Talk:Carol Ann Duffy

Moved
Moved to new page to correct spelling of "Carol". Mswake 12:10 Jan 8, 2003 (UTC)

Pls dear i am a poor gentle man who want to be friend to u pls Aniah Dominic (talk) 10:40, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

Pls i truly nw your reply pls Aniah Dominic (talk) 10:42, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

Homophobia allegation
"Carol Ann Duffy was almost appointed the British Poet Laureate in 1999 (after the death of previous Laureate Ted Hughes), but lost out on the position to Andrew Motion. A Downing Street official said that Prime Minister Tony Blair was 'worried about having a homosexual poet laureate because of how it might play in middle England."

Is this definitely true? There were rumours at the time but it seems a bit unlikely that "a Downing Street official" would have said anything quite so frank, admitting to disgraceful if not illegal bias by a highly image-conscious PM. Statement would appear to need verifying, attributing and/or toning down. Flapdragon 02:51, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

"She regards Andrew Motion as a friend and says that the idea of a contest for the position between her and him for the post was entirely invented by the newspapers."

Added the above summary of her comments heard on the BBC Radio 4 programme Book Club on Sun 5 Dec 2004. Harry 01:04, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

NPOV
"She is one of the few poets in the UK to combine academic integrity with accessibility and popularity."

This may be perfectly true but doesn't seem like NPOV somehow -- who says so? Added a rather pusillanimous little "perhaps" to tone it down. Harry 01:07, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * I cut it completely, looked ugly to me, and is pretty much mirrored in the other sourced statements anyway. On the subject of sourcing, I'm uneasy about "According to the Sunday Times…" since we haven't actually got a link to the relevant Sunday Times article itself, and I'm not at all sure of the validity of knittingcircle as a source, especailly a tertiary one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Benmachine (talk • contribs) 16:30, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

OBE and CBE
I have read that she has been awarded an OBE and a CBE. Can anyone verify this?


 * OBE in 1995, CBE in 2001, Hon DLitt (Warwick), ditto (Keele), Honorary something-or-other (Dundee), FRSLit. Prof (Creative Writing School) at Manchester. All that and The World's Wife still makes me laugh out loud. Angus McLellan 00:57, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Maureen Duffy disambig
Do we really need this? Guinnog 19:49, 26 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't think it's necessary.From my layman's point of view, she's not nearly so famous. Maybe it's because they share a surname, and are both homosexual. I guess if a few more people post saying they don't think it's necessary and noone posts otherwise, we could remove it. Kymara 20:40, 26 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree it shd probably be deleted. Once we start disambiguating people whose names aren't even the same where will we stop? Flapdragon 21:23, 26 March 2006 (UTC)


 * If all they share is the same last name, I agree: delete. Kdammers 02:38, 5 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Done Guinnog 03:26, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Civil partnership?
Is it true Murice Oldamon is her lesbian partner, and that they had a civil partnership in 2004?

AQA Anthology
Carol Ann Duffy has had some poems put in to the AQA Anthology (ISBN 019 831881 2). It may be worth including this in the article, and others. I would do it now but I'm supposed to be revising for an English Literature Exam tomorrow! Stwalkerster talk review 18:41, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Also i'm sure Education for Leisure has not been removed from the AQA Anthology, its just not a named poem anymore, which means they won't ask you about it in the exam, but you can still refer to it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.12.64.21 (talk) 18:22, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

No pics?
Surely we can find some interesting pics to liven up the site a bit. Some covers of books? Receiving OBE etc? Spanglej (talk) 23:34, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Controversies
'Controversy' is defined as "disagreement, typically when prolonged, public, and heated". The information placed under the section 'Controversies' was not controversial, simply biographical. I therefore moved the information to the Background section of the article. None of the information was changed or deleted - simply relocated.

Controversy sections are for disagreement about 'facts', not about information over which there is no disagreement but about which an editor might not like. For example, it is not controversial that Carol Ann Duffy was passed over for Poet Laureate in 1999 because of her sexuality - it is just a matter of fact. Whether or not an editor (or members of the public at large) likes that decision is of no consequence to the article.

