Talk:Charles Blair Macdonald

Deleted and inaccurate information about Shinnecock
User talk:Clindberg deletedmy recent edit which had a referenced about MacDonald starting National after leaving Shinnecock because of its policy of permitting a black player to participate in the Open. The referenced [http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CE2DC1739F937A25755C0A964958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all New York Times article says:


 * One player in that Open was a young black man named John Shippen, who worked at the course, Mr. Keene said. He was allowed to play because of his skill, leading at least one golfer, Charles D. MacDonald, to drop out. MacDonald went on to found the National Golf Links in 1912.

In addition to deleting this important aspect, it should be noted that the description of MacDonald's relationship with Shinnecock is totally inaccurate. He didn't search Long Island for the course. He in fact is among the designers of Shinnecock and when he left he just crossed the street. BTW I am not attributing the incorrect Shinnecock info to C.  Americasroof (talk) 05:24, 17 December 2008 (UTC)


 * The National Golf Links opened in 1909 (construction started even earlier... 1906/7 I think), not 1912. The above sentence just means that Macdonald withdrew from the U.S. Open tournament, not the club (if that was the 1896 Open, Macdonald was still with the Chicago Golf Club and not Shinnecock).  Macdonald (and more Seth Raynor) only later redesigned Shinnecock, in 1916 I believe (the original was designed by Willie Dunn), and the course was completely redone by William S. Flynn in 1931 (which is basically the current layout).   The NY Times article is incorrect in a couple of its particulars, and the inference that the Golf Links was created as a result is completely wrong as far as I can tell (and is not stated in the article). The "searched Long Island" bit was taken from this page: he stumped around eastern Long Island in search for a site that would allow him to capture the playing qualities of the most famous holes that he had seen overseas.   The dropping out of the Open may be something to mention, but maybe it is best on the Shinnecock article.  Carl Lindberg (talk) 05:59, 17 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your eagle eye reading of the source. I will be back to make some other modifications (he did in fact design part of Shinnecock and is buried in Southampton) and make a more accurate description of his relationship with Shippen and Shinnecock.  I was kind of grouchy last night after finding the entire history of the Shinnecock article was a copyvio.  And I had started out merely to start an article on the Atlantic Golf Course relationship to Bernard Madoff.  Thanks again for your patience. Americasroof (talk) 14:41, 17 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Looks like you found the (much fuller) story here. All the other players threatened to pull out, but USGA president Havemeyer then threatened to let that happen and hold the tournament with just Shippen and Bunn (another Shinnecock Indian), at which point they all backed down.  Macdonald not only played but was paired with Shippen.  He did withdraw halfway through, but it was only because of his own poor play.  He walked the second round and kept score for Shippen.  Shippen played in four more Opens (last in 1913).  Based on that... this should all go in the 1896 U.S. Open Golf Championship and John Shippen articles more than here.  There is very little particular to Macdonald about it.  Carl Lindberg (talk) 04:54, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

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