Talk:Brotherhood of Mutants

The L Word
Mystique and Destiny WERE lovers; they were always written as lovers by Chris Claremont. It was just never outright stated that they were lovers because Jim Shooter had a "no gay characters" policy at Marvel during the 1980s.

Only in the most recent years, in X-Men Forever and Xtreme X-Men, has Marvel relaxed enough to let writers outright state what was quite apparent subtextwise, that Destiny and Mystique were lovers. [[BakerBaker]


 * Being that it was never outright stated or even implied in past years, is reason enough not to mention it. It is sort of like the recent outing of one of the "Harry Potter" characters for no apparent reason by the book's author.

MPA 17:59, 12 November 2007 (UTC)


 * ...except that Destiny and Mystique were outed inside the script of the comics, and it was strongly implied in past years. Nobody knew Dumbledore was gay until the series was over, and (at least in the first few books) there was no implication that he might be gay. It's not really a valid comparison. Claremont actually has one character mention that Destiny is Mystique's leman, which I guess went unnoticed by the gay police because the word is so obscure. (Check Uncanny X-Men #265 if you don't believe me.) There's also some pretty blatant implications in
 * Uncanny X-Men #177 - A comfort scene. Destiny refers to Mystique as "my Raven".
 * Marvel Fanfare #40 - Mystique thinks about her relationship with Destiny, and the two talk about it. It's pretty vague (they "care" about each other, that sort of thing), but Mystique explictly mentions that Irene is "as beautiful today as when first [they] met". They then proceed to waltz together, Mystique in the form of an oldish man.
 * IIRC, all three comics were published late 80s/early 90s. --64.180.207.196 (talk) 03:42, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Current status
The current Superteambox lists status as active but that there are no members. That seems a pseudo-contradiction at best.

BakerBaker: There are no active incarnation of the Brotherhood at the moment, hence the lack of members.

Ultimate Brotherhood
What about a listing of the members of the Ultimate universe version, as well some more details about them?

- Do we need this? It just clutters up the page.--DrBat 01:46, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Original lineup

 * Magneto. Founder in Uncanny X-Men #4 (March, 1964).
 * Astra. Retconned as the first recruit. Resigned prior to their first mission.
 * Toad (served in several later incarnations). Second recruit in Uncanny X-Men #4 (March, 1964).
 * Quicksilver. Third recruit, alongside the Scarlet Witch, in Uncanny X-Men #4 (March, 1964).
 * Scarlet Witch. Fourth recruit, alongside Quicksilver, in Uncanny X-Men #4 (March, 1964).
 * Mastermind. First seen as a member in Uncanny X-Men #4 (March, 1964).
 * Blob (served in several later incarnations). Joined in Amazing Adventures vol. 2 #12 (May, 1972).
 * Unus the Untouchable. Joined in Amazing Adventures vol. 2 #12 (May, 1972).
 * Lorelei. Joined in ''Defenders vol. 1 #15 (September, 1974).
 * Vanisher. Associate member in Champions of Los Angeles #17 (January, 1978).

Second lineup
Founded by Magneto in Captain America Annual #4 (1977). Later known as the Mutant Force and the Resistants.


 * Burner (Byron Calley). Later changed codename to "Crucible".
 * Lifter (Ned Lathrop). Later chanded codename to "Meteorite".
 * Peeper (Peter Quinn). Later changed codename to "Occult".
 * Shocker (Randall Darby). Later changed codename to "Paralyzer".
 * Slither (Aaron Salomon).
 * Quill. Joined in Captain America vol. 1 #343 (July, 1988).
 * Mist Mistress. Joined in Captain America vol. 1 #346 (October, 1988).
 * Mentallo (Marvin Flumm). Joined in Captain America vol. 1 #346 (October, 1988) under the codename "Think Tank".
 * Rust. Joined in Captain America vol. 1 #350 (February, 1989).

Third lineup
First appeared in Uncanny X-Men #141 (January, 1981). Later became known as Freedom Force). Included the veteran member Blob.


 * Mystique (served in several later incarnations). Co-founder and leader.
 * Destiny. Co-founder and second-in-command.
 * Avalanche (served in several later incarnations). Co-founder.
 * Pyro. Co-founder.
 * Rogue. Joined in Avengers Annual #10 (1981). Later defected to the X-Men.
 * Spiral (first non mutant member of Freedom Force). Joined in Uncanny X-Men #199 (November, 1985).
 * Spider-Woman (second non mutant member of Freedom Force). Joined in Uncanny X-Men #206 (June, 1986).
 * Crimson Commando (third non mutant member of Freedom Force). Joined in Uncanny X-Men #223 (November, 1987).
 * Stonewall (fourth non mutant member of Freedom Force). Joined in Uncanny X-Men #223 (November, 1987).
 * Super Sabre (fifth non mutant member of Freedom Force). Joined in Uncanny X-Men #223 (November, 1987).