On the other hand, there are instances where the facts of an event are not clear, and experts are documented to have heated public disagreements about the facts. This is the proper use of a Controversy section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.156.252.49 (talk) 10:14, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree entirely. Alboran (talk) 14:57, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Nationality
Legally, the Scottish nationality does not exist!!!. It's British. Sorry if I'm wrong, I'm not a Brit. --Maru-Spanish (talk) 05:45, 2 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree; see Francis Bacon (painter) who was of British parentage, but born in Dublin, Ireland. There has been much rather futile and circular debate about whether he should be termed Irish or British. I think Duffy should be described as a British poet born in Glasgow, Scotland. She was raised and educated in Stafford, England, where she spent all her formative years. My ten cents on this thorny issue. Peter morrell 06:14, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Well that figures, when I saw her live five years ago she spoke with an Scottish-English Accent. And I suppose Scotland not being a sovereign state means that there is no Scottish nationality. But nationalists (Who follow NPOV most of the time but when it comes down issues of nationality they seem to magically forget it) like to think over wise, letting there agenda interfere. 88.109.131.187 (talk) 11:41, 2 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Has anyone any information as to how she defines herself in this respect? If you're reading this, Carol Ann, please tell us! SamuelTheGhost (talk) 17:29, 2 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Well I have changed my mind...if she was born in Scotland to Scottish parents, then she is Scottish! period, no matter where she ended up later, so I have no objection whatever to her being called Scottish in this article. Just to clarify FWIW. Peter morrell 19:33, 2 May 2009 (UTC)


 * On the Andy Murray article there was a similar debate, and in the end we went for Scottish because that is what he defined himself as. So does anyone know what she calls herself? Because if she says Scottish, then I think it should be Scottish, not British. And it isn't POV as some people try and say. Alan 16  talk  08:54, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * That's very oddly worded. "if she says Scottish, then I think it should be Scottish". Yes. Also "if she says English, then I think it should be English" and "if she says British, then I think it should be British", so why didn't you say those too? SamuelTheGhost (talk) 17:34, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * There is no need to try and act clever Samuel. The British was certainly implied, so you are either being stupid or deliberately obtuse. I did't mention English, because it really isn't up for debate. The debate is between Scottish and British, not English. Alan 16  talk  18:33, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your kind words. I do hope we can find evidence that she describes herself as English. SamuelTheGhost (talk) 18:39, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Stop making these ridiculous edits. Adding a get-out clause on to every single mention of her nationality is not an improvement. Alan 16  talk  18:53, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

The situation as to her nationality is as follows: SamuelTheGhost (talk) 20:14, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * If she has expressed her own preference, explicitly or implicitly, whatever it may be, that should be our choice too.
 * In the absence, as far as I know, of such expression, we have to proceed from the facts, namely
 * She was born in Scotland to a Scottish father and a mother of Irish descent and lived in Scotland as a small child.
 * The entire rest of her life has been spent in England. Her schooling, from primary through to University, was in England. As an adult she has continued to live solely in England.
 * The word "British" was brought into common use after 1707 precisely to cover both English and Scottish nationality, and particularly cases where there was any ambiguity. Clearly "British" is appropriate for C. A. D.
 * Neverthless I used "Scottish-born", which is clearly also accurate, for her nationality in the article, as a gesture of goodwill to those who wish to emphasise the Scotish part of her background.
 * To call her unambigously a "Scot" is at best half-true, and a breach of WP:NPOV
 * To delete the category "people from Stafford" is little better than vandalism
 * Those who resort to insults, such as those above, betray the weakness of their position.
 * I have to say that in cases of nationality, Scotland hasn't been a country for quite some time and should be treated like a state rather than a country. How about reforming the statement to say .."was born in Glasglaw, Scotland, in the United Kingdom, and was a prominent British poet (blah blah blah). I mean it doesn't seem like that touchy of an issue since they have been in the UK for 300 years. Mrathel (talk) 20:23, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd be happy with something on those lines. SamuelTheGhost (talk) 20:46, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * If you want to go down that line, look at people like Siegfried Sassoon. It calls him "English", not "British". England is no more of a country than Scotland is if we go by your logic, as England is a "state" as you say, then we would need to go around changing almost every Wiki article on a British literary figure. I think the fact that she is Scottish is important, as it is the first time a Scot has had the post. All notable news sources say that she is "the first Scot", and I think it is therefore something we should mention. And calling her Scottish is not NPOV. It is her nationality. And there is no half-truth in it. Born in Scotland to Scottish parents equals a Scot. And the "people form Stafford" bit was an accident, as I believed I was reverting your edits, and it must of therefore been somebody an edit by somebody before, which you could have easily found out. And you were the one clearly looking for some sort of response when you were being obtuse. Therefore I would not agree with Mrathel's possible edits. Alan 16  talk  23:29, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

