Talk:Ceratopsia

Untitled
To all the anons who keep contributing to this article: I don't care whether Ceratopsia or Ceratopia is used, but there should be only ONE article discussing them, not two. So be a little bit responsible and focus on one article. This article should be locked. Phlebas 23:58, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Please vote:

Ceratopia:


 * --MWAK 13:51, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Ceratopsia:


 * CFLeon 22:20, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
 * This is sort of an important issue that hasn't seen any play since last year... i'm gonig to take it over for discussion at Wikiproject dinosaurs.Dinoguy2 00:09, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

No brainer really - historically there have been all sorts of guffs in naming plants and animals, misspellings, what is published takes precedence. This is highlighted by the use of greek/latin/aboriginal/amerind/anagrams etc now. Especially with the latter there is no 'correct' syntax so what the author says goes.
 * Cas Liber 11:48, 1 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Considerations of precedence are relevant when a binomial name is attributed to a single concrete object, like a holotype. When higher taxa than the genus implicit in the binomial name, are named, precedence becomes irrelevant. There are no official rules governing the names of taxa above the level of family — and everyone has always called any higher level taxon as it pleased him. If I am at liberty to call the group "Cornufacies" or "XYZ", why am I not free to call them by a correct name?--MWAK (talk) 18:02, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Ceratopia
The full text of Ceratopia, as of my redirect: Ceratopia (ser-a-TOP-ee-ah) or Ceratopsia is a group of herbivorous and possibly omnivorous beaked dinosaurs that evolved during the Cretaceous in what is now Asia, and then spread to North America where they grew in size and developed elaborate horns and neck frills. The horns may have been used for display, defense, and combat with other members of the same species. The frills were probably too fragile for defense, and may have been used for display or thermoregulation

Early members such as Psittacosaurus were bipedal and had very small frills. This group later gave rise to a subgroup, the Coronosauria ("crowned lizards"), which were quadrupedal, much larger, and frequently horned. The coronosaurians include earlier ceratopsids like Protoceratops, and the Ceratopsidae like Centrosaurus and Triceratops.

The paleontologist Othniel Charles Marsh originally named the group "Ceratopsia" in 1890, which has an incorrect Greek ending. While "Ceratopia" is linguistically correct, and thus preferred by many taxonomists; "Ceratopsia" has chronological precedence and is more widely used, probably because of the association with Triceratops. Since no official authority like the ICZN regulates higher level zoological taxa, there is no official answer.

In either case, the name means "horned face", from the Greek keras ("horned") and ops ("face").

Jaws
Personally, I miss some information about the physiology of these dinosaurs. What traits did they have that made them so successful? Duck billed dinsaurs had special jaws which made it possible for them to chew their food. Did ceratopsians had the same kind of jaws too, or even improved versions of them? Since they were some of the last to evolve, they should have some advanced traits lacking in other members of ornitischia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.217.196.189 (talk • contribs) 18:45, 29 June 2006 193.217.196.189

GA review by [[User:Mmoyer|Mmoyer
Wow! This is the best GA nominee I've seen yet. I have no suggestions for improvement, and GA awarded! Good job! Mmoyer 02:41, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Bagaceratops
Bagaceratops appears twice on the cladogram--once under Bagaceratopsidae and then again under Protoceratopsidae. Bagaceratopsidae seems like a no-brainer to me, if this article does accept its validity, except that the Bagaceratops page lists it under Protoceratopsidae... somebody who is a little more knowledgeable in Ceratopsian taxonomy needs to take a look at this. 68.205.68.57 (talk) 12:51, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * For the record, the reason for the discrepancy looks like it's Gobiceratops. The authors of Gobi found it to clade with Baga basally to Proto. Obviously, this was not recovered in the other, earlier cladograms on the page. Gobi is a pretty new find so it's a wait and see game to see if the Gobi+Baga clade is recovered in future studies. What we should do with this, I don't know. Dinoguy2 (talk) 16:44, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Ceratopsian with two nose horns
Is anyone aware of further sources on the Utah Ceratopsian discovered in 2002/announced in 2006? The description given, mentioning two nose horns, makes me think it may be the animal displayed here, at the Royal Tyrrell Museum:, but I can't find any hint of its name. Our article here does not seem to list it, judging by the absence of any Utah Ceratopsians. Should we add it, even without a name?  JN 466  03:32, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
 * It's bound to be one of at least a couple of new genera in press, so it's best to let it be for the moment. J. Spencer (talk) 17:23, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

