Talk:Charles Grafton Page

Untitled
I am commencing a major edit to the Charles Grafton Page entry. Many biographical facts posted there are in error. The discussion of his experimental contributions omits much. The section on controversies is inaccurate. I will begin to make these revisions. Anemonella (talk) 16:00, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Language
"Having eight siblings, four of each gender." Four of each gender would presuppose at least 12 siblings (masculine, feminine, neuter)! Or do you mean four of each sex? Gender tends to refer to social and cultural differences while sex refers to biological ones. Our prudish translations easily lead to nonsense. Chrysippo (talk) 14:45, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Source checking
Per recent discussions about sourcing at ANI for articles nominated by Doug Coldwell, and a conversation on Doug's talk page, I am going to check sourcing for some articles Doug nominated that I recently promoted to GA. I don't have access to some of the offline sources but do have access to some material through the Wikipedia Library.
 * Sources I can't access: Post 1976, Malone 1834, Cavicchi 2008.

Sections checked:
 * Early family life: no issues found.
 * Mid life and education:
 * "studied medicine with Dr A. L. Peirson and the Harvard Medical School receiving the degree of Medical Doctor in 1836" in the article; the source has "studied medicine with Dr. A. L. Perison of Salem, and the Harvard Medical School", receiving the degree of M.D. in 1836". This is too close to the original.
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 18:27, 7 September 2022 (UTC)


 * "At Harvard College he studied chemistry under Professor John White Webster": not in the given source.
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 18:27, 7 September 2022 (UTC)


 * "After receiving a medical degree from Harvard Medical School in 1836, he practiced medicine and gave public lectures on chemistry in Salem": this was during his studies, not after he received his degree, and the source does not say it was a public lecture.
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 18:27, 7 September 2022 (UTC)


 * "In 1838 he went to Virginia and practiced his new medical profession for two years". The source has "In 1838 he went to Virginia and practised his profession two years", so this is too close to the original.
 * ✅ --Doug Coldwell (talk) 18:27, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

These problems relate to about half of the text I've been able to check. That's to say, most of the article material in these three sections is inaccessible to me because I don't have access to the sources. Of the remaining material, about half has problems. This is unacceptably bad. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 01:50, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Career
 * "Page was a patent agent in 1853, 1854, and 1855 handling up to 50 successful patents a year. He processed patents for Eben Norton Horsford, a Harvard professor; Walter Hunt, inventor of the safety pin and sewing machine; Birdsill Holly, various mechanical devices; Theodore Weed, sewing machine mechanisms; Thomson Newbury, machine-tool attachments; John North, paper folding machines; Lysander Button, fire engine hydraulic paraphernalia with Robert Blake, who together created in 1860 the firm 'Button and Blake' that dominated the fire engine business in the United States for several years". Almost none of this is in the source given, which doesn't mention Page at all, and talks about Button and Blake.
 * ✅ - Above is on page 159 of Post (1976). Referenced paragraph accordingly.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 19:05, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Continuing:
 * Self-inductive coil
 * "While still a medical student at Harvard, Page conducted a ground-breaking experiment which demonstrated the presence of electricity in an arrangement of a spiral conductor that no one had tried before. His experiment was a response to a short paper by Joseph Henry, announcing that a strong electric shock was obtained from a ribbon strip of copper, spiraled up between fabric insulation, at the moment when battery current stopped running in this conductor. These strong shocks manifested the electrical property of self-inductance which Faraday had identified in researches published prior to Henry's publication": the citation is confusing because it gives sections (and does so incorrectly in the bibliography) instead of pages. The citation is to a paper of Faraday's describing this phenomenon and supports almost none of the text in the article, and doesn't mention Page.
 * ✅ - Paragraph is referenced to Cavicchi (2008), page 893 -> which is at this link that shows pages 884-907 of article Charles Grafton Page's Experiment with a Spiral Conductor in "Technology and Culture" journal. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 19:33, 7 September 2022 (UTC)


 * "building on his [Faraday's] own landmark discovery of electromagnetic induction": cited to an 1831 paper which does indeed seem to cover induction. This is probably OK, though a secondary source would be a much better way to cite this.
 * "Page seemed to have been unaware of the background of Faraday's research and the analysis that had inspired Henry to write his paper. Page had done his own experimentation to come to his own conclusions": the source has "He was unaware of the background in Faraday's research that had inspired Henry or of Faraday's analysis of the currents. Thus, he worked in an environment of the unknown, where what he did, observed, and wondered about were key to developing his experience." This is insufficiently rephrased.
 * ✅ Reworded to-> Page was not aware of Faraday's research on electricity that had inspired Henry to write his paper.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 19:51, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

I'm unable to check much of the next two paragraphs.
 * ✅ - The next two paragraphs are referenced to Cavicchi (2005) Sparks, shocks and voltage traces as windows into experience: The spiraled conductor and star wheel interrupter of Charles Grafton Page pages 123-136. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 20:24, 7 September 2022 (UTC)


 * "Crucial to Page's research with the spiral conductor was his capacity to do innovating experimenting with good results. Page did not provide an explanation for what he found, yet he extended and amplified the apparatus and its unexpected behaviors": sourced to "Through these pursuits, Page developed the expertise and workspace that provided the requisite resources for his groundbreaking experiments." This is OK for the first half, but I don't see anything in the cited page to support the second half.
 * I'm confused -> what words do you mean by "second half"? --Doug Coldwell (talk) 20:36, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Stopping there for now. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 02:46, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Tried to resolve the above issues as best as I could. Can you take a look at my work to see if it is satisfactory. Thanks.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 20:36, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Doug, I'll try to look at your edits, but will probably finish going through the article first, and that may not be tonight. Thanks for taking a crack at this. Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 21:18, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Copyright contributor investigation and Good article reassessment
This article is part of Contributor copyright investigations/20210315 and the Good article (GA) drive to reassess and potentially delist over 200 GAs that might contain copyright and other problems. An AN discussion closed with consensus to delist this group of articles en masse, unless a reviewer opens an independent review and can vouch for/verify content of all sources. Please review Good article reassessment/February 2023 for further information about the GA status of this article, the timeline and process for delisting, and suggestions for improvements. Questions or comments can be made at the project talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 09:36, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed
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