It's a pity this argument has erupted. A similar situation existed at Francis Bacon (painter) about his Irishness, and it is all rather futile. As Alan says, "Born in Scotland to Scottish parents equals a Scot." I have to say I entirely agree with him. That is more NPOV than calling her Scottish born or British IMO. I am English on both sides of my family for at least 8 generations but regard myself as human, regarding nationalities as such pitiful human constructs. That's my ten penn'orth on this one. Someone should ask CAD what she thinks about this. thanks Peter morrell 05:08, 13 May 2009 (UTC)


 * She wrote a poem on the subject, called "Originally". Do you know it? I say CAD is British, like Tony Blair, who was also born in Scotland and raised in England. --John (talk) 05:21, 13 May 2009 (UTC) Oh, and Tony Blair's mother was Irish. Don't forget. Ausseagull (talk) 10:45, 18 May 2010 (UTC)


 * From my experience on other articles, it comes down to what they call themselves. I've not seen anything in interviews whilst I've been trawling the internet, so I think it could still go either. I've never read the poem John, but I imagine that unless she states it clearly (an innovative idea for a poet) it would be original research. Alan 16  talk  07:52, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

She's British, if she identifies herself as Scottish, she is British... It's not a matter of what I want to be... I could say "I identify myself as Micronesian"... but, I am not a Micronesian! --190.49.101.168 (talk) 16:43, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
 * No. That is wrong. Scotland is a country, read the first sentence of that article. If she defines herself as Scottish then she is Scottish. And don't be so obtuse, the debate here is between Britain and Scotland, so your stupid example is not necessary.
 * Also, as a comment for everyone, I am going to change the British to Scottish because major news sources call her "the first Scot" to be poet laureate. They are saying she is Scottish, so I think having it as British would be contrary to other parts of the article. Alan 16  talk  17:02, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
 * When talking with a friend, he brought up an interesting point. Calling her British is probably more POV than calling her Scottish, as all evidence points to her being Scottish. Just a thought. Alan 16  talk  17:11, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Greetings, i have changed the nationality back to British.. -She is poet laureate of the UK. -She was raised mostly in England. -Scotland is not a sovereign state, there fore no legal nationality. -She has not identified as Scottish. Misortie (talk) 09:41, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

In addition, the media calling her Scottish is a total irrelevance to this article. When they are referring to her being Scottish, it was only because she was the first ETHNIC Scott to become poet laureate. Moreover, being poet laureate of the UK is the strongest reason for her being described as British in nationality. If she does not consider herself British, then she would have most likely turned down the role and snubbed the royal family.Misortie (talk) 09:51, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Ok i have gone half/half, a bit like Chris Hoy. Theres a good reason to call her Scottish as well as British, i think you will find. Misortie (talk) 10:08, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, there is no such nationality category as Scottish on wikipedia - it is not classed as a nationality. Also, under Duffy surnames CAD appears listed under British...go figure that one. Just a few thoughts. Peter morrell 05:52, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, if you read the nationality article you would see that it mentions the following: association, affiliation, loyalty, self-determination, semi-autonomous status, cultural ties. So stop it with the crap that someone cannot be Scottish simply because Scotland is part of the United Kingdom. It is not true. One might say: go figure... Alan 16  talk  15:34, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I can not believe this argument has gone this far. In the US, one can be from say Florida, but their nationality is not Floridian, even though Florida is a provence in the US just as Scotland is a provence in the UK. If she identifies as a Scot, that does not mean she does not identify as a Brit, and having the term "British" in her description in no way suggests that she is not also a Scot; it is just a term for nationality rather than statehood. I have to stick with my suggestion that the article describe her as being a Brittish poet from Scotland. Mrathel (talk) 15:53, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Will people stop it with these inaccurate analogies. If you want a better example: think more Native American than Floridian. Their nationality is Sioux or (enter name of another Native American tribe here). Scotland is an autonomous region of the United Kingdom, and as such people from their can legally define themselves as Scottish. Scotland is not a Provence. It is a country. What we need is some evidence for what she calls herself. As the nationality article states, nationality can and commonly is self-determination. Alan 16  talk  16:38, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * In terms of the strength of feeling that it evokes, a closer analogy might be with the Confederate States of America. It is well established, in wikipedia as elsewhere, that people who are Scottish can be described as such. Alan is right to say "What we need is some evidence for what she calls herself", but unfortunately we have no such evidence, so have to proceed without it. If CAD had spent her entire formative years in Scotland, or lived there now and asserted a Scottish identity, or wrote in a distinctively Scottish language, I would have no problem with calling her a Scot. But none of those condition apply. As it is, "Anglo-Scottish", or "Scottish born" or "British" give us an adequate range of valid descriptions. SamuelTheGhost (talk) 17:31, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree with Samuel on this one. --John (talk) 00:04, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It seems that there is pretty close to an agreement that if and when we have a statement from the poet, we'll use that. Until then....  I don't see any indication that she has given up her "Scottishness," which leans me toward "Scottish."  But her life in England and her title argue for call ing her "British."  "Anglo-Scottish" is unclear, and "Scottish born" seems to me to indicate that we know she didn't remain Scottish - so I'm against it.Kdammers (talk) 04:50, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
 * +Encarta, not a particularly good source, calls her a British poet. +http://britologywatch.wordpress.com/2009/05/04/carol-ann-duffy-first-female-correction-first-scottish-poet-laureate/, which is only a sort of blog,  calls her Scottish, while apparently complaining that a Scot could get the position, if I understand it.

