Talk:Carmen Rodríguez

Plan
The following is our plan for the creation and development of the article on Carmen Rodriguez. Biography, which will focus on 1) early life, origins 2) family 3) education and degrees 4) the importance of religion 5) immigration to canada 6) current jobs and works-in-progress
 * Our aim is to create a comprehensive, detailed and accurate article on Carmen Rodriguez. Our ultimate goal is to reach the Featured Article status.
 * Thus far, we plan on going over the following items regarding Carmen Rodriguez.

Influences on her literary work

Literary Works. In this section we plan on either including a short summary of each work, or a link to already existing articles on her works.

Awards and Recognitions


 * The work will be split up between us in the following manner: mstmaurice will do parts 1-3 of the biography, while exclamationpoint will take care of sections 4-6 of the biography. The remainder of the sections which are shorter will be worked on jointly.


 * exclamationpoint has located an email address for Carmen Rodriguez. We hope to be able to contact her to get an interview or information, or at least to correct false information.

- This article is part of a class project at the University of British Columbia. More information can be found here --Mstmaurice (talk) 19:56, 18 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Looks like a good plan. You can of course add to it over time.  And cross things off when you've done them, including adding a big green checkmark ✅ ✅.  --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 18:22, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

You guys are making great progress here! I'll tidy up a little later, and help format the references. But a quick look suggests that this is basically ready for DYK right now! --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 00:54, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your help everyone. Everything's going according to plan so far - but we definitely need more sources. I've emailed the creator of the website which wasn't so reliable in order to get information about the legitimacy of the interview with the author, hopefully that yields something. The next step now is some more research into reliable sources. The article also needs some organization and a lot of reviewing in terms of the writing - but I suppose we can worry about that after we have our information. --Mstmaurice (talk) 06:36, 19 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your help! I'm planning on emailing Rodriguez tomorrow and to send her a link to this page so she could check it out/to talk about maybe interviewing her in person. I suppose that in writing an article about Rodriguez, the most reliable source would be Rodriguez herself. Also, I would be interested in adding some pictures, could someone help me with this? As well, some of the quotes I have been referring to have been on the back cover/author's page/introduction of Rodriguez's books. How do I cite these if they do not have page numbers? Thank you all very much! --Exclamationpoint (talk) 03:34, 21 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Good call about the pictures - I have no clue how to do that but I'll look into it. We could include a portrait, and some pictures of book covers, etc. as we go on. --Mstmaurice (talk) 08:24, 21 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Pictures are tricky, unless you get them from Rodriguez yourself. I think that fairly soon, once you've developed the article a little more, you can show it to her.  You've done a great job so far!  --08:55, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Unreliable source
One of the recently added refs looks unreliable: this one is just a home page, and so self-published. The interview itself might be reliable if we can find it in another source, but I don't think this page is usable as it stands. Mike Christie (talk) 01:09, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I've emailed the creator of the page to get more information and see if there are legitimate credentials regarding the interview, hopefully I hear back soon! --Mstmaurice (talk) 06:19, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

More generally, you guys are going to have to look for some reliable sources here. Which means, basically, print sources. I'm not entirely sure how much there will be on Rodriguez, so you'll probably need to chase down every last one. (We'll be talking about sources in class on Friday.) --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 16:56, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Possibility for Did you know?
Not quite sure how the process goes... but I was thinking we could do something like did you know... that Carmen Rodriguez published many of her works in both English and Spanish? What sets her apart is that she was also the one responsible for their translation. --Mstmaurice (talk) 18:07, 20 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I think that would be an excellent hook; it's a quite unusual fact about her, so that would be very suitable for DYK. Mike Christie (talk) 18:10, 20 September 2008 (UTC)


 * What Mike said. You'll see I just added Chicano literature to T:TDYK.  You'll want to add yours here and then watchlist the page as other editors go over what you've contributed, checking that it fits the rules.  --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 21:30, 20 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Just added the article here. We'll keep an eye on it. --Mstmaurice (talk) 22:49, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Good job! Yes, check in from time to time to see if anyone has any queries about it.  --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 23:14, 20 September 2008 (UTC)


 * This is great, and not as hard as I thought it would be. Hopefully we can contact Carmen Rodriguez herself soon! Thanks for all the help! --Exclamationpoint (talk) 03:36, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

getting rid of tags for DYK
Guys:

Apparently a DYK is supposed to have no tags. We need to get rid of the ones that are here. The two offending sentences are:

"Carmen Rodriguez describes herself as a writer as being 'committed, hardworking, disciplined'."