omnivorous ceratopsians
surely the recent evidence of this topic should be mentioned, psittacosaurus has had bones found in its stomach area, the jaws are like that of an omnivore then a herbivore etc
 * omnivorous Ceratopsians By Mark Mitton —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.79.4.163 (talk) 19:45, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Nope, shouldn't be mentioned yet as, as far as I know, none of it has been officially described or published on. Maybe in a year or two... Dinoguy2 (talk) 21:49, 11 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Along with Quills, this theory should be included since both are realistic and have no evidence against them. The Paleontological world needs to move on from old stereotypes. You just can't ignore the fact that triceratops had an omnivore's jaws. There's no evidence against it. Also, bones have been found in the stomachs of many ceratopsians. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.159.176.213 (talk) 08:54, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It's unpublished informed speculation at this point. See No original research. Also, which ceratopsians have bones in their gut contents?  All I can find is the reference to one possible Psittacosaurus at Mark Witton's site.  Provided that the report he's thinking of is accurate (not misinterpreted/misidentified, overblown, or a taphonomic artifact), this is not many ceratopsians, nor is it honestly necessarily compelling for the rest of the group. J. Spencer (talk) 14:47, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Bones have been found in the stomach of Pachyrhinosaurus, Pachyrhinosaurus was also found to have quills, it hasn't been officially published yet, but that will be a matter of time, and since those two were omnivores and had quills, saying the rest didn't would be arguring for a unique specialization that you have no proof for! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.65.88.78 (talk) 15:31, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Point me to the papers with this new information on Pachyrhinosaurus, please. J. Spencer (talk) 15:43, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Look, I agree that ceratopsians were probably at least partially omnivorous. The psittacosaur gut contents don't lie. They also don't exist for the purposes of an encyclopedia because they haven't been officially announced and published. Wikipedia, and all encyclopedias, must by their nature always be one step behind the bleeding edge of the science because the standards are too high to allow internet rumors as valid sources. If you don't like it this isn't the web site for you.
 * I'd also like to know where you're getting this info about bones in ceratopsian stomach contents other than Psittacosaurus.
 * Not to violate Assume Good Faith, but I'd also look at this editor's recent act of wholesale racist vandalism to the Nigersaurus article as a testament to his level of scientific thinking and willingness to improve Wikipedia. Dinoguy2 (talk) 17:28, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Greek of 'Ceratopsia'
Actually, while "Ceratopsia" is incorrect Attic Greek, it is correct from the Koine onwards, meaning "horned visage", from "opsis". So the debate is, from my point of view, pointless. After all, newer forms of Greek have often been used for scientific terms (sometimes with comic effect, e.g. "oligopsony"). Causantin (talk) 08:33, 28 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Since it's derived from Ceratops and not from "Ceratopsis" it's still incorrect. 144.178.207.62 (talk) 09:54, 3 November 2021 (UTC)

We should include a mention of the clade Cerapoda in this article.
We should include a mention of the clade Cerapoda in this article.

It would probably be better if someone more knowledgeable than myself did this. Thanks.

-- 186.221.136.197 (talk) 12:49, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

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Use of Ceratopsomorpha in Article
Ceratopsomorpha was named in 1998 in the description of Zuniceratops, to describe a clade made up of Zuniceratops, Turanoceratops and Ceratopsia. This grouping is supported in most cladistic analysises since, but has only been used as a name twice, once in 2010 and another time in 2013. Should we still use the term. I personally believe we should. Logosvenator wikiensis (talk) 17:11, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

(All) Realated To Rhinos
Ceratopsians are Actually Related To Rhinos. Every Entire Species Of Ceratopsians Are Definitely Related To Rhinos And Also Have Have The Same Sound Of a Elephant. (Except The Earliest Known Species That Is The Only Reptile-Like Hebvione That Looks Almost Or Clearly Nothing Like Rhinos Is “Yinlong Downsi”.) 2601:406:5000:BE80:CC9E:18B6:9BCB:18A7 (talk) 06:16, 8 February 2023 (UTC)