Story Bridge, third row - City Botanic Gardens or/and War Memorial or/and Queenslander. Subtropical -man  (talk / en-2 ) 13:55, 10 December 2018 (UTC)


 * No Skyline has not reached consensus, Story Bridge and Skyline should be in the main image like in the one I had. Then it could be in 1st row; City Hall, War memorial, 2nd row; a Queenslander, City Botanic Gardens, then one bottom main image of the Southbank Parklands/QPAC. What do you think?--Caltraser55 (talk) 01:56, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Maybe use this image for the skyline? (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:River_views_of_Brisbane_CBD,_October_2018,_02.jpg) I found it on the Commons and it's dated from this year. Inkfoot (talk) 04:18, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I would be happy with that--Caltraser55 (talk) 07:04, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Inkfoot, although I think it's better to use nicer image made a few years ago than to use inferior image because must be the newest one, however, I am not against your proposal of image. Subtropical -man  (talk / en-2 ) 13:22, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I tend to favour things unique to the place. So maybe one of a CityCat? Kerry (talk) 21:33, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
 * File:Brisbane City and River-04+ (187941890).jpg, (Link won't work for some reason--Caltraser55 (talk) 01:47, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Brisbane City and River-04+ (187941890).jpg, that's a nice image as it shows the river and the CBD skyline as a bonus. The link isn't working for you because of the spaces. Once it is wrapped with the square brackets it is OK. Tip. If you look on Wikimedia Commons rather than Wikipedia for images, then when you find the one you like (in this case, this one, you will see at the top of the page, some links to Download, Use this File, Use this File, Email a link, Information. The second "Use this File" (with the Wikipedia W to the left) is the one you want, click it and then copy the text in the "thumbnail box" and then just paste it into the article or the Talk page in this case. Much easier than constructing that same text by hand. Kerry (talk) 03:58, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Okay thankyou--Caltraser55 (talk) 11:32, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I also support photo of CityCat to the montage. I finded two categories (mistake propably) in commons and very very many photos of CityCats without categories. I sorted the photos, now there is one category and dozens lost photos are in one place - commons:Category:CityCat ferries. Subtropical -man  (talk / en-2 ) 14:18, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
 * The picture linked above is very out of date. Does not show 1 William, Sky Tower and other newer buildings. The Newstead/Hamilton angle is not a good one. It was previously determined that any Skyline image in the sidebar should be from the Kangaroo Point image as that is the definitive angle for images of the Brisbane skyline which shows its fullest extent. I think the obvious thing to do is wait until Skytower, our new tallest building, is completed before changing the main skyline image which is fine until that time. It seems silly to change the skyline image now when Skytower is about 98% completed with only some cladding on the top 3 or 4 floors yet to go on. Why wouldn't you just wait a month or two for the new tallest building in the city to be completed before making a change to the skyline image montage with what will be its most prominent building covered in scaffolding at the top with a crane still on! Seems crazy to me! StormcrowMithrandir (talk) 05:34, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
 * , there are no skylines from 2018 in Commons, sorry. We can wait these two months but what guarantee do we have that someone will take a good photo and send it to Commons? Subtropical -man  (talk / en-2 ) 15:11, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I agree with Subtropicalman, there are few good quality images of the skyline, and they aren't uploaded very often at all. I'm fine with whatever angle the CBD is taken from but it should be a good quality picture.--Caltraser55 (talk) 02:55, 13 January 2019 (UTC)


 * [] I think this should be the image used to represent Queenslander architecture, its a much better image that the current one.--Caltraser55 (talk) 02:59, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Caltraser55, good proposition. Subtropical -man  (talk / en-2 ) 21:09, 14 January 2019 (UTC)