+http://www.scotland.org/ calls her the first Scottish p.l. +www.theherald.co.uk/ calls her Scottish +http://www.spl.org.uk/about/index.html: "In 2009, she accepted the post of Poet Laureate, making her the first female, Scottish Poet Laureate in the role's 400 year history. " + The official pl site does not mention Scotland or Scottish at all, only noting Glasgow. But there is an implicit reference to Scotland: it says her family moved to England. In the general pl information section, it says, "The honorary Royal post of Poet Laureate is awarded to a poet whose work is of national significance." It also includes a postal contact address for the poet. Perhaps a wik editor in the UK could write and ask. Kdammers (talk) 05:11, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Let's try a thought-experiment. Suppose a poet was born in England, to English and Welsh parents. When the poet is a small child the family moves to Scotland. The poet goes to school solely in Scotland, then to University in Scotland, and continues to reside and work in Scotland. The poet is honoured. Would it be considered reasonable for this hypothetical poet to be labelled just "English"? SamuelTheGhost (talk) 11:30, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Going back to a point somebody made earlier on. The poem Originally I think clearly shows that she is Scottish. To summarise it, it is about her moving from Scotland to England. She talks about losing her culture and identity. My only problem with this is that it may be OR as she never explicitly says I am Scottish. Alan 16  talk  16:48, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * There's nothing wrong with a bit of OR on a talk page if it's done intelligently. The poem Originally is about her coming to terms with her double nationality, which she clearly has done. Everyone accepts that Scottishness is part of her identity. Why are you so bent on denying that Englishness is also a part? SamuelTheGhost (talk) 19:56, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I am denying that she is English because I do not believe she is. And I disagree with your opinions on the poem. I took it to as her fear of losing her national identity, not coming to terms with a double nationality. That is the problem with poetry on Wikipedia, any interpretation is going to be OR and can't be used for the article. Alan 16  talk  20:19, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Why don't you respond to my "thought-experiment", above? I'd like to know your answer. SamuelTheGhost (talk) 20:41, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I think it is a bit extravagant to call it a "thought-experiment" as my answer would be the same as for Duffy. Does he/she consider her/himself to be English or Scottish. I would go for English until evidence to the contrary, because that is where he/she was born. Alan 16  talk  21:23, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Duffy is clearly Scottish (being born in Scotland) and the article text is fine, but I would have thought it would be clearer if the nationality in the infobox just said United Kingdom. MilborneOne (talk) 22:06, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Am not sure that removing the Scottish word in the first sentence is such a good idea. Can we discuss this again? Scottish is surely as good as anything? She was born in Scotland, which makes her Scottish IMO. However, some may prefer it to say "Scottish-born British poet," for example. No big rush and no need to edit war, but can we reach consensus on this matter please? thanks Peter morrell 07:29, 25 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Rather than seeing it in terms of "removing", let's just look at what's there now, namely "Carol Ann Duffy, CBE, FRSL (born 23 December 1955, Glasgow) is a poet, playwright, and freelance writer, who currently holds the position of Britain's poet laureate" Is this accurate? Yes. Does it read smoothly? Yes (though I'd be inclined to de-link "poet"). Is any information about her nationality missing? No, since we can assume that most of our readers are aware that Glasgow is in Scotland. This version is preferable on stylistic grounds, quite apart from the arguments about nationality above. SamuelTheGhost (talk) 11:02, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Your answer misses the point. Scottish is not simply a quasi-nationality it is also an identity and being born in Scotland certainly makes her Scottish. Your answer also ignores the legitimate concerns and sensitivities of the Scottish people and subsumes and subordinates her natural identity as British, which basically means English, which has been the numerically dominant ethnic group in these isalnds for centuries. As protesters against English Imperialism, the Welsh, Scots and Irish have a genuine case for recognition of their own separate and distinctive identities. I therefore think we should have further input on this, not just from you, to achieve a genuine consensus. As it stands, the wording seems inadequate and offensive to non-English British people and it is therefore likely to get repeatedly reverted and edit warred over, perhaps endlessly. Peter morrell 12:18, 25 May 2009 (UTC)


