Talk:Chaz Bono/Archive 2

An actor? Not really
The IMDB link has Bono's work listed solely as a few things where she performed as herself (or if you prefer, "he" and "himself" respectively). Bono is not an actor. I propose we remove it from under "Occupations" and "Known for." Shiggity (talk) 02:55, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
 * As a matter of fact, I'm just going to do it. Feel free to respond if you disagree.  Shiggity (talk) 02:56, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Even if he only acts a bit, if he was ever paid or volunteered to be an actor/actress then we should include it. It's not our job to determine whether s/he was a good actor/ress just like we don't need to commit original research and state that Snoop Doggy Dog was an average, mediocre, or excellent employee when he worked at Lucky's, just that he did at one point.Bipalabras (talk) 23:38, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

James Franco has been paid to work for McDonalds. We don't list him as a fast food employee. Things get very silly if we list Bono and everyone as things which they may have done briefly.Sue De Nimes (talk) 08:38, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Transition or Gender transition?
A new editor changed the title of that section. What you you folks think is the proper title of that section? Bearian (talk) 13:34, 21 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Gender is psychological sex, you cannot transition from your psychological sex back to your psychological sex through gender reassignment surgery or hormone treatments or simple natural "sex change" (assuming a non-operative cultural third gender). So you see there is no transition between genders occurring and that is inaccurate to state. It is a sexual transition but no trans person states it that way, besides some transitions are only "partial" or social/cultural not operative. Therefore and since trans people self-referentially and in gender studies/transgender studies the proper academic term and proper self-referential term is transition, you can check Wiktionary on this and this is well cited use, we must remain in using transition not the misleading and for not all but many trans people the offensive and inaccurate "gender transition" ("GT"). We must be clear on Wikipedia give a non-bias analysis of the sources and of the trans diaspora and furthermore not commit any original research, "GT" is simply a made up term, and it does not even meet the basic requirements of a proto-neologism, needless to say we avoid neologisms at all costs here because they are unlikely to be broadly understood by the readers here.Bipalabras (talk) 20:46, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Note: This IP changed the heading back to "Transition." I offer no opinion on what Bipalabras stated above, except that the heading simply stating "Transition" is ambiguous. Then again, editors will likely know what the section is about from reading the WP:Lead of the article, and, of course, once they read the section. Flyer22 (talk) 21:25, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

History
Why does this article's history have so many striked-out edits?? Georgia guy (talk) 00:30, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Because it's full of gross personal attacks by various haters (probably the same one or two that just keep coming back for more) These have been removed per policy - A l is o n  ❤ 00:36, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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MoS Gender Identity Guidelines – birthname, etc
The MoS gender identity guidelines section on retroactivity (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Gender_identity#Retroactivity) states that chosen names, pronouns, and other terminology in keeping with a person's current gender identity, should be used even in reference to events preceding the individual's transition or legal name change (except in specific circumstances, such as the individual publicly stating they should be referred to by their birth name and related terms when discussing the period before their transition). The subsequent section, "Common name", also provides relevant instructions. It basically states that chosen names should, generally speaking, be promptly updated and used in virtually all circumstances, though the birth name should be kept as a re-direct if it is well-known.

I believe the following are violations of the guidelines referenced above:
 * The bolded inclusion of his birth name in the introductory sentence
 * The reference to his birth name in the sidebar
 * The caption of the photo in the "Early life" section
 * The description of his acting role as "herself" in the first two television credits in the "Filmography" section

I don't necessarily take issue with "credited as [birth name]" in certain parts of Bono's filmography, but claiming he played "herself" is a violation of the MoS, and a potential point of confusion for readers. Similarly, Bono's quote in the section on LGBT activism about how coming out as a lesbian provided him (at the time) with "affirmation as a lesbian, as a woman, and as an individual", and Cher's (paraphrased) quote that she was "the proud mother of a lesbian daughter" is not a violation because of the specific circumstances of those quotes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ihhavens (talk • contribs) 17:09, 27 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Ihhavens, once again you are wrong. I state "once again" because judging by this, this and this, it looks like you have edited as an IP and as a different registered account. Do keep in mind the WP:Socking policy.


 * In the case of people who were well known by their birth names before transition, as is the case for Chelsea Manning, Caitlyn Jenner, and Chaz Bono, we do include their birth names. MOS:GENDERID, which is an official guideline, does not support removing the previous names of transgender people. In fact, it states, "The MoS does not specify when and how to present former names, or whether to use the former or present name first." What you are pointing to is a WP:Essay. Our essays are not the same as WP:Policies and guidelines. They do not have authoritative weight. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 05:10, 29 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Just a note that MOS:GENDERID has been properly updated by removing that sentence as MOS:BIRTHNAME has "In the case of transgender and non-binary people, birth names should be included in the lead sentence only when the person was notable prior to coming out." --Neil N  talk to me 16:07, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

Feedback: Chaz Bono
For a work in progress, I believe you have a good amount of information. You seem to have elaborated most parts of the article in regards to Chaz Bono. I really appreciate the fact that you added visuals such as the tables to show the timeline of his life. Overall, good work. Cacebes (talk) 06:48, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Please note that this article has been edited collaboratively over seventeen years by literally hundreds of editors, so in referring to "you" implicitly as the author of the article, you should understand that no single editor is responsible for what you find here. Also that every Wikipedia article is, by definition and perennially, a "work in progress".  General Ization  Talk  15:51, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 30 August 2021 and 10 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Ossa1107.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 08:44, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 22 August 2019 and 17 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): MiriaamMP. Peer reviewers: Zander62015, Sfischer2017, Theinbetween909, Dublinmay123, JALChav.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 08:44, 18 January 2022 (UTC)