Where does this quotation come from? I had a quick look earlier, and couldn't find it. We need a source, with page number etc.

"Rodriguez describes her experience during the coup as an overnight change. Chileans felt a complete lack of freedom and democracy almost instantly. During the incident, many of her friends were jailed or killed."

Ditto here. Where does this information come from? We need a citation. Let's do this today. --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 00:13, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Hey team,

I'm going to delete these sentences temporarily, or at least until we find out if they are from a reliable source or not (currently waiting for the website's owner to contact us). Thanks. --Exclamationpoint (talk) 00:29, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Good work guys! looks like we got it. on to the next step! --24.84.59.200 (talk) 02:35, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, well done! (NB, don't forget to sign in when you are contributing...  :) )  --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 23:53, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

upgrade to C class
I've just upgraded this to C-class. It's probably not far from B-class, in fact. (See the Wikipedia grading scheme.) Well done! --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 10:24, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

sourcing issue
We need a little more to work with regarding the following source: "(p. 134, Now Magazine, toronto, june 5 1992)"

Specifically, we need the author, title, and full page range. --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 22:41, 20 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Looks like I missed that - the article is only on p.134 and the author is John Oughton. I had little time to format the citations for that section, I've got information from another source too.  I'll be tweaking with this tonight. --Mstmaurice (talk) 23:16, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
 * We need the title, too! --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 23:31, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

And with this source, it's unclear to me if the entire article is pages 8-9, or if that particular quotation is pages 8-9. If the former, we also need to know the page that the quotation comes from; if the latter, we also need to know the pages of the full article. --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 23:31, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
 * We also need volume and issue numbers. --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 23:38, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Wow, must be out of it today. The title for the Oughton Article is "Rodriguez mirroring bilingual life". The article in prism magazine is only on page 8-9, with quotations from both pages in our article. I'll add the specific page numbers next to the quotation in the text, if that helps. The volume and issue numbers aren't available on the photocopy that I have - but I've emailed the magazine editor in order to get that information. If I don't hear back by the time I make it to campus tomorrow, I will look it up in the library, as they do have the copies of that magazine. --Mstmaurice (talk) 00:31, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the title. Yes, do indicate specific page numbers for quotations.  I'm a teensy bit surprised that the volume and issue number aren't on the photocopy, but there we go.  Yes, I already saw that the library has the journal's full run.  --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 00:41, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

I've just added a new source from the Canadian National Poetry Magazine - I know I'm missing the volume and issue but I'm working on getting those. --Mstmaurice (talk) 19:56, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Critical Reception Section
I was wondering how long/detailed this section should be. This article focuses primarily on Carmen Rodriguez, not her works specifically. On that note, should a very thorough summary of her criticism be included, or should they be briefly summarized, with links to the articles on those works? In my opinion, the article on a specific work should focus more thoroughly on the criticism, however, since they don't exist I'm not sure if it's our job to include it. In the spirit of making this article as comprehensive as it could be, I'm tempted to include a lot of detail. However, I'm not sure what Wikipedia's guidelines and recommendations for this are. Thoughts? --Mstmaurice (talk) 20:19, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Edit: should we also include a section briefly summarizing her major works? --Mstmaurice (talk) 23:06, 21 October 2008 (UTC)


 * A good way to go about this is to gather the information, add it to the article, and remove it to subarticles if it appears to make the article unbalanced. The article is not yet very long, so I would err on the side of inclusion.  Yes, I'd also include a section summarizing her major work; in fact, if you do that first you may find you have a framework which you can expand with the more detailed critical responses as you locate them. Mike Christie (talk) 00:16, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Aquellera Collective sources
Thanks for all your help, Mike. As for a description of the Aquellera collective, I've found two sources which describe the collective. The first is this website: ,specifically this page  (sorry, I don't know how to add hyperlinks to words.) I'm not sure how reputable that site is. I also found this paper, which does describe the collective but says the paper cannot be cited without permission. I tired to contact the author but the email address failed. --Mstmaurice (talk) 15:54, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I had a quick search but didn't find anything better. If you know anyone who can translate the Dutch site it would work, but for now I'd suggest not worrying about it -- if you find your secondary sources mention the Aquelarre Collective, you will probably find out more about it then; if they don't think it's interesting you can probably drop it.  Another option, given that it's a magazine, is to obtain it through your university library and cite the primary source.  Alternatively, do you have a way to search for reviews of papers published in Aquelarre?  I did a quick search in Google Scholar, but my Spanish is limited to restaurant menu items so I was unable to assess the results.