 * OK here goes. In the wiki article Scottish people it says this: "In modern use "Scottish people" or "Scots" refers to anyone born in Scotland. In another sense, it applies to people who are descended from the Scots and who identify ethnically as Scots." I would venture therefore to say that Carol Ann Duffy is Scottish on both of the three counts mentioned here. I propose therefore to change the article to say in the first sentence "Scottish poet". Are there any massive objections to this? thanks Peter morrell 16:18, 28 May 2009 (UTC)


 * There is a massive objection from me on several counts. First, the reference to another wikipedia article is irrelevant, since it is neither a statement of wikipedia policy nor allowed as WP:RS. Second CAD is not known on any evidence to "identify ethnically as Scots". Third, and most obviously, in the context we are discussing there is no need for any describing adjective at all, and it seems pointlessly provocative to propose to insert one. SamuelTheGhost (talk) 16:49, 28 May 2009 (UTC)


 * What I think is the most ludicrous thing in all this is that Samuel, you seem to think that the burden of proof lies with those of us who call her Scottish. All available evidence points to her being Scottish: born in Scotland to Scottish parents. It should be up to you to prove her non-Scottishness, not us to prove that she is Scottish. Something else which is extremely annoying is some people's inability to accept that you can be Scottish. Alan 16  talk  20:50, 28 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I've been asked to comment on this discussion as an uninvolved editor. Reading over the sources, I think it is abundantly clear that she has been described as a Scot in multiple newspaper articles. Wikipedia articles must follow what the sources say, so this article should also describe her as a Scot. Tim Vickers (talk) 17:03, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


 * May we enquire who asked you, and by what means? SamuelTheGhost (talk) 18:27, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


 * You could certainly ask, but as that isn't relevant to my opinion on the text of the article and its sourcing, such a discussion would be a diversion from the issue at hand. As a proposal, list the sources we are discussing, then we summarise the contents of these sources in the article. Tim Vickers (talk) 20:50, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Your very first words on this page, above, were "I've been asked to comment" yet when pressed you pompously refuse to explain. Your user page shows you to be a Scottish biochemist and your contribution record has been exclusively on scientific matters, with no previous sign of interest in the arts. All very odd. SamuelTheGhost (talk) 21:27, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


 * We now have a list of many sources that describe her as a "Scottish poet", a few that describe her as a "British poet", some that don't mention her "nationality", but none that describe her as a English poet. How do you think we should summarise these sources in the article? Tim Vickers (talk) 21:39, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


 * By describing her as a poet. Born in Glasgow, brought up in England. SamuelTheGhost (talk) 21:49, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


 * That would ignore a point mentioned in many reliable sources listed below, if sources as authoritative as the BBC and The Times considered this worth mentioning, I don't think we should omit this. We can attribute this statement directly to one particular source if you think that would help, what about: "Writing in The Independent Peter Forbes described the appointment of a Scot to the post of poet laureate as part of a renaissance in Scottish poetry." Tim Vickers (talk) 21:55, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

