Talk:Carlos Zambrano

POV
It's not a bad article but it seems to be written from one person's own point of view. A more enecyclopedic, third person style would hugely improve the article. Mglovesfun 23:06, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

I made some slight changes in the 2007 season section. I basically took out a few useless lines. It said "Oddly enough the Milwaukee Brewers were leading the central rather than the Cubs or the Reds." I just thought that didn't fit since way more sports writers picked the Brewers to win the central than picked the Cubs or Reds. Although many picked the Cardinals too, I think the "oddly enough" and the reference to the Reds and Cubs made the statement sound misinformed. JIJAWM 20:18, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
 * The article needs an overhaul, badly. References to the Cubs and to Zambrano throughout the article are heavily biased in favor of him.  There is little-to-no mention of his temper (including a fight with former teammate Michael Barrett while he was still the club), and weasel words like "unfortunately" are used before any situation in which Zambrano or the Cubs faired poorly.  It needs a heavy POV change.  Good rule of thumb: if you or I can read something written in this article and say "I disagree with that", while not being wrong in saying so, it does not belong.President David Palmer 19:01, 17 August 2007 (UTC)


 * The fights with Barrett could be expanded with info from the Michael Barrett article, which was at one time a GA candidate. Chubbles 19:03, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Picture
The main page photo is terrible. Carlos is barely even visible.--68.78.47.144 19:11, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Never mind; someone got rid of it.

Huuuuuge
This article is freaking huge...it just looks like one fan is just adding every little thing he can...do we REALLY need this all? I mean yeah he's a good pitcher but he's got a bigger article than some hall of famers...it's just weird. And there seems to be a lot of unnecessary stuff. ChopAtwa 01:19, 2 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree this is way to long.--E tac 09:09, 2 June 2007 (UTC)


 * More than half of the stuff did not even meet Wikiepdia's policies for WP:A, WP:NOR, or WP:RS. Most of the needless things were just quotes, that belong on Wikiquote. I removed several subheaders since its almost unorthodox to use such organization. Additionally, the article contained (and still contains) POV issues - it uses the words 'unfortunately', 'spectacular', ect, and fails to back many blocks of text with legitimate citations. This is an encyclopedia, not the Zambrano blog, which records his everyday encounters on the field.


 * Also the references could use proper citations. Some of the longer links just stretch the screen. See WP:CITET. --  ShadowJester07  ►Talk  05:57, 3 June 2007 (UTC)


 * More than half? Please cite the half. Its great to get feedback, but just going in and hacking out all the content from an article is just vandalism.--Terren Peterson 16:42, 3 June 2007 (UTC)


 * See The Assume Good Faith policy. You should probably start with with the Manual of style first, since the article reads like an essay or blog, as opposed to an article. There aren't even proper citations to back up most of the article, most of the original references were merely links to quotes. The removal of the content is supported by WP:A, WP:NPOV, and WP:NOR --  ShadowJester07  ►Talk  21:08, 3 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually I just read that policy, and it doesn't say "Go into an article and rip out what you dont' like". Quit vandalizing this page please..--Terren Peterson 11:56, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Man I'm reading through this, and its pathetic. No offense to the guy who has done this, but its not a blog of his daily activities as said above...this is so not necessary...his article is bigger than BETTER pitchers such as Nolan Ryan, Cy Young...I know the better pitchers has nothing to do with what an articles length should be, but this is ridiculous. I don't know enough of what to take out of this article...but you could chop out like 2/3's of it. I mean stuff like preseason hype, slow start etc arent necessary. Here in SF we were STOKED for Zito, but you don't see his article having a million updates ChopAtwa 07:13, 8 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I will move the quotes to wikiquote - does anyone have an example of where this has been done well? Terren Peterson 23:10, 14 June 2007


 * Look at Michael Jordan, there should be a link to his WikiQuote. Basically, just cut and paste all the quotes to http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Carlos_Zambrano. It would also be a good idea to write a brief lead sentence if your starting the page ;)  ►ShadowJester07  03:25, 15 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Wow, three years later and this article is still a gargantuan wreck. Sad.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.57.17.181 (talk) 03:10, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Revert
Just to explain my edits and the revert: I think it's important to mention his contract status in the lead; the contract was mentioned twice in the 2007 season section, which seemed to be unnecessary duplication; and when my edits were reverted, outdated information was restored ("rumors are he will have an $80 million contract"). Chubbles 18:51, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
 * It's more important to mention it in both places. However, your revert is seemingly chronologically out of place. The Cubs the fact that the Cubs were able to sign at least four agents to multi-year/million dollars, drew questions whether (or really when) the Cubs would resign Please cite potentially libelous claims - hence a previous editor mentioned something about the rumors. Also, most of the article is still under work, which explains why there are so many random facts lying around. :p -- ShadowJester07 ► Talk 19:06, 17 August 2007 (UTC)


 * It's chronologically out of place, but I think it's more important to keep the subject matter together here than to maintain strict chronological order. I think it's probably best to have a paragraph about his contract and salary set apart from the information about his season performance. Chubbles 19:20, 17 August 2007 (UTC)


 * That seems like a good idea, I was about to suggest either making a new paragraph or section, since Zambrano's new deal contains a lot of key points.. I think we can find information about Zambrano's salary from his Baseball Reference Profile. -- ShadowJester07 ► Talk 19:25, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Extra Stats
Should Z's career batting stats also be included in his infobox? As a prolific hitting pitcher it may be worth a mention. I open the floor... 195.157.226.49 (talk) 16:39, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