Fourth lineup
Founded in X-Force #5 (December, 1991. Included veteran members Blob, Pyro and Toad.


 * Phantazia.
 * Sauron.

Fifth lineup
Founded in X-Factor #112 (July, 1995).


 * Dark Beast. Founder and leader.
 * Fatale. First recruit.
 * Random. Associate member in X-Factor #114 (September, 1995).
 * Havok. Defector from X-Factor. Joined in X-Factor #125 (August, 1996). Final leader of this incarnation.
 * Ever. Joined in Uncanny X-Men #339 (December, 1996).
 * X-Man. Joined in X-Man #26 (April, 1997).
 * Aurora. Joined in X-Man #27 (May, 1997).

Sixth lineup
Founded in Uncanny X-Men #363 (January, 1999). Included veteran members Blob and Toad. Following the departure of Professor X they became mercenaries and were hired by Mystique.


 * Professor X. Founder and first leader of this incarnation.
 * Mimic. Co-founder.
 * Post. Co-founder.

Seventh lineup
Founded in X-Men #106 (November, 2000). Included veteran members Avalanche, Blob, Mystique, Post and Toad.


 * Crimson Commando II. A female successor to the original. (Chris Claremont forgot to name her in the issue but did so in an interview). Co-founder.
 * Sabre. A successor to former member Super Sabre. Co-founder.
 * Sabretooth. Joined in Uncanny X-Men #388 (December, 2000; also member of ninth line-up).
 * Mastermind II. A daughter of the original. Joined in Cable #87 (January, 2001).

Eighth lineup
Founded in New X-Men vol. 1 #146 (October, 2003). Included the veteran member Toad.


 * Magneto. Co-founder and leader; later retconned as being Xorn
 * Basilisk VI.
 * Beak. Co-founder.
 * Ernst. Co-founder.
 * Esme of the Stepford Cuckoos. Co-founder.
 * Martha Johansson. Co-founder.
 * Angel Salvatore. Co-founder.

Ninth lineup
Founded in X-Men #161 (November, 2004). Included veteran members Avalanche and Sabretooth.


 * Exodus. Leader and co-founder of this group.
 * Black Tom Cassidy. Co-founder.
 * Juggernaut (mole working for X-Men). Co-founder.
 * Mammomax. Co-founder.
 * Nocturne (mole working for X-Men). Co-founder.

Suggest merge of List of Brotherhood of Mutants members into Brotherhood of Evil Mutants
Suggest merge of List of Brotherhood of Mutants members into Brotherhood of Evil Mutants. The main article is much better than the list article, which is just a table. --John Nagle 01:45, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

how do i nominate this article as a good one?
I was very impressed by the information available in this article. How can I nominate it as a good article? --Mr Vain 19:02, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I decided not to nominate this article after all because I noticed that in the manual of style (writing about fiction) WP:WAF, it says that fiction needs verifiable 3rd party citations. A large portion of the article does rely on the issues in question as citation and I don't see any citation of other works in the article itself.  I really do enjoy this article, but I just don't think it would be accepted as a good article per wikipedia guidelines.  Just thought you would want to know why I didn't nominate it. --Mr Vain 15:44, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Name
I like the fact that this article goes on to mention that many authors are trying to move the Brotherhood's name away from having the word evil in it because the members don't see themselves as evil. Perhaps it should mention that even Stan Lee regrets the fact that he named them with evil, and goes on to say that to state that even he can make a mistake. This was contained in a limited edition comic that came with certain editions of X-men: The Last Stand.

I think it gets even better than that: I'm reading the Marvel Masterworks: X-Men volumes, and I believe the team doesn't refer to itself as 'The BROTHERHOOD of Evil Mutants'. The X-Men call them 'the Evil Mutants' or 'Magneto's Evil Mutants'. 'The Brotherhood of Evil Mutants' is the title of Uncanny X-Men issue 4, and when the team garnered a reputation as a respectable band of supervillains, the name of the issue was remembered, and the team was named 'BROTHERHOOD of Evil Mutants'. I'm guessing the name first appeared somewhere between Magneto's defeat in Avengers #53 and his fiasco with Mutant Alpha. But I'm no expert. 62.163.11.134 13:34, 24 June 2007 (UTC)