 * For me, the above collages are ok. The order of photos for discussion. Possible to change the (updated) skyline for two months, according to post by user:StormcrowMithrandir (above). Does anyone have any other suggestions? Subtropical -man  (talk / en-2 ) 21:27, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Very nice, I think I prefer the top one but using the bottom montage city cat image, also what about the CBD image Inkfoot proposed? I also think the image of the City Botanic Gardens should be replaced with an image of City Hall at night.--Caltraser55 (talk) 01:20, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Maybe this one? Brisbane City Hall at night.jpg
 * I have question: how many city halls are in the metropolis? Will not be controversial for other users - photo of one city hall in article of metropolis (statistical area with many municipalities)? That's why I wanted to avoid the picture of city hall and..... churches in montage (metropolis has no internationally well-known churches and Wikipedia should be religiously neutral). If there are no other city halls and no objections from other users, I will not oppose either. In the case of a CityCat+panorama photo, this photo is from 2006, it is not suitable for the main picture of the panorama. Subtropical -man  ( ✉  | en-2 ) 23:30, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
 * The Brisbane City Hall is arguably one of Australia's grandest buildings, its to Brisbane what Flinders Station is to Melbourne.--Caltraser55 (talk) 07:01, 18 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Ok, but there will be a problem to use a longitudinal photo of city hall. The skyline is updated when there is a new photo (for 2 months), per post by StormcrowMithrandir. Can there be something like that? Subtropical -man  ( ✉  | en-2 ) 15:35, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I like the above with city hall (which it definitely must include), but I think it also needs one further row underneath which should include the City Botanic Garden (or a New Farm Park) image and next to that, it absolutely must have an image of the Storey Bridge, which is without question Brisbane's most iconic structure - there's no way it can't be included, lit up at night. If not city botanic gardens for the other one, something of Tangalooma, moreton or stradbroke or the Bay. Then once Skytwoer is done we can just update the skyline image. I might even take one if I have to from the top of Kangaroo Point. The above montage with the extra park/bay and storey bridge photos on an additional row (and the height of each image fixed to be even - one of them is slightly out) I would support. StormcrowMithrandir (talk) 23:33, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I suppose you can post that montage then SubtropicalMan, I think the Queensland Cultural Centre image is a little out of size but its okay.--Caltraser55 (talk) 01:29, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
 * The wrongly sized Cultural Centre image just needs to be downloaded, cropped slightly at each side and re-uploaded as a new image file so that the height ratio is the same as the other images. Also it still definitely needs a Story Bridge image as it is the most iconic structure in the city. If not adding another row then replace the pretty generic City Cat or Cultural Centre images or the Queenslander image with one of the Story Bridge lit up at night. It just can't be left out of any montage of Brisbane. StormcrowMithrandir (talk) 06:26, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

Here we go - gets rid of the non-descript image with the sizing issue and replaces it with the more iconic story bridge with the bonus of an actual up to date skyline in the background:

StormcrowMithrandir (talk) 06:48, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

BUT then there is one image which doesn't fit in with all the others in terms of size (unless someone wants to crop and re-upload) so how about either of the following:

1) Replace non-descript CityCat with 10 year out of date Skyline with our finest building, the Treasury Building:

OR, 2) Replace non-descript CityCat with 10 year out of date Skyline with Botanic Gardens

OR 3) Have Story Bridge but also have a cultural centre image that is the right size (I would suggest visually the cultural centre is too generic so use Treasury Building instead

PLEASE VOTE FOR OPTION 1, 2 OR 3StormcrowMithrandir (talk) 06:59, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

My vote: Option 1 StormcrowMithrandir (talk) 07:12, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose to remove CityCat and add some building like Treasury Building. Treasury Building is building like million other in the world, CityCat is hallmarks/symbol of Brisbane, rarity among the cities of the world. I used the photo proposed by Kerry, we can use a newer photo of CityCat. I support option of 2 or 3 only, if second photo in second row (Brisbane City Botanic Gardens in option of 2 or South Brisbane Southbank in option of 3) will be replaced with a CityCat photo. My propositions is below. Subtropical -man  ( ✉  | en-2 ) 19:05, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

