Talk:Chelsea F.C. in international football

Unnecessary recent additions with tables and colours
Why exactly do we need this huge table with a full head-to-head record against every single team, which is clearly WP:NOSTATS violation, if the standard format at good/featured articles is just "by country" and "by competition"? And why exactly do you need green/red colours in those tables, this is just some fancruft which was added for decorative purposes and doesnt improve the article in ANY way, I mean if Chelsea played just 1 match against XyZ team and have won it, then no shit that they have a positive record against this team, why would you need a green background in the table? Snowflake91 (talk) 22:07, 15 February 2022 (UTC)


 * hello. thank you for opening this discussion. 1 - there is no standard templates at WikiProject Football for clubs in international/european competitions and this is the reason why other users adding their contribution. when there will be a standard template for all clubs, then it will have to be respected. until this standard/format will appear, in the present, many clubs have tables with overall statistics, statistics by country, statistics by team, with colours for W/D/L or for positive/neutral/negative balance (ex: FC Bayern Munich in international football, Steaua București in European football, Olympiacos F.C. in European football, etc.). 2 - wikipedia is an open editing platform where all users can add their contribution and you don't have to delete their work from the last months and add your fixed ideas, like you did last night (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chelsea_F.C._in_international_football&action=history). 3 - You are welcome to add your own edits, but before making any important change, please open a discuss on the talk page to find out the opinion of other users or fans. 4 - with the help of the talks, I'm sure we'll get along. 5 - this is my opinion. thank you and have a nice day. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.77.80.77 (talk) 08:34, 16 February 2022 (UTC)


 * If you want to take examples from other articles, you should use the articles that were already reviewed by the community and are "GA" or "FA" standard, and not some fancrufty articles with poor manual of style, like Steaua. Snowflake91  (talk) 10:59, 16 February 2022 (UTC)


 * 1 - you started to change other users edits without discuss this on the talk page to see and find out other users or fans opinions. 2 - who are you to decide what is good and what is not without other users opinions? 3 - there is no standard templates at Wikipedia:WikiProject Football for clubs in international/european competitions and this is the reason why other users adding their contribution. when there will be a standard template for all clubs, then it will have to be respected. 4 - you have taken into account that other users may have different opinions than yours? 5 - disputes are resolved by discussions, not by deleting other users' edits. thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.77.80.151 (talk) 13:09, 16 February 2022 (UTC)


 * Firstly, the "fans" are irrelevant - Wikipedia is not for fans and their opinions are irrelevant, secondly, its YOU who need to seek consensus, as its YOU who is making major changes to the article that was fine for 10 years and no one had any problem with it - you basically added stupid unnecessary colours to all tables + some unsourced crufty H2H statistics tables without posting anything to the talk page first, and now its us that have to discuss it? Nope, its the otherwise - if you want to add it, you need to discuss it first. And thirdly, you reverted all other edits that were fine, like table captions (needed per FL reviews), WP:ACMILAN fixes that I made, wording changes which makes more sense ("This match was played" ---> "The decisive match was played" (per worldfootball.net wording), removed unnecessary "the" before German stadium names), and also fixed other wording that makes no sense, like "wins are equal to losses" (??) which I changed simply to "equal W/L ratio" and stuff like that, and you reverted it all. And by the way, your argument "disputes are resolved by discussions, not by deleting other users' edits" is laughable - its again YOU who is deleting my table which several other GA/FA articles are having (honours table), and then you accuse others of deleting - oh the irony....WP:OWN issues there. And the fact that honours are already in infobox is irrelevant - with the same logic I can say that H2H tables are unneeded, because there are already all h2h matches listed in "Matches" section anyway. Snowflake91  (talk) 13:23, 16 February 2022 (UTC)


 * 1 - how do you know I modified the article in December? do you have strong arguments to sustain your affirmