Talk:British Columbia Provincial Police

Source of historical info
Kerr, (available at canadiana.org) discusses Governor Douglas's early decisions about policing in the colonies. KenWalker | Talk 04:05, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Cat suggestion
Since this page came up via Bobanny's were/was grammarfix in the opening, I might as well post here that it's occurred to me that Category:British Columbia Provincial Police, perhaps as a subcat of Category:Law enforcement in British Columbia (as subcat of [[:Category:Law enforcement in Canada; it would also include F&W and DFo officers and notable Mounties in BC history...and those with "Sherriff" as a title - which as I underestand it is an officer of the court rather than of the policing body - is that right Ken?)); there are a number of people who were either made policemen or otherwise deputized who we already have articles for - starting with Chartres Brew of course but including other figures; before I'm gone I'll be writing one on Dan Hurley, a Lillooet pioneer who was also the local cop and the cat in question would apply to him. Francis Jones Barnard also applies.Skookum1 19:37, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I just started an annotated List of law enforcement agencies in British Columbia, which can be expanded to include the feds (besides the Mounties). I did add BC Sheriffs, and linked it to a quite extensive history website, from a book written by a retired Sheriff. Technically, Sheriffs are "law enforcement," but not police (though the original London police were essentially officers of the court. As for individuals, Category:Canadian police officers is still pretty underpopulated, so it's probably premature to start a category for local policeman officers. bobanny 21:54, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Then there's the police in classical Athens - Thracian slaves, armed to the teeth, well-taken care of, with no local/family loyalties except to the Assembly....Skookum1 04:28, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Dissolution?
Anyone want to include reasons why it was dissolved, when the OPP and SQ continued? - TheMightyQuill 07:57, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Costs, and corruption (so I've heard); it was cheaper to engage the RCMP, and BC being the cost-conscious place it is/was it "made political sense".Skookum1 (talk) 16:13, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

First constable
Re this:
 * ''At the time of his appointment, there was only one appointed constable in the northern part of the colony, theoretically patrolling 360,000 square miles by himself.

I think that was Francis Jones Barnard, although maybe his appointment was after Brew's appointment, I'm not sure; "the northern part of the colony" is a stretch, and "northern" is a Lower Mainland perspective when it's the Cariboo that's being talked about (even the Omineca is "Central Interior" rather than "Northern BC".Skookum1 (talk) 16:13, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The term "the Interior" or "the Interior of the colony" should probably be supplanted for "the northern part of the Colony".Skookum1 (talk) 16:14, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It should also be noted that the 360,000 sq km figure apparently refers to today's boundaries; before Brew's appointment the QCI, Stikine Territory and Peace River Block/Northeastern BC had not yet been added to the colony; I don't know what the reduced-area figure would be. On the other hand, at the time BC also was considered (by its officials) to include the areas lost to the US as a result of the Alaska purchase and subsequent boundary settlement, i.e., so the figure could/should be adjusted to reckon with that (look on Talk:Alaska boundary dispute for the map with the "green line" claimed by BC).Skookum1 (talk) 16:33, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Figure adjusted for accuracy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bloomenhagens (talk • contribs) 07:05, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I've removed it entirely, as it's not in the cited work (the Buddenhagen pdf) and isn't a realistic statement; colonial life was "linear", i.e. along the Cariboo Road and Brigade Trail etc; even today nobody patrols the heights of the mountains and icefields; also the presmise that there was only one constable is very wrong; various native chiefs had already become magistrates, ergo in colonial terms also constables, and even by the time of Brew's appointment there were non-natives like Barnard who had been appointed constables and/or Gold Commissioners.Skookum1 (talk) 14:01, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Do you have a source for First Nations appointed as Magistrates? Constable is not equal to magistrate, magistrate is a constable's superior. See Frederick Hatch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.54.135.57 (talk) 17:01, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Re: Linear colonial life. Not sure I follow your argument here. Linear in terms of colonial settlment? Fur trade had penetrated most of BC by the gold rush, but yes linear along brigade routes. Consider though fur trade posts are spread throughout BC, more like a web, not linear. See Cole Harris "Resettlement of BC" for maps or, "Making Native Space." Coastal colonial is far from linear, but could follow as far as the coast and waterways can be considered "linear." I make the point becasue it seems that you are suggesting colonialism followed the roads, but roads followed colonialism and gold rushes. And today the RCMP do patrol the 'backwoods' ie Marijuana fields. Who is Barnard? There is no mention of policing in the linked page or in the BC Archives.(Bloomenhagens (talk) 17:31, 28 April 2012 (UTC))

1930s pic
The caption says "special constables" - are those BCPP uniforms, or Pinkerton's?Skookum1 (talk) 16:13, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * BCPP. Pinkerton-type detective agencies were used for spies in the '30s, but not for front-line policing/strikebreaking in Vancouver, and not by public police forces. bobanny (talk) 21:20, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * OK, just checking - they were used in the Royal Oak strikebreaking in Yellowknife.....Skookum1 (talk) 04:29, 21 October 2008 (UTC).

By the 1930s Pinkertons was on the way out. Pinkertons very active from 1880s to 1930s. But the photo is of Specials, BCPP got uniforms in 1923 with major re-organisation of the force.(Bloomenhagens (talk) 16:00, 28 April 2012 (UTC))

pre-Great War constables
Noticed this:
 * ''Police were engaged from within local communities, as per Brew's original policy on this matter, based on his experience in Ireland, and until 1923 they were plainclothes and had no uniform.

They were often prominent as ranchers or mine owners, often they were also teh gold commissioner or government agent or otherwise appointed from the local stock e.g. Francis Jones Barnard. Also there's the deputizations in many cases, particularly during the Chilcotin War but also during the Wild McLean Boys and Bill Miner episodes and so on.....WEren't the troops sent to the Boer War actually BCPP constables, gtiven uniforms for h efirst time? Anyway there's lots more in the early history that could be added, hard to cite and scattered all over the place....the Voltigeur stuff I added is in Hauka's "New McGowqana's War" which also reminds me of the pre-aBrew deputization of Americans by th JoPs in Yale and Hill's Bar, i.e .Americans were sometimes deputized. The comissioned officers were typically Anglo-Irish imports brought in by Brew personally......is there a "consatbles of the BCPP " cate yet? I'll look in the subcats....Skookum1 (talk) 04:29, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Yale and Hill's Bar, ie Ned McGowan's War there are no constables or "deputies" (deputies don't exist in British law enforcement, we call them "specials" hence they are often confused with strike breakers as this is the more colloquial term in the US). In Ned McGowan's War there were only Magistrates that had been hastily appointed by Douglas largely to solve disputes over mining claims and disputes under ₤50. Magistrates are peculiarly colonial, they theoretically have the power of all three branches of government in early colonial times from BC to Australia. Magistrates, Stipendairy Magoistrates and Gold Commissioners are the top of the policing chain (what you are referring to as "comissioned officers") in BC until about the 1890s. See Tina Loo's PhD thesis, Frederick Hatch's thesis and David Farr's thesis for more complete treatments of these topics.(Bloomenhagens (talk) 20:54, 28 April 2012 (UTC))

Emblem Issue
The BCPP emblem needs a grammar fix it reads Proviincial it should read Provincial. @Jhawk09 PeterAKer 06:48, 14 February 2024 (UTC)