Option4a

Option4b

Option4c


 * I am happy with either 4a, 4b or 4c - perhaps 4a is the most photogenic.StormcrowMithrandir (talk) 23:55, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Ok, I also happy with 4b or 4c. Maybe in the near future someone will take a photo of CityCat near South Southbank / South Bank Parklands / Brisbane Eye, it will be perfect (2 in 1). Does anyone have any big objections to 4b or 4c? If there were no objections then we can change collage. Subtropical -man  ( ✉  | en-2 ) 02:01, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I'll agree to either 4B or 4C, anything to change the current terrible montage.--Caltraser55 (talk) 02:07, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

Demonym
There’s no reference cited for Brisbanite.

Any sources for Brisbanian?

MBG02 (talk) 04:10, 2 April 2019 (UTC)


 * Looking for sources? Google is our friend. I found sources for both easily (from ABC Radio in both cases, which is probably as reliable a source for colloquial usage) and have added them to the article. Kerry (talk) 22:37, 19 April 2019 (UTC)

Coordinate error
The following coordinate fixes are needed for s

—2607:FEA8:EA0:E5E:CC2D:882E:4795:652D (talk) 19:54, 19 April 2019 (UTC)


 * Not quite sure what the above means (seems to have been truncated). The coords in the article were definitely for Brisbane, albeit splashing you down in the Brisbane River between the CBD and Kangaroo Point, but since the article discusses Brisbane as a metropolis as distinct from City of Brisbane or Brisbane CBD as a suburb, that accuracy would seem sufficient. However, in the interests of avoiding an argument over where Brisbane's "centre" is for the purpose of coords, I decided to go with the "official" story and took the coords for Brisbane as a "population centre" from the Qld Govt's Place Name Database see and updated the infobox accordingly. These new coords point to just outside the General Post Office on Queen Street; whether that is intentional or accidental I don't know, but I think it's a satisfactory point to define as being the centre of Brisbane. Kerry (talk) 22:27, 19 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Just a small note, traditionally the post office was seen as the "centre" of a place and when coordinates were added, that conventiona was generally followed, which is probably why the GPO coordinates coincide with the GPO. -- Aussie Legend  ( ✉ ) 11:04, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

War of Southern Queensland
Let's discuss this. As far as the Brisbane is concerned, the issue is principally one of citation, which could perhas be dealt with by pulling the main citation out of War of Southern Queensland. But I think the real issue lies with that article, and I will comment more at Talk:War of Southern Queensland. Join me there. Kerry (talk) 00:42, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
 * There should not be a whitewash of history, this is based on pure racism by Bednarek.--Caltraser55 (talk) 00:45, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Your observance of WP:AGF is remarkable. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 05:11, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

Wrong data
In table of "Historical populations" in section of Brisbane there are wrong percentages, for example: 2001 1,693,556 and 2011 2,147,436 marked as "+2.40%"??? This is propably 24%. Some other data also are wrong. Please verify this. Subtropical -man ( ✉  | en-2 ) 20:28, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

Top of the column says % growth p.a. (per annum). So This means 2.4% growth per annum, ie over a 10 year period, that is indeed 24% - it is not a percentage for the 10 years, it is an average percentage per annum over that 10% yr period.-- Stormcrow Mithrandir  00:44, 21 September 2019 (UTC)

