Talk:Bus rapid transit in New Jersey

Cool article
Great information here. Excellent research. Numerous references. Impressive project.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 02:18, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

References for possible inclusion in article
If interested, click on the "show"; they may be helpful; remember to delete the "quote" portions of the references if including it in the article.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 15:37, 17 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Wow, thanks. Will sort thru and see if/how this can be incoporated Djflem (talk) 06:45, 18 May 2012 (UTC)



Suggestion for possible lede sentences

 * Bus rapid transit in New Jersey describes activity to bring bus rapid transit to heavily trafficked corridors in the Garden State. Unlike traditional bus lines, bus rapid transit is often characterized by dedicated lanes, buses which load from both front and back, shorter commuting times, limited stops focusing on only the busiest points, prepaid tickets, communication between riders and schedulers using the Internet, coordination between buses and traffic signals for faster movement, and comfortable protected stations to attract more riders. The idea is to streamline carless transportation in urban areas and reduce traffic congestion, and it is part of a growing worldwide effort as a cost-saving alternative to rail transportation.

Just an idea (in case most people don't know what BRT systems are). --Tomwsulcer (talk) 15:36, 17 May 2012 (UTC)--Tomwsulcer (talk) 15:40, 17 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the input. Would like to pick up on this and incorporate somehow. I've tried to keep the lede specific to NJ and describe BRT in general in another paragraph, since BRT is not not specific to the state. Probably a one sentence description of BRT, NJTs choice to use (and why) in the opening would be useful.Djflem (talk) 06:43, 18 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Well you're doing a great job with this article. I didn't know what Bus rapid transit was before I came upon your article -- like how it differed from regular buses and such -- might be helpful to introduce the topic for people like me who are unfamiliar.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 12:20, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Problems with the lede paragraph
The lede paragraph should describe what "Bus rapid transit in New Jersey" -- the subject of the article -- is. What is it? At this writing, the lede sentence assumes the reader knows what BRT is, and launches into a specific aspect of it -- that it is in the early stages of development. This is too specific. It is important for readers to get up to speed on the topic first. Here is the lede paragraph at present:--Tomwsulcer (talk) 11:43, 9 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Bus rapid transit in New Jersey is in the early stages of development, with one system serving Greater Newark. There are also rush-hour exclusive bus lanes (XBL) and bus bypass shoulders (BBS) in use. Under the banner Next Generation Bus[1][2] New Jersey Transit (NJT), the New Jersey Department of Transportation (NJDOT), and the metropolitan planning organizations of New Jersey (MPO) which recommend and authorize transportation projects are undertaking the creation of several additional bus rapid transit (BRT) and BBS systems in the state. In 2011, NJT announced that it would equip its entire bus fleet with devices for real-time locating, thus creating the basis for "next bus" scheduling information at bus shelters.


 * While I understand your concern the lede is not the place to explain what BRT is, but to address the title of the of the piece, which discusses the application of BRT in NJ, which is specific. It does indeed assume that the reader knows something about BRT, just as any article assumes the reader is somewhat oriented to a subject. (Not every piece about a Broadway show or a type of telephone explains what a Broadway show or a telephone is. An article about a breed of dog doesn't explain the concept dog. If one doesn't know what a Broadway show, telephone or dog is, they need to first learn about it elsewhere.) I have linked the first words of the article, bus rapid transit, so that whomever might need to  "get up to speed"  can link there. (Another article, Wind power in New Jersey, is handled in the same way.) Generally, a lede is meant to mention topics that will be discussed in the article, with subsections going into detail. There is a paragraph in the overview section which concisely describes BRT, and I believe that is the appropriate place, so the opening remains balanced and fufills its primary function as an introduction. It ends with a general statement that that BRT is increasingly popular alternative to rail as a mass transit alternative being tested in NJ. Thoughts? Djflem (talk) 08:23, 10 June 2012 (UTC)


