Talk:Cadiz Masonic Lodge No. 121 F. and A.M.

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Requested move 10 April 2018[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the page as proposed at this time, per the discussion below. Please remember to remain civil when opposing move requests. If this is to be revisited in the future, please consider incorporating new evidence of common usage since the change. Dekimasuよ! 01:32, 17 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]


Cadiz Masonic Lodge No. 121 F. and A.M. → Trigg County Museum – Potentially ambiguous. Cadiz Masonic Lodge No. 121 F. and A.M. is a local chapter of the Freemasons, but has moved to a new building located in a different part in the town (see Grand Lodge of Kentucky lodge locator page). The historic building where the lodge used to meet has been sold, and now houses the above named Museum (see: facebook page for the museum). Unfortunately, the NRHP continues to list the building under its previous name. Blueboar (talk) 11:32, 10 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

What is asserted to be a Facebook page for the museum is misconstrued; that is a page of Trigg County Historical Society which apparently meets elsewhere. Google search on "Twigg County Museum" reports nothing. --Doncram (talk) 16:51, 10 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose move. It is at its historical and common name for the building, which is notable for being a Masonic Lodge from 1854 for a long time. I know with more specific knowledge in other cases that the Masonic Lodge type name is what is continued to be used, rather than the name of a later tenant in the Masonic building, and that the move nominator is biased towards minimizing/obliterating Masonic association. There is a kneejerk obsession a) to change from "Masonic Lodge" phrase because they want to emphasize that in their view "Lodge" is a chapter not a building, no matter that contrasts to actual usage, and b) they particularly wish to minimize/dismiss Masonic-ness of buildings where there no current Masons meet. But this is not a place to right great wrongs, and notability is not temporary. For example, the move nominator moved the Montrose Masonic Temple, Lodge No. 63 to Adams Vacuum & Sewing building with edit summary " using alternative name... the lodge no longer meets in the building", when the nominator had no knowledge of actual usage. In fact the local town has historic placard about the "Montrose Masonic Temple, Lodge No. 63", and the building has that chiseled into it, and that is what the place is called, and the temporary "Adams Vacuum" is just a store relocated to a different city in the county. There does exist a 2014 photo showing "Adams Vacuum" sign on the storefront beneath, but the temporary business and its temporary sign were gone by 2016 or 2017, while "Masonic Temple" is permanently inscribed into the building's parapet.
This too is listed and known as a Masonic Lodge. There is no "potential ambiguity" here; the local Masonic chapter if it still exists and goes by that name is not going to have a separate Wikipedia article (nor does the nominator want that). Anything about it is to be covered in this article, and would not properly be covered in a "Twigg County Museum" article. About the suggested name, I suspect it does not continue to exist as a local history museum, as I am not easily finding anything in Google. The building continues, and is widely notable under its name. It is listed in Wikipedia because of its Masonic historic association. --Doncram (talk) 16:24, 10 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
This was NRHP-listed in 1978 and documents of course call it Masonic Lodge throughout, at a time the building was used as a senior citizen community center. Then 20 years later in 1998 it is included in a larger historic district, whose nomination uses the phrase "Masonic Lodge" or "Cadiz Masonic Lodge" 13 times. I see no usage of "Twigg County Museum" phrase; it is charitable of us to mention that phrase as an alternative in the article, based on small sign in one 2014 photo. --Doncram (talk) 16:35, 10 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The problem in this case is that there is now another DIFFERENT building (the lodge’s current building) named “Cadiz Masonic Lodge No. 121, F&AM” (It has a very large sign proclaiming it so... see the picture on Grand Lodge’s website). The only signage on the older building now relates to the county museum. We seem to now have two buildings in the same town that go by the same name. Confusing. Imagine Pan American Airways, instead of going bankrupt had simply sold their historic PanAm Building in New York City (now commonly called the Met Life Building) and built a new, different, "PanAm Building". Blueboar (talk) 20:13, 10 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Not confusing. Manufactured issue. Only the historic building is individually notable. There will only ever be one Wikipedia article. The other building can be mentioned in the existing article. If, absurdly, the other building was worth a separate article, the naming could be differentiated perhaps with parenthetical phrase "(1845 building)" vs. "(2007 building)" or similar. --Doncram (talk) 01:23, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
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