 * By the way, to link an external link to a word, you do this:


 * This is the link text


 * Typing that in will give you: This is the link text. Basically, anything after a space is the link text. Mike Christie (talk) 22:01, 22 October 2008 (UTC)


 * On the outside chance that someone is still tracking this article, I wanted to ask if you think it's worthwhile to link to the digitized issues of the magazine Aquelarre that the Collective published. You can find it here . alally 22 February 2012  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alallywa (talk • contribs) 17:17, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Shayne reference
Is the Shayne book forthcoming? Are you citing a manuscript copy? That's OK, I think, but we need to know. Please clarify. --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 04:35, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, it is forthcoming. She says it's "getting close to finishing".  I found her paper and said that the author's permission must be given, which is why I initially contacted her. This is what she said for citing: "Please cite them as listed on the title page and use the chapter titles in ea doc.  Also, just a heads up before printing, the biblio is almost 60 pages.  Please send me your final version.
 * Also, if you can put a link to my first book when you cite me that would be great. Here it is: http://rutgerspress.rutgers.edu/acatalog/__The_Revolution_Question_1418.html" --05:16, 27 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Where did you find it? Is this up on the web somewhere?  --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 05:18, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I found it by doing some searches on Google. The result was a url of her website, where the paper was hosted.  After contacting her, she sent me different sections of the book, including an updated one of the one I found online.  www.julieshayne.net/Paper_Exile_feminism.doc  is the original I've found, the rest are .pdfs that she's emailed to me. --Mstmaurice (talk) 05:31, 27 October 2008 (UTC)


 * OK, got it. (And I got your email, too.)  So long as we make clear that this is forthcoming (and she does seem to have a book contract), then I think this is OK.  --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 05:40, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Chronolgy of biography
The biography section still has some editing that needs to be done - I'm just not sure if we should add sub-sections for her original arrival to Canada, then her return to Latin America, and then her return to Canada and current life. Text from the 1st Canada section would have to be moved down, I'm just not sure if we should do it chronologically. I think we have enough content to reasonably fill each section, however I'm not sure what the best way would be to do it. Thoughts? --Mstmaurice (talk) 05:37, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Edit: I've moved stuff around and like the way the section is for now, but if someone feels different about it please let me know! --Mstmaurice (talk) 19:47, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Work with native literacy section
I can't seem to find much secondary info on her work with this, other then her actual work. I'm not sure if this counts, maybe we could use it as a description. However, I do believe this work is significant and has had an impact on BC schools. I understand, though, that if there are no sources on it it won't be considered notable. Should we remove the section entirely or would it be possible to fill it with information found in her publications on the topic? --Mstmaurice (talk) 19:45, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I've deleted the section until more evidence is found. --19:42, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

B class upgrade and a suggestion
I've upgraded this to B class. I cut one sentence from the lead: "After her flight to Canada, it was over a decade before she began to write seriously again." It was tagged with a "citation required" tag, and B class does require reasonably good referencing, so I felt it was best just to move it here and let you figure out what to do with it. Ideally you'd be able to cite a source saying this directly, but short of that you can include a list of major works and then the statement becomes uncontroversial if there's a gap from 1974 to 1984.