New skyline Image
Can I have consensus to change the montage skyline from this; To this; Any thoughts?Caltraser55 (talk) 04:52, 14 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Not opposed at all to this proposal. Clearly it needs to be changed as the existing image was taken before the completion of Brisbane's tallest building, the Skytower. I would personally favour one taken from the same angle taken from Kangaroo of which I think there are a few on Flickr, etc as it the most iconic angle of the Brisbane skyline and gives a good indication of the length and extent of the skyline and the width/scale of the river. So the same angle but including Skytower (and perhaps 1 William Street, although that might require panning too far out). Speaking of skyline shots, there is a really bad one taken from Mt Coot-tha under history, a very outdated one under climate and bizarrely a huge panoramic one of the skyline during expo 88 which is way too big/prominent. I would also favour replacing the citycat shot in the montage with one showing a citycat with someone more identifiable in the background eg Southbank parklands for instance - it would be easy to hit two birds with one stone in that way rather than just the citycat in isolation-- Stormcrow Mithrandir  07:05, 14 July 2019 (UTC)
 * On second thought I just did a preview with the proposed photo and I think it fits very well. Perhaps use it as the main image and I will find some good full-length skyline panoramic ones for use further down in the body in the coming weeks.-- Stormcrow Mithrandir  07:16, 14 July 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by StormcrowMithrandir (talk • contribs)
 * I think the new photo is a great lead image for Brisbane, plus you do get a bit of a view of the overall skyline from the Story Bridge photo anyway. That said, there are lots of great Brisbane skyline photos in CC on Flickr if anyone wants to go digging. Gracchus250 (talk) 07:49, 14 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the comments, the only problem I've had with the Kangaroo Point vantage is that the skyline looks "incomplete", 1 william street is huge then you have no towers, then Skytower which is huge, then it drops off and up again. In another 10 years I'm sure it will fill out and that angle will look superb. But at the moment I think the Eagle Street "Golden Triangle" section is by far the best looking section currently. I had no idea whether or not you can use Flickr images on Wikipedia? But I think the best current angle of the Brisbane CBD is from Howard Smith Wharves, it truly looks like NYC from that angle.--Caltraser55 (talk) 08:28, 14 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Also agree about the City cat image Mithrandir, when you think of London you think of double decker buses it is an icon of that city. So a City Cat is also in that way an icon of Brisbane but we could do it with another icon in the background, though there aren't many good images to use on Wikicommons. I like the current layout, but a better clearer image of the Story Bridge and of Brisbane City Hall (which is easily Brisbane's most iconic landmark) should be done. I want the Brisbane montage to be the best it can be to represent this great city, as there is current talk of Brisbane hosting the Olympic games and as it stands currently Brisbane has a very, VERY good chance of hosting the 2032 Olympic Games, but by doing the montage better hopefully we can give our city a boost to get there!--Caltraser55 (talk) 08:38, 14 July 2019 (UTC)
 * FWIW, I'd like to see more daylight photos. The current montage has a lot of night/illumination photos which are individually nice photos but don't give people unfamiliar with Brisbane much of an insight into the actual appearance of our icons. I agree about the idea of City Cat with "something else" iconic. Kerry (talk) 02:04, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I would like to voice my disgust at the current caretakers of this Wiki. The current state of this page is absolute s***. As someone who formerly contributed, the pics are disgusting, generic, and makes me ashamed. The entire article is rubbish now and it starts with the montage. The map looks horrible. If I had more time I would personally clean it up. But either the entire Wiki community has given up, or this needs some serious work. -Rodger Smith — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.20.69.122 (talk) 12:12, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I gave up. As a non-Brisbanite, I tried hard to convince those who love the place because they live there that their skyline is really not discernibly different from the skyline of any other modern city, to no avail. But it's not just this city's article where that's a problem. Skylines never look special, unless they contain something very unusual, very well known globally, and unique to that city. Within Australia, only Sydney has a chance on that front. (I'm not from Sydeny either.) HiLo48 (talk) 23:55, 21 September 2019 (UTC)

Beach
What is official name for this beach in South Bank Parklands? "Streets Beach"? Subtropical -man ( ✉  | en-2 ) 19:48, 21 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Visit Brisbane says it it's Streets Beach.  Wikipedia actually mentions it at South Bank Parklands. It's apparently named after Streets (ice cream).   HiLo48 (talk) 01:21, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

Deletion of cited content, loss of many citations
A recent series of edits has removed a lot of cited content for reasons that don't seem to conform to policy. In the process a lot of citations (40-ish) have also been deleted. Given this is an article with a long history, currently rated as B Class, I think there is a need to establish some consensus over whether topics need to be removed, summarised, etc. I'm not saying I saw no benefit in some of the things done, but it was done so quickly and in often in very large edits that it is difficult for others to react to the changes and influence their development. In particularly, one should err on the side of caution in deleting cited material, particularly when it has been in the article a long time (suggesting people may have liked it). Could we please talk through the major deletions and summarisations and establish some consensus first. Thanks Kerry (talk) 07:10, 28 October 2019 (UTC)


 * Hi Kerry, largely what I did in the edits was to rationalise the structure and add new material. To the extent material was removed, it was a very unwieldy table of minor suburban league sports teams not existing in equivalent city articles, quite a number of "spam" sentences with citations (eg where several sentences are used to describe certain minor suburban festivals or sports teams, obviously slipped in by interested parties over the years where a one word reference in a list would have sufficed while the rest of the cited material removed was largely very obscure and outdated content on eg council or state government policy debates during the 2000s or very outdated content which was also cited eg on "planned" Transapex tunnels and other resolved matters. In the edits I have also added large amounts of up to date and additional material which was sorely missing and took over six hours straight in total， although I certainly take your point that it was a large volume in a short timeframe, that is because I happened to have a large block of time I could dedicate on the one day and wanted to improve the article, which is the only way feasible for me. While I very much understand where you are coming from, if you look at each edit in isolation you will see the many much needed additions particularly in relation to history, geography, tourism and education, and that any removed cited content was either very outdated and no longer relevant (eg in relation to constructions which are now completed) or spam/promotionism/very obvious over emphasis for boosting purposes. The only other thing being references to the major floods which I removed as Caltraser expressed the view above that perhaps there was too much weather detail in the lede where detail is already in the relevant section. I was planning to add additional images on the model of the Melbourne article and go through commons to look for better or more up to date reoresentations of the existing images throughout the body. Noting what you have said I will do so gradually and in a piecemeal manner over a long period of time to reflect what you have said.-- Stormcrow Mithrandir  08:33, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

Houghton Highway
Surely a photo of this bridge is only marginally relevant to the Brisbane article. Could we not find a more central-to-Brisbane transport photo? Kerry (talk) 05:05, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

I think we certainly can however at the same time I think that it is relevant as the longest bridge in the Brisbane metro area to which this article relates and it may be positive to ensure that the article does not focus too heavily only on the very inner area when it relates to a very large metro area of over 2.5 million people-- Stormcrow Mithrandir  23:04, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

Location map template
We need create a Module:Location map/data/Australia Brisbane based on File:Map of Brisbane free and printable.svg to Category:Australia location map templates. Like Module:Location map/data/Australia Sydney. Who knows this? I created a module on pl.Wikipedia - pl:Moduł:Mapa/dane/Brisbane based on another map of File:Brisbane OpenStreetMap.png, unfortunately - errors in coordinates. You need a person who knows about it. Subtropical -man ( ✉  | en-2 ) 22:43, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Is Sydney's a different map scheme from this one - File:Brisbane OpenStreetMap.png ? The Sydney one does look better without the green lines everywhere. I will take a look over the next couple weeks to try work it out. Stormcrow Mithrandir  23:18, 18 May 2020 (UTC)


 * I just tried this and it seems like you need a PhD in computer programming to work the thing out. I do agree that for this article (and the Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide and Canberra articles) which also use the same map template that we have in the infobox or geography section, it would be far better to have some clickable open map where the reader can click on it, zoom in, explore around if somebody knows how to create the module properly so it can do that. Failing that I will ask the creator of the other modules how it is done.-- Stormcrow Mithrandir  00:12, 23 May 2020 (UTC)