Talk:Caron

"Faggin Nazzi" writing system?
Is this for real? Or is it vandalism? See the red link in the "Usage" section of the article. Agent X 12:16, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
 * It is real. See http://www.friul.net/dizionario_nazzi/norme_ortografiche.php if you read italian. rado 13:03, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
 * And to remove any potential confusion, I wrote a stub about the Faggin-Nazzi system. rado 13:34, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Red letter
Is there a good reason why one of the letters is in red? I searched for red and it doesn't appear. 84.9.54.175 (talk) 22:40, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Because it doesn't link to an article.--Prosfilaes (talk) 23:13, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Capitalization of DŽ in Slovak
I have removed the statement that with DŽ in Slovak, capitalization of both D and Ž is preferable. Cf. ,, it was incorrect. When it's freestanding, yes, but not when it is a part of a word. Can a native speaker give a definitive answer? rdancer (talk) 03:34, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
 * No doubt only the first letter is capitalized. I am not sure how much "dž" is considered a letter of its own in Slovak, though in Czech it is not a part of the alphabet (the only "digraph letter" is CH, representing /x/). Nevertheless, even in CH only the C is capitalized. The same applies for Slovak, and digraphs in other languages such as English. I am a native speaker of Czech, not Slovak. Imploder (talk) 18:34, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Other form
In my large atlas, the form of the caron in ď/ľ/ť is not an apostrophe, but identical to the horn on Vietnamese ơ/ư. Is this common?212.137.63.86 (talk) 11:23, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I cannot see any difference in the shape of a (serif) apostrophe and a horn. Apart from that, a horn touches its base letter, whereas an apostrophe or a caron does not. — Emil J. (formerly EJ) 12:15, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Pronunciation of Caron
Can anyone provide a pronunciation (in English) for caron?

I could not find the word on a free dictionary site. Or even in the online version of the Merriam-Webster Unabridged Dictionary. Charletan (talk) 04:17, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
 * As it's spelled, I'd assume. As Care + on, or IPA kɛɹɑn in American English or kɛəɒn in British English (much more speculative, since that's not my dialect.)--Prosfilaes (talk) 00:14, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
 * kærən in British English. BabelStone (talk) 00:28, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Xi
Xi (Ѯ, ѯ) is a letter of the early Cyrillic alphabet. It have a caron.--Юе Артеміс (talk) 22:42, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

big character missing from grey box
I first thought it could not be produced by its own, but noticed that the "Diacritics" list below the grey box has it. Is it only forgotten to put there, or is there some other reason? 85.217.42.90 (talk) 10:52, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
 * It is there. This is likely a problem of your browser. It might help to put a space or something before the character, but I can’t test it as I do not suffer from the original problem.—Emil J. 11:10, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Now I tested it with IE7, and it shows okay. It seems not to work in FF at all, I just tried an older version, the earlier time I used a new version of FF. 85.217.42.90 (talk) 23:10, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry, just noticed it wasn't an old version of Firefox. I mislooked 22.0 for 2.20... 212.50.203.198 (talk) 22:19, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

So, it seems to work in IE & FF 23, and not in FF 22 and Google Chrome. 85.217.42.90 (talk) 21:32, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Currently works in Chrome. 212.50.203.198 (talk) 05:19, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Use of Ǧ and Ǩ in Skolt Sami
There is no source for why the use of the characters are used inconsistently. I also doubt if it's true. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Littleowljrn (talk • contribs) 18:28, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
 * You doubt if what is true? Out article on Skolt Sami is quite clear on that ‹č ǯ š ž ǩ ǧ› are existing graphemes and on their phoneme values. -- Trɔpʏliʊm • blah 08:14, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

Hacek versus caron
This edit is highly biased. Both "caron" and "hacek" are understood by certain groups of English speakers to mean this symbol, so neither is inaccurate. References are not for editorializing; I personally think the problems with "wedge" should be clear to the English-speaking reader.

"Its earliest known use was in the United States Government Printing Office Style Manual of 1967, for an unrelated mark with same shape." is false. You can check the source at the Internet Archive, and given that it comes after acute, grave, tilde, circumflex, macron, breve, diaeresis, cedilla, and caret, it seems quite likely to be exactly what is now called "caron". Statements like "Though considered “standardese,”" violate WP:MOSWTW, the Manual of Style. Particular sources that call it "standardese" can be cited, but it's certainly not universally considered such. (While I'm at the MoS, MOS:CURLY calls for straight quotes, not curly quotes.--Prosfilaes (talk) 09:51, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes I understand, I see what I’m facing. I’ll try to sort things out when I’ve got some spare time. — I don’t agree that ASCII quotes should be the house style policy. I don’t see the point in enforcing a particular kind of quotes on users that have got habits with curly quotes. We’ve got trouble in French with the ASCII apostrophe, and you can use either in the text. It doesn’t seem appropriate to even mention the ASCII quotes wrt users currently using Unicode. -- Hnvnc (talk) 19:55, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
 * The policy on enforcing a certain type of quotes is far beyond this page. That's the rules for the English Wikipedia.--Prosfilaes (talk) 02:59, 21 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Noted, thanks. Hopefully I’ll remember. Please don’t interpret any malicious intent in making typos of that sort. (BTW in French only the page titles are under ASCII constraint, and even there are many redirections for the sake of curly apostrophe.) -- Hnvnc (talk) 11:42, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

page preview not working properly
When previewing the page caron from another Wikipedia page, it shows an image of a Phoenician sin instead of a caron image. Maybe someone knows how to fix that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ninjamin (talk • contribs) 08:59, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Previews seem to just show the first image that is anywhere on the page, so I guess it works as intended (still confusing). Ninjamin (talk) 23:26, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