I can't find that particular quote, but if that's what he said, I'd be perfectly happy to include it. SamuelTheGhost (talk) 22:12, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Samuel, why are you so opposed to her being described as Scottish? Almost all the reliable sources call her Scottish, not British. There really is no debate here. It is 8 reliable sources calling her Scottish, and 2 calling her British. The evidence speaks for itself. Alan 16  talk  22:28, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Can we put an end to this? The sources describing her as Scottish is just getting longer and longer. Alan 16  talk  12:04, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Hopefully this version diff will solve the problem by attributing this opinion to a notable and reliable source. If necessary we can also attribute the second part of the statement as well (ie "..with writers such as Joe Bloggs describing Duffy as the first Scottish poet laureate"), but that would read rather clumsily. Tim Vickers (talk) 16:01, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * OK, I think that's fair. Thanks. SamuelTheGhost (talk) 16:12, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm sorry but I don't think that solves any of the current issues. We could say she is "a Scottish [refs] and British poet [refs]" and then choose 2 or 3 good cites from the lists here. Please also bear in mind there are now more than 9 times as many reputable sources saying she is Scottish as compared to those saying she is British, so we could even drop the British altogether in my opinion. just a suggestion, thanks Peter morrell 16:11, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * With all due respect Tim, I don't think your edits have made the slightest bit of difference. It still reads as if her Scottishness is a second thought. Alan 16  talk  16:54, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * OK, I've changed the order, does that improve how it reads for you? Tim Vickers (talk) 17:04, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It does, yes. Thanks. Alan 16  <sup style="color:DarkGreen;">talk  21:43, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

This is all a bit strange. I mean Andrew Motion is described as an English poet and I couldn't find any debate as to whther he was English or British.Ausseagull (talk) 10:45, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Sources describing Duffy as Scottish

 * Daily Mail
 * The Herald
 * LA Times
 * CSMonitor.com
 * The Independent
 * Sean Obrien, The secret weapon of his generation, The Times, February, 2006
 * The Times, December 2003
 * BBC News
 * Daily Telegraph
 * BBC News Wales
 * Carol Ann Duffy appointed first Scottish Poet laureate, Scotland News, 1 May 2009
 * Mark Savage, Profile: Carol Ann Duffy, BBC News, 1 May 2009
 * Glen Levy, Carol Ann Duffy, Time, 1 May 2009
 * Vanessa Thorpe, Duffy likely to be first woman to follow Tennyson and Betjeman as laureate, The Guardian, 18 May 2008
 * Carol Ann Duffy: two poems, Poetry Dispatch, 14 May 2009
 * Scottish Poetry Library
 * Nigel Horne, Carol Ann Duffy set to be first female Poet Laureate, The First Post, 29 April 2009
 * Jessica Green, Carol Ann Duffy is the first lesbian Poet Laureate, Pink News, 1 May 2009
 * Laura Marcus & Peter Nicholls, The Cambridge History of Twentieth Century English Literature, Cambridge University Press, 2005, p.675
 * Angelica Michelis & Antony Rowland, The Poetry of Carol Ann Duffy, Manchester University Press, 2003, p.83
 * Janet Stobart, Britain names first woman as poet laureate, Chicago Tribune, 2 May 2009
 * Tom Hubbard & Ronald D S Jack, Scotland in Europe, Editions Rodopi, 2006, p.147
 * Maurice Lindsay & Lesley Duncan, The Edinburgh Book of Twentieth Century Scottish Poetry, Edinburgh University Press, 2005, p.94
 * Antonia Fraser, Scottish Love Poems, a Personal Anthology, Canongate, 2002, p.32
 * Gordon Liddell & Anne Gifford, New Scottish Poetry, Heinemann, 2001, p.30
 * Aileen Christianson & Alison Lumsden, Contemporary Scottish Women Writers, Edinburgh University Press, 2008
 * Tabarés Pérez, Patricia/Pérez Ruiz, Leonor, Carol Ann Duffy’s Poetry as a Return to the Kristevian Chora, ANGLOGERMANICA ONLINE 2008
 * Roderick Watson, Living with the Double Tongue: Contemporary Poets in Scots, Book review, University of Stirling, p.2

Sources writing at length about her without making any statement on nationality

 * Manchester Metropolitan University, Profile: Professor Carol Ann Duffy
 * Aida Edemariam, Carol Ann Duffy: I don't have Ambassadorial Talents, The Guardian, 26 May 2009
 * Xan Brooks. "Profile: Carol Ann Duffy", The Guardian, 20 January 2006.
 * Hephzibah Anderson. "Interview: Carol Ann Duffy", The Observer, 4 December 2005.
 * Aida Edemariam, Carol Ann Duffy: I don't have Ambassadorial Talents, The Guardian, 26 May 2009
 * Xan Brooks. "Profile: Carol Ann Duffy", The Guardian, 20 January 2006.
 * Hephzibah Anderson. "Interview: Carol Ann Duffy", The Observer, 4 December 2005.