 * I disagree. The lead (or lede) paragraph should state: what is it? Why is it notable? The first sentence goes way too fast into a specific about the topic. Assuming readers understand already what bus rapid transit is -- well -- that's extremely problematic -- if readers already know what bus rapid transit is, then why are they reading this article? The idea of Wikipedia is to inform them: what is it? Why is it notable? Tell them. See style guide about the lead paragraph. I read quite a bit and consider myself well-informed; still, when I came upon this article, I did not understand what Bus rapid transit was about. The effect is to turn off your readers. While linking is a good idea, to assume that readers will click on links (most don't, btw) to find out, and then come back to your article -- well, you are more likely to lose most of your readers here; they'll go elsewhere, then forget, and go on to something else. Most of them will be confused. They'll click elsewhere. Trust me; if you would like to build readership, and make this article even better, rework the lede as I suggest. And reasons the article is notable: promises to inexpensively address a growing problem of traffic congestion; possible environmental benefits; may help travelers get places more quickly, etc etc. Another thing -- using the parentheses to show the abbreviation -- such as Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) -- the idea is you do it once, initially, and then from then on, use the initials. Still, this format is clumsy, and asks readers to work harder (ie learn a new set of initials). My advice would be to use the initials only when necessary, and keep repeating the longer format, except when the term is clearly used quite often and is easily memorable.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 13:44, 10 June 2012 (UTC)--Tomwsulcer (talk) 13:45, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Funny, I was just going to complain that the article goes into way too much definitional detail about bus rapid transit. You do know, Tom, that articles are linked for a reason, and one of those reasons is to provide background information on general concepts so that more specific articles such as this one don't have to spend a great deal of space being redundant. I heartily advocate trimming out some of the definitional material. I also think the article could use some trimming out of material that belongs better elsewhere, such as the section on the Lincoln Tunnel XBL. It is a better fit for the Lincoln Tunnel article, as it's specifically about that tunnel and isn't really BRT. oknazevad (talk) 17:28, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

XBL ≠ BRT
As I just alluded to in my above comment, the Lincoln Tunnel XBL does not constitute BRT according to the definition used in this article. It is not a single dedicated limited stop bus service but a facility used by every single bus that goes through the Lincoln Tunnel during rush hours. The material doesn't really belong here, but in the appropriate section of the Lincoln Tunnel article. I'm not sure about the GWB stuff either; it's just a bus stop, nothing more. oknazevad (talk) 17:44, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 one external links on Bus rapid transit in New Jersey. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added tag to http://www.njtpa.org/plan/Element/Transit/documents/GNBABRT-SummaryReport-Final-May2008.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120502131019/http://policy.rutgers.edu/vtc/tod/newsletter/vol4-num1/article_BTOD.html to http://policy.rutgers.edu/vtc/tod/newsletter/vol4-num1/article_BTOD.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111009101318/http://apps.njtpa.org/consultant/Consultant/Files/JC%20Route%20440.pdf to http://apps.njtpa.org/consultant/Consultant/Files/JC%20Route%20440.pdf

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 05:35, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 5 external links on Bus rapid transit in New Jersey. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://archive.is/20130415135833/http://www.njtpa.org/Plan/Studies/next_gen_brt_study.aspx to http://www.njtpa.org/Plan/Studies/next_gen_brt_study.aspx
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120320065519/http://co.middlesex.nj.us/awts/communityshuttle.asp to http://www.co.middlesex.nj.us/awts/communityshuttle.asp
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130115201222/http://www.njtpa.org/plan/Studies/documents/HudsonCountyBusCirculationStudyFinalReport2007.pdf to http://www.njtpa.org/plan/Studies/documents/HudsonCountyBusCirculationStudyFinalReport2007.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111215022723/http://www.arch.columbia.edu/files/gsapp/imceshared/sy2065/DG-101001-3_Jersey_City_Bus_Study_Body.pdf to http://www.arch.columbia.edu/files/gsapp/imceshared/sy2065/DG-101001-3_Jersey_City_Bus_Study_Body.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101110215531/http://www.njtpa.org/Plan/Studies/ElizabethDowntownMulti-ModalIntegrationStudy.aspx to http://www.njtpa.org/Plan/Studies/ElizabethDowntownMulti-ModalIntegrationStudy.aspx

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 21:25, 27 July 2017 (UTC)