 * No, in, like, Uncanny X-Men #27 or something, Quicksilver says: 'The X-Men... well do I remember our epic battles against them when we were still unwilling pawns of Magneto and his Brotherhood.' So, a Brotherhood reference before Avengers #53. 194.171.56.2 15:24, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

The Brotherhood
How about collecting up all the minor characters from The Brotherhood limited series and putting them all together in one article? It seems like a waste to have each one or two sentence summary on its own page. Noclevername 01:22, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

The Brotherhood (comic)
This stub should probably be merged here unless it's expanded. I don't edit comics. PrimeHunter 14:13, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

The Brotherhood=Egypt's Brotherhood?
It is quite possible that Stan Lee equated and used the name of these evil mutants as a passive aggressive stance against the enemies of Israel. Stan is jewish by the way. The entire premise of the Xmen is a metaphor for the oppressed Jews against the (NAZIs) who discriminate against them and the Evil Mutant (Arabs) who want to kill them.MPA 17:57, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Brotherhoodkrby.png
Image:Brotherhoodkrby.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 04:23, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Evil Mutants.jpg
Image:Evil Mutants.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 20:34, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Dark Beast's Brothrhood
Why is the section titled Dark Beast's brotherhood if Havok led this. I do not have the issues, so I'm just pointing out something I was confused by. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.4.180.124 (talk) 02:23, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Comics B-Class Assesment required
This article needs the B-Class checklist filled in to remain a B-Class article for the Comics WikiProject. If the checklist is not filled in by 7th August this article will be re-assessed as C-Class. The checklist should be filled out referencing the guidance given at Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Assessment/B-Class criteria. For further details please contact the Comics WikiProject. Comics-awb (talk) 15:56, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

C-Class rated for Comics Project
As this B-Class article has yet to receive a review, it has been rated as C-Class. If you disagree and would like to request an assesment, please visit WikiProject_Comics/Assessment and list the article. Hiding T 14:59, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Unknown Brotherhood Member/s
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.147.29.187 (talk) 07:23, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Merge "Brotherhood of Mutants (X-Men (TV series)" into this article?
It seems unlikely that the Brotherhood of Mutants (X-Men (TV series)) article will become more fleshed out. I suggest merging it here. --GentlemanGhost (talk) 01:26, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
 * The first paragraph of the Brotherhood of Mutants (X-Men (TV series)) article, seems to be identical to the information located at Brotherhood of Mutants and List of X-Men: The Animated Series characters. I think that the information in the TV series article would be better integrated into the character descriptions at List of X-Men: The Animated Series characters. Fortdj33 (talk) 13:14, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Good idea. Since there were no other opinions offered, that's what I have done. --GentlemanGhost (talk) 19:04, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 10:24, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Amazing Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows
"In Amazing Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows, the Brotherhood of Mutants consists of Magneto, Blob, Toad, Mist Mistress, Jubilee, and an unnamed mutant that resembles Crucible. " I haven't read this, but given that this is a BoM variant and that Mist Mistress is a member, I wonder if this is supposed to refer to Crucible instead of the Enclave operative it is currently linked to. Figured I'd bring my questions here so that someone who HAS read the thing can look into it. --Khajidha (talk) 22:54, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Nevermind. Did some checking around and found images, that's definitely not based on Burner/Crucible. --Khajidha (talk) 23:00, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

Other versions
Is the "Other versions" section just random? The entries aren't in chronological order or alphabetical order or any other order I can figure out. --Khajidha (talk) 15:43, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Changed it to alphabetical.--Khajidha (talk) 13:09, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

's First Brotherhood, Second Brotherhood, etc
How are we distinguishing these? Historically Marvel has called the version of the Brotherhood that became Mutant Force (and, later, the Resistance) Magneto's second Brotherhood. However, we seem to have rolled this into the same incarnation as the one with Scarlet Witch, Toad, etc. Aside from Magneto there is no overlap in membership. The groups labelled Mystique's Second and Third Brotherhoods have a large overlap in membership, but seem to be counted separately for reasons that aren't made clear. (Maybe because of the intervening existence of the Brotherhood from the comic of the same name? But that one was rarely talked about in relation to the X-Men books in general.) And the groups labelled Magneto's Second and Third Brotherhoods occur so close in time with so little activity from the first, that I'm not sure if these are truly separate teams or a single team that quickly replaced many members. And the incarnations as given on the List of Brotherhood of Mutants members page doesn't match the lineups given here. --Khajidha (talk) 18:24, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
 * PS - "Magneto's Third Brotherhood" (as listed here) is apparently actually "Joseph's Second Brotherhood", as it was organized by a disguised Joseph (see Uncanny X-Men v5 n16). --Khajidha (talk) 15:52, 4 September 2019 (UTC)