Sources describing Duffy as British

 * Daily Telegraph
 * The Independent
 * Charlotte Mendelson, The gospel truth: book review of Duffy's Feminine Gospels, The Observer, 13 October 2002

Citation problems in Career section
THe career section contains many lines that need to be cited as well as certain adjectives that show either original research or opinion. I have attempted to mark these to help identify lines that need to be referenced or reworded to keep from showing opinion. I don't know enough about the subject to offer any real help, but would be willing to look up sources for some of the more common phrases if needed. Mrathel (talk) 12:44, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Her awards
According to her university webpage these below are her listed awards and dates -- they do not all tally exactly with those listed on the wiki article.


 * • C. Day Lewis Fellowship, 1982
 * • Eric Gregory Award, 1984
 * • National Poetry Competition (for ‘Whoever She Was’), 1986
 * • Somerset Maugham Award (for Selling Manhattan), 1988
 * • Dylan Thomas Award, 1989
 * • Scottish Arts Council Book Award (for The Other Country), 1990
 * • Cholmondeley Award, 1993
 * • Scottish Arts Council Book Award (for Mean Time), 1993
 * • Forward Poetry Prize: Best Poetry Collection of the Year (for Mean Time), 1993
 * • Whitbread Poetry Award (for Mean Time), 1993
 * • Lannan Literary Award (Poetry), 1995
 * • OBE, 1995
 * • Signal Poetry Award (for Stopping for Death), 1997
 * • CBE, 2001
 * • T. S. Eliot Prize (for Rapture), 2005

Perhaps a change is in order using the above citation? Peter morrell 07:10, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The issue is sourcing, it would be more helpful to have non-partisan sources that confirm these awards. -- <u style="font-size:14px; font-family: cursive;color:#8000FF">Banj e  <u style="font-size:14px;font-family: Zapfino, sans-serif;color:deeppink">b oi   08:43, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Nearly all these awards are confirmed in the York Notes reference, but with some variations in the dates. I think in some cases a book of poems was published in one year, then an award for it given in a subsequent year. If so we need to sort out which year to use (if not both). SamuelTheGhost (talk) 11:24, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * A Bibliography section should list the year published, an Awards section should list the year the award was given. A couple references that cover all the awards could lead the section ala - Duffy has recieved numerous awards and honors; and add the refs to this intro sentence to the list. -- <u style="font-size:14px; font-family: cursive;color:#8000FF">Banj e  <u style="font-size:14px;font-family: Zapfino, sans-serif;color:deeppink">b oi   11:31, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

L or B?
The lead states she is bisexual, but she is in the lesbian writers category. She is on the List of bisexual people, but is listed as L on the List of gay, lesbian or bisexual people. Alfred Kinsey (talk) 15:08, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

First openly LGBT Poet Laureate
Were any of the others closeted? Alfred Kinsey (talk) 15:08, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Tennyson may have been. His father disapproved of his relationship with Hallam. Valetude (talk) 12:15, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Correction, it was Hallam's father who disapproved. Valetude (talk) 18:58, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

Recent revert
I removed this, but Peter put it back:

"Duffy was featured in a South Bank Show television special with Melvyn Bragg late on the evening of 6th December 2009 and on Monday 7th December 2009 she made the presentation to Glasgow-born artist, Richard Wright (artist), the winner of the 2009 Turner Prize, in a ceremony in London."

I don't think we should start listing when she appears on television, makes a presentation, or cuts a ribbon. SlimVirgin 18:03, 18 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, a full feature on South Bank Show and presenting the Turner Prize are hardly snipping a few ribbons are they!? Many would see them as high points in the blossoming career of an important public figure. Or is that too old fashioned a view? anyway in general your other edits were fine by me, thanks Peter morrell 10:00, 19 December 2009 (UTC)


 * You're right, those are fair points. And I have no problem with old-fashioned. :) SlimVirgin  TALK  contribs 20:10, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Chronology
It would be useful to clarify which 15 years were devoted to her ong-term Lesbian relationship and also when her relationship with Peter Benson (author) became established.--Johnsoniensis (talk) 10:25, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

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Intro
A minor point, but the sentence Her poems address issues such as oppression, gender, and violence in accessible language is crying out for an additional comma after the word "violence". 95.123.54.33 (talk) 19:11, 10 September 2022 (UTC)


 * It should be fixed now. DannyRogers800 (talk) 10:52, 16 February 2024 (UTC)