Talk:Chanyu

About the "Chun-Wei"
This assertion that "Chun-Wei is a legenday king" is from “史記匈奴傳” which said “The ancestor of Xiongnu is a descendant of some king of the Xia, who named Chun-Wei（淳維）.” see | here. I don't know whether it's true or not and I cannot prove it either, but it really comes from somewhere and I guess one may still claim Chunwei (sunni?) as a “legendary king”.
 * If the title Chanyu was really pronounced as something like Dargwa, it appears to be the same word as Chunwei. The latter one, according to Wiktionary, was likely pronounced like Dürgüj， just like the common Yeniseian vowel pronunciation comparing with the Xiongnu one, which was formerly shown by Vovin.--17lcxdudu 15:23, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

shanyu or chanyu
someone needs to clean this page up. the reconstructed pronunciations seem to be of old chinese, of some relation presumably to xiongnu, but there's bound to be some difference. anyway, the attributions need to be made and the nature of the reconstruction indicated. my dictionary 國語辭典 says chanyu, not shanyu. and on the net a source that seems authoritative to me (chinaknowledge.de) says chanyu not shanyu. the initial of 單 is clearly not sh in old chinese. it may be a rare literary reading. and the chinese version of this page says chanyu, not shanyu!


 * Google book search shows 58 results for Shanyu, 15 result for Chanyu in the context of Xiongnu.--Skyfiler 08:21, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

This article appears to be an original research/translation
It should be redirected to Shan-yü. The list of Hsiung-nu rulers should be in a separate list or in the proper history article. There appear so be quite a few of these articles self-translated from Chinese not including verifiable sources.--Nostradamus1 (talk) 04:30, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

RE: the Romanization of the names
They should all be Pinyin as it is official Romanization system for both the PRC and ROC, the two major Chinese speaking states. Otherwise it will cause confusion as half of the names are romanized using Wade-Giles while the other half are Pinyin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by RuthlessOne (talk • contribs) 12:08, 17 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I totally agree with the one exception that, if Wade-Giles is used in a quotation, it should be left as is. John Hill (talk) 05:51, 13 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Well? Should we start converting the names to Pinyin? I support that, though Wades-Giles does have its value in that most sources discussing the chanyu use the Wades-Giles versions. --Entropy Rising (talk) 00:10, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Chanyu is preferable to Shanyu
I have been through the article and changed the title 'Shanyu' to 'Chanyu' throughout. The reason is that the Guangyun, a dictionary compiled in 601 CE by Lu Fayan, and completed during the Song dynasty, gives three readings for the first character of this title [i.e. Chanyu]: dan, chan, and shan. The form chan is specifically mentioned as being used in the Xiongnu title Chanyu. The reading shan is used as a place or family name; the reading dan means 'single' or 'alone.' See, for example: "Early Chinese Settlement Policies towards the Nomads." Pan Yihong. Asia Major, 3rd series, Vol. V, Part 2, (1992), p. 42, n. 2; Lexicon of Reconstructed Pronunciation in Early Middle Chinese, Late Middle Chinese and Early Mandarin, p. 48. (1991). Edwin G. Pulleyblank. UBC Press. Vancouver; Indo-Scythian Studies being Khotanese Texts Volume VII, p. 32. H. W. Bailey. Cambridge University Press.
 * The old Chinese is possibly dar wa, according to Chinese Wikipedia. --虞海 (Yú Hǎi) (talk) 06:17, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Huhanye revolt
Huhanye was a splinter leader, he took a part of his wing under protection of China, it was a decidedly minority fraction. The lawful Chanyu was Zhizhi/Jiji, he headed all remaining tribes and withstood assaults for two decades. Huhanye is better known in the Chinese annals because he was cooperating with China, and Jiji was on the defensive. The independent Northern Huns remained a main body of the state and of the people, they still united peoples from Kirgiz to Syrdarya, and all Tele tribes were in the Northern Hun confederation. I suggest that in the table, Huhanye and Jiji should be switched, and the 2 lines of the Southern Chanyus and Northern Chanyus depicted as separate lines. Barefact (talk) 17:23, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
 * See Xiongnu, First Civil War section for an account of this (from Yap's translation of the Zizhitongjian). Benjamin Trovato (talk) 00:14, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Theory: Chanyu = Yabgu?
Chengli Gutu Chanyu (Ch'engli ku-t'u shanyu) = Tengri kut-ı Yabgu = Tanrıkutu Yabgu


 * source: "Hunların Dili" (by Talat Tekin) = "The language of the Xiongnu people" He wrote: yabgu/cabgu/d'abgu/dian-giwo/shanyu/chanyu Böri (talk) 13:01, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Tengri Kudu Zenghi (Heaven's son immense)
Another title of the Chanyu.

http://books.google.com/books?id=fjoPAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA387#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=7xiAAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA58&dq=Tengri+kudu&hl=en&sa=X&ei=QXoMUd7CIOev0AGik4E4&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Tengri%20kudu&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=77NIAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA58&dq=Tengri+kudu&hl=en&sa=X&ei=QXoMUd7CIOev0AGik4E4&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Tengri%20kudu&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=1emXJemW-jgC&pg=PT1914&dq=Tengri+kudu&hl=en&sa=X&ei=QXoMUd7CIOev0AGik4E4&ved=0CD8Q6AEwAg

http://books.google.com/books?id=5FHVAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA141&dq=Tengri+kudu&hl=en&sa=X&ei=QXoMUd7CIOev0AGik4E4&ved=0CEQQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=Tengri%20kudu&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=sr8UAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA17&dq=Tengri+kudu&hl=en&sa=X&ei=QXoMUd7CIOev0AGik4E4&ved=0CEwQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=Tengri%20kudu&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=GXBCAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA387&dq=Tengri+kudu&hl=en&sa=X&ei=QXoMUd7CIOev0AGik4E4&ved=0CFIQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=Tengri%20kudu&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=0EoaAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA141&dq=Tengri+kudu&hl=en&sa=X&ei=QXoMUd7CIOev0AGik4E4&ved=0CFcQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=Tengri%20kudu&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=OTHXJkov9j8C&pg=PA22&dq=Tengri+kudu&hl=en&sa=X&ei=QXoMUd7CIOev0AGik4E4&ved=0CF4Q6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=Tengri%20kudu&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=O38uPl_x5NgC&pg=PA86&dq=Tengri+kudu&hl=en&sa=X&ei=QXoMUd7CIOev0AGik4E4&ved=0CGQQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=Tengri%20kudu&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=relhy4FDfNUC&pg=PA201&dq=Tengri+kudu&hl=en&sa=X&ei=L4YMUcebDcm40gGA_4CoBg&ved=0CDQQ6AEwATgK#v=onepage&q=Tengri%20kudu&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=vcwWAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA44&dq=Tengri+kudu&hl=en&sa=X&ei=L4YMUcebDcm40gGA_4CoBg&ved=0CE0Q6AEwBjgK#v=onepage&q=Tengri%20kudu&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=Kj4YAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA408&dq=Tengri+kudu&hl=en&sa=X&ei=hYYMUcrdMsLI0QH49YD4DQ&ved=0CDkQ6AEwAjgU#v=onepage&q=Tengri%20kudu&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=lYg5QmRlF7YC&pg=PA105&dq=Tengri+kudu&hl=en&sa=X&ei=L4YMUcebDcm40gGA_4CoBg&ved=0CFIQ6AEwBzgK#v=onepage&q=Tengri%20kudu&f=false

Rajmaan (talk) 03:27, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

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