Talk:Broad-billed parrot

Mauritius Grey Parrot
This section should be split from the article as this species referred to Psittacula bensoni (synonym Lophopsittacus bensoni /Thirioux's Grey Parrot) see Cheke/Hume: Lost Land of the Dodo (2008) and Hume: Reappraisel of the Parrots (2007) for reference --Melly42 (talk) 12:01, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Split declined. Both birds are Lophopsittacus, both are extinct, and there is some uncertainty about if they are related. This seems the most appropriate place to keep the information.  SilkTork  *YES! 10:29, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
 * It is now split. SilkTork seems to have misunderstood the request. FunkMonk (talk) 19:58, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Copy edit, November 2012

 * Identification and etymology: "They appear in reports published in 1601, which also contain the first illustration of the bird, along with the Dodo." We can improve this sentence. What do the 1601-published reports have about the Dodo: the first description? a description but not the first? the first illustration? an illustration but not the first? --Stfg (talk) 12:00, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Identification and etymology: I've invited clarification of "some writers continued[Clarify] to argue that the "Indian Raven" was a hornbill" because it would be good, if possible, to state when this argument was finally abandoned, and to identify any recent writers who asserted this. --Stfg (talk) 12:00, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Description: "The difference between male and female skulls is the largest among parrots" is ambiguous. Does it mean that parrots exhibit the largest difference between M&F skulls, or that the Broad-billed exhibit a larger difference than other parrots do? --Stfg (talk) 14:30, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Behaviour and ecology: "... the sexes have specialised reproductive roles". Umm, yeah! I assume you mean something other than the obvious? --Stfg (talk) 15:17, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I'll fix those things now... FunkMonk (talk) 08:41, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Changing "A 2012 genetic study, however, shows that the Mascarene Parrot is nested among the subspecies of the Lesser Vasa Parrot" into "... grouped within ..." doesn't really clarify it. Does the study show that it's one of the subspecies (in which case it would be best to say simply that), or does the nested among/grouped within idea express some more interesting relationship (in which case it needs a clearer description). --Stfg (talk) 12:24, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
 * It would imply it was a species or subspecies within this group, but I'm not sure if the sources state that specifically. I'll have a look. FunkMonk (talk) 13:25, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
 * "within this group" is very ambiguous -- what group? Today's new wording, "closely related to the subspecies of the Lesser Vasa Parrot", doesn't really add up -- why mention subspecies? If it actually is a subspecies of the LVP, we can say so and we don't need "closely related to"; if it isn't, then even if it's closely related to the species, we don't need the false precision of mentioning subspecies. "closely related to" is pretty vague anyway; how close is close? What precisely does the source say? Ideally, what words does it use? --Stfg (talk) 11:17, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll try to fix that one soon, the paper is pretty vague and it seems many have taken issue with it. I will take care of the two maintenance tags first. This article can't get to FAC until the Mauritius Blue Pigeon is promoted anyway, as far as I understand... FunkMonk (talk) 13:35, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

The genetic study says, and I quote: "The extinct M. mascarinus groups within Coracopsis rather than with Psittacula to which it has sometimes been referred (phylogenetic analysis without the constraints still shows this pattern). Specifically, this taxon groups with the lesser vasa parrots, C. nigra. Within this clade the nominate C. n. nigra appears to be a recent speciation, with Coracopsis nigra barklyi, M. mascarinus and Coracopsis nigra sibilans all representing earlier divergences." Later it says this grouping is weakly supported, so I would be very cautious with any specific wording in the article, which is not in the paper. What do you think? FunkMonk (talk) 17:05, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Apologies, when you posted that I was doing another copy edit and overlooked it. I agree with your caution. The problem may perhaps lie in the words "the subspecies of", especially as the source is written in cladistic rather than Linnaean terms. If you were just to say "most closely related to the Lesser Vasa Parrot", it would be clearer, I think. --Stfg (talk) 19:44, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Alright, no problem, will do! FunkMonk (talk) 19:48, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Caption
I understand the sources have to be followed, but perhaps it's useful to point out that the caption in the 1601 Dutch woodcut does not read "Is a bird which we called the Indian Crow, more than twice as big as the parroquets, of two or three colours" but "A bird that we called the Indian Raven, being as large as a parrot, of double colour". To a Dutch reader of the time it would be obvious that the "double colour" would not refer to two hues in the same individual, but to two plumages, indicating either sexual dimorphism or a nuptial plumage.--MWAK (talk) 07:03, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Interesting, sadly the source don't mention this, so not sure how to deal with it... I can see if the translation in Strickland & Melville 1848 is different... FunkMonk (talk) 07:20, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
 * For some reason, Strickland only seems to present a French translation: "5. Est un oiseau de nous nomme le Corbeau Indien,^ ayant la grandeur plus d' une fois que les Parroquets, de double et triple couleur." FunkMonk (talk) 14:51, 14 July 2014 (UTC)


 * The same source mentions that French, Dutch and German editions were published at the same time. The French text suggests that there were two plumages, one in a two-colour scheme, the other with three colours. The duederley in the Dutch text however, a spelling variant of Low Saxon deuderley, and the equivalent of modern (Low Franconian) Dutch tweeërlei, means "of two types" and seems to refer only to different plumages. It would be interesting to find out what the German text is and in which language the original notes were made. That might also give an indication what was the real size estimate.--MWAK (talk) 07:03, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
 * "Double colour" cold not mean "bicoloured"? FunkMonk (talk) 16:29, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

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WP:URFA/2020
MOS:WAW to italics on each instance of "referred to them as ..." ? No need to get back to me, marking Satisfactory, unwatching, Sandy Georgia (Talk)  18:12, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
 * You mean for example like "Indian ravens"? Sorry to ping you,, but just wanted to be sure! FunkMonk (talk) 19:51, 15 December 2020 (UTC) FunkMonk (talk) 19:51, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
 * yes, things like that (there are several) ... it is sometimes unclear to me when to employ "words as words", so I left that decision to you. Best, Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  19:53, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I'll be on the lookout! FunkMonk (talk) 19:57, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Tracking of articles with short footnotes to inline citations
I have placed a notice (Note short footnote style 3 in use at the start of this talk page following other notices. This template provides information to editors perhaps unfamiliar with this article’s style of when to use or not use short footnotes versus full citations, and aids citation editors helping maintain consistent use of this style to know what method citations require adjustment.

Per a conversation with FunkMonk, as of the date of this post I have upgraded his inline plain text short footnotes to this style, and hovering the mouse over short references will display the full citaiton. (Behavior on mobile devices currently is a jump to the full citation). J JMesserly (talk) 21:29, 19 March 2023 (UTC)