A possible next step would be to take whatever critical material you have on her major works -- which appear to be and a body to remember with and Guerra Prolongada, going by the current version of the article -- and create sections that discuss each of these works specifically. Once you've assembled some critical material in each of these sections you may find that there are critical comments that go beyond the individual works that you can extract for a summary critical reception section. Mike Christie (talk) 00:12, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Book cover
This book cover is still under copyright. To include it in the article, we need a compelling reason (see WP:NFCC for Wikipedia's policy on non-free images). Usually we only include book covers in the articles about those books. We would need something about the cover itself and its relationship to the author to be able to include it here. I did not see any information of that sort in the article, so I have put the image up for deletion. Awadewit (talk) 06:58, 16 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I've been wondering about this. Alas, our Russian friend isn't around (though I fear I know what he would say...).  But it seems fair enough to me that where there is no article about the book in question, the image should be fair use in the article devoted to the author.  What do you think?  --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 07:53, 16 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I've actually read up on these rules now and I don't think so, especially since the only purpose was illustration. There is no need to visually identify the book in this article. Awadewit (talk) 17:19, 16 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, someone has created a one-line stub for And a body to remember with in order to save the fair use image! How ridiculous. Awadewit (talk) 18:19, 16 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Oops, actually that was me! Though I did it ages ago (and I'd forgotten I'd done it...), not for the image as I remember.  Actually, I can't quite remember why I did it...  Oh yes, because exclamation point had done up an entire infobox for the book, which clearly didn't fit in Rodriguez's article, but I thought I'd put it somewhere.  OK, but the image definitely goes.  --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 00:07, 17 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Although I'm unfamiliar with these rules, it does make sense to me that since we don't relate the cover illustration to anything factual or relevant, the picture serves merely as eye-candy. I'm not sure if that warrants its removal, but I'll try to see if I can find an answer on my end, although it seems Awadewit is knowledgeable about these rules.  --Mstmaurice (talk) 19:32, 16 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm sure we can't use the image in this article - see WP:NFCC. Those are the rules for non-free images. Since the image doesn't contribute "significantly" to the reader's understanding of the topic, we can't include it. Also, note the tag accompanying the image - it says "to illustrate an article discussing the book in question". Awadewit (talk) 19:51, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
 * There's an issue resolved, thanks! --Mstmaurice (talk) 20:11, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Image:El Aquelarre (1797-1798).jpg
Any connection between this Goya image and the magazine? (Looking for public domain images.) Awadewit (talk) 18:43, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for taking a look at our article, Awadewit. To be honest, my knowledge of art is non-existent.  I've been trying to figure out what "aquelarre" means, whether defined in Spanish or translated in English.  I've looked in a dictionary and online, and the one result I got was "sabbath".  I'm not sure what the image alludes to, so I can't confirm whether its relevant or not. What do you think?  Again, thanks for taking a look at our article, and I look forward to discussing what improvements could be done with you soon! --Mstmaurice (talk) 19:28, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
 * That makes sense for Goya - see Witches' Sabbath. I don't know about Rodriguez and religion, though. Was it serious, ironic, what? Awadewit (talk) 19:48, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Umm from what I gather I don't think religion is a considerable element to Rodriguez's life... It's not really mentioned in any of the sources we've found, nor did she talk about it when we interviewed her. Neither is religion a major theme in and a body to remember with.  As for its relevance to the magazine, I'm not sure.  The main purpose of the magazine was to raise awareness about female issues and injustices, and Chilean issues.  The irony, though, could be that those involved with the magazine put so much time and work into it that it became ironic to refer to the magazine as "a day of rest".  However, there's no sources on this, and my connection could be a stretch.  --Mstmaurice (talk) 20:10, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
 * That's a bust on that image, then. Awadewit (talk) 20:14, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Seems like it, but I appreciate the effort to look it up. Maybe we could include a magazine cover, but that would probably fall under the same scrutiny as the and a body to remember with book cover. --Mstmaurice (talk) 23:03, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Image
What happened to the picture of Rodriguez? Awadewit (talk) 01:10, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Are there any free images of Pinochet or Allende we could use in the "Chile" section? Other ideas for images there? I've added a flag, but it is not he most imaginative choice. Awadewit (talk) 01:57, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I've found an image of Pinochet. I've replaced the lame flag. Awadewit (talk) 02:40, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Picture of Pinochet looks great. The picture of Rodríguez was deleted... the author gave us permission to use it specifically for our wikipedia project.  After uploading it we realized this isn't sufficient.  I've emailed Rodriíguez to try to get the author (her daughter) to release the picture under creative commons or to release it completely into the public domain; I'm still waiting to hear back. Mstmaurice (talk) 19:58, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, ok. Awadewit (talk) 01:16, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Carmen Rodríguez. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20110930082836/https://www.cspi.org/printFriendly.asp?siteid=100366&menuid=5376&cat=9869&prodid=116836&lgid=1 to https://www.cspi.org/printFriendly.asp?siteid=100366&menuid=5376&cat=9869&prodid=116836&lgid=1

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 22:42, 1 March 2016 (UTC)