I definitely agree, he always bats and is often used as a pinch hitter as well. His career stats should be shown. Kevinmon (talk) 02:01, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Minor League Stats
If anyone has any free time and enjoys a challenge, convert the text table in Minor League Stats to a Wiki-Table as shown in Major League stats. :)  &lt;3  Tinkleheimer   TALK!!  18:58, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Done, thank God for MS Excel :p. --  StarScream1007  ►Talk  16:15, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

Not moved Vegaswikian (talk) 03:17, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Carlos Zambrano (baseball) → Carlos Zambrano — - There was no reason for this page to be moved from its original location. Carlos Zambrano, the pitcher, is by far the most well-known of the two Carlos Zambranos that have articles on en.wiki. This is further evidenced by the fact that Carlos Zambrano redirects to this page, proving that the disambiguator is totally unnecessary. The hatnote at the top of the article page is fully enough to point people in the right direction if they arrive here accidentally. -- KV5 ( Talk  •  Phils ) 12:02, 27 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Against the Move: Nobody knows about Carlos Zambrano "the pitcher", in a world where baseball is a sport that barely anyone knows about. Association Football is the sport that is more widely known by audiences across the globe, and attempting to claim sole ownership of the name "Carlos Zambrano" for a relatively unknown and probably mediocre baseball player (in comparisson to the few actual world-known baseball players) is completely against Wikipedia standards. The wikipage "Carlos Zambrano" should be made into a disambiguation page for both of the Zambrano people, where the person looking for a specific Zambrano can find either the baseball player or the football player. A person shouldn't be automatically be re-directed to the baseball pitcher as that is essentially unfair and serving to promote a particular individual above another.-- MarshalN20 | T a l k 17:11, 27 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Against. Unfortunately, it is necessary for me to disassociate myself completely from the proceeding comment, which is offensive as well as factually wrong.  However, the situation we have here is that there are two articles about notable sportspersons with the same name. One is a well-known and accomplished player in Major League Baseball, the highest league in his sport.  The other is a promising young player in the Bundesliga, at the highest professional level in his sport.  It seems impossible to conclude that either one of these can be unambiguously identified as the primary topic of the name, so a disambiguation page is in order.  --R'n'B (call me Russ) 13:43, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

2nd Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: page moved. Vegaswikian (talk) 22:33, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Carlos Zambrano (baseball) → Carlos Zambrano — Previous attempt did not get proper attention. Page was originally moved by one editor without discussion in the first place, because he had never heard of the Carlos Zambrano the baseball player. A simple search engine test proves how the baseball player is clearly much more known that the 20-year old football/soccer player that hasn't exactly accomplished much in his career as of yet. Also, the football/soccer player's wiki page goes with his full name (middle name included), so there is no need for a separate disambig page. Blahblah32blahblah (talk) 19:21, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Endorse move; while the notability of the football player is not under debate here, the pitcher is the primary topic and the disambiguator isn't needed due to the use of the footballer's middle name. KV5  ( Talk  •  Phils ) 20:26, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Support. As long as there is a hatnote on Carlos Zambrano, anyone looking for Carlos Augusto Zambrano will get there just as quickly as they would by landing on a two-entry dab page. Station1 (talk) 21:35, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Support The guidelines state that there should not be a disambiguation page when there are only two options.  Disambiguation should be dealt with by hatnotes.  As the footballer is Carlos Augusto Zambrano, that leaves Carlos Zambrano open for the baseball player.  Skinsmoke (talk) 13:47, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Support per above -- T orsodo g Talk 13:42, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
 * See also: Talk:Carlos Zambrano (disambiguation)
 * Post-closure note: This is unrelated to the move request.  I just want to point out that the claim about disambig pages is incorrect.
 * There is no guideline that says you shouldn't have a disambig page with only two options. Now, as in 2010, the guideline states that if one of the two topics is primary, then you should use a hatnote, but if neither is primary, then you should have a disambig page. --Trovatore (talk) 19:18, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Cleanup
One of you cubs fan might wanna clean this up a bit, it mentions that Zambrano's no hitter was on neutral ground twice and really the overall article sounds like a 5th grade school paper. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.240.22.33 (talk) 21:04, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

POV issues
I replaced the Template:Very long with Template:POV. Whilst it is not necessarily a bad thing that an article may be in depth, I believe the spirit of the previous tag was that the article was written with a non-encyclopedic WP:Tone and contained lots of WP:Trivial mentions. With this in mind, I have tagged some of the numerous peacock terms and weasel words, including "turned in another excellent performance," "poor opening game," "dueled," "outdueled," "blew a big early lead," "did not get much support," "had a meltodown," etc. Some statements need to be quantified, whilst others would need to be removed or vastly re-worded to be consistent with WP:NPOV. Zepppep (talk) 10:30, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Controversial?
As of today, the first sentence of the second paragraph describes Zambrano as a "controversial pitcher". That could mean any of a number of things. Athletes are sometimes described as "controversial" if they have been accused of misdeeds related or unrelated to their sport, and the severity of these has an enormous range. Or sometimes it's not about any objectively bad thing at all; they may just have unusual personal habits, or a tense relationship with the media.

Whatever it is, a cursory scan of the article doesn't explain it. It should either be explained (with good sourcing at the WP:BLP standard), or removed. --Trovatore (talk) 06:33, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

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