Names of this diacritic in English
The lead para begins with this statement: A caron (/ˈkærən/), háček or haček (/ˈhɑːtʃɛk/ or /ˈheɪtʃɛk/; plural háčeks or háčky) also known as a hachek, wedge, … Taking all these points into account, the lead para would begin thus: A caron (/ˈkærən/), hacek (/ˈhɑːtʃɛk/ or /ˈheɪtʃɛk/; plural haceks) also known as a hachek, wedge, … yoyo (talk) 11:29, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) Just because the original language of háček (Czech) uses accents doesn't mean that the loanword in English either does or should. It's more common to drop all accents, even in such common cases as cafe, nee, soupcon etc. which originally had accents in French (café, née, soupçon).  What's needed here is some reference to prove that it's known in English as háček or haček.  Failing that, the text quoted above should show it unaccented: hacek, as many of us will have seen it used in English.  (Strictly speaking, even mentioning that usage in English requires at least one reference to comply with Wikipedia policy — as do each of the other names given.)
 * 2) We also need a reference to show that English actually imports the foreign plural háčky, rather than using the normal rules of pluralisation in English. Again, I don't think it likely we'll find one, but we'll probably find the regular English plural haceks without looking too hard.
 * 3) The section uses the sensible convention of italicising the various names, e.g. caron.  I think the lead para should too.

Requested move 19 April 2022

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: not moved    Kadzi    (talk) 08:01, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

– English language does not use diacritics (Macron → Macron (diacritic) at Talk:Macron (diacritic)) and, in the English-speaking world, the likeliest WP:PRIMARYTOPIC would be Caron (name) which lists 12 people with the surname Caron and three people with the given name Caron. There is a total of six entries listed upon the Caron (disambiguation) page and it seems unlikely that, in English Wikipedia, a diacritic would possess renown sufficient to overwhelm the combined notability of five other topics. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 07:19, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Caron → Caron (diacritic)
 * Caron (disambiguation) → Caron
 * Comment First: your reference to "Macron" is not a similarity: "Macron" is the surname of the French president(-ial candidate back then), and rightly a new claim to PRIMARYTOPIC. Still, the bare title macron is the DAB page. Article Caron (name) does not have this claim. Second, the fact that a caron diacritic is "not used in English language" [writing] does not alter its encyclopedic relevance. This English-language wiki is not to describe the English language sec. -DePiep (talk) 11:29, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose. The other topics are all very minor with the exception of Parfums Caron. I still think the diacritic is primary over it however. &mdash;Xezbeth (talk) 11:53, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
 * oppose page views don't show clear preference for current topic |Caron|Caron_(name)|Caron,_Saskatchewan|Caron,_Western_Australia|Parfums_Caron—blindlynx 17:35, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose. I see no challenge for long-term significance, while usage data (1.4% of the visitors to the article end up following the hatnote link to the dab page ) is also likely indicative of the current primary topic being appropriate. – Uanfala (talk) 16:54, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment: "[The] English language does not use diacritics". What a silly comment. It's true that it doesn't, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. This is an article about the caron, not about using the caron in the English language. J I P  &#124; Talk 10:32, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Next time, try writing th same without the needless, offensive word silly  please. -DePiep (talk) 11:02, 20 April 2022 (UTC)


 * Oppose. Faulty premise for a move request. Macron would probably still be where it was if Emmanuel Macron didn't exist. Maybe Leslie Caron will become France's oldest president, and we can revisit, how about that... --Quiz shows 22:54, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Primary topic. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:39, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment. Although I neglected to make mention of it in the nomination, it should be also noted that "caron", the term currently serving as the putative primary topic of the Caron (disambiguation) page, has not established a full consensus to express the English-language definition of the diacritic in question. The discussions linked below did take place 16 years ago, but the researched and sourced anti-"caron" linguistic points presented at that time continue to be available for present day perusal by those who may be interested.
 * All three of those 2006 nominations — Talk:Caron/Archive 1, followed by Talk:Caron/Archive 1 and then the longest one, Talk:Caron/Archive 2 — aimed at establishing "hacek" (or "háček"), rather than "caron", as the "official" main title header of English Wikipedia's entry for this diacritic, ended as lengthy "no consensus" to move, rather than as ringing endorsements for the use of "caron". —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 15:52, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Unicode uses the name caron, exclusively. There are characters called Caron, Latin Capital Letter C with Caron, Combining Caron, etc. See the Unicode Character Table. Surfo (talk) 16:50, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
 * According to this link, Unicode Character Table lists "hacek" alongside "Caron". —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 22:47, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
 * "COMBINING HACEK" (U+02C7; but not "HÁČEK") was used in Unicode version 1 only (1993; "old name"), but completely abandoned in version 2 (eg, current names are like ). The old name is not even kept as alias, and is not identifying. Anyway, Unicode is following not defining in this topic (it only defines code-point to graph-whatever-it-is-named), and we'd better not take it by itself as deciding. That said, it could be worth exploring the reasoning by Unicode for this choice. A more true source could be found in typographic history sources. Still, such a title change is not part of this proposal. -DePiep (talk) 05:25, 23 April 2022 (UTC)


 * Neutral I agree with the oppose arguments, but there might still not be a primary topic. User:力 (powera, π,  ν ) 01:04, 23 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose per Uanfala's statistics, no evidence for no primary topic. Nardog (talk) 02:55, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

"˅" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect ˅ and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 May 8 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. 1234qwer1234qwer4 11:26, 8 May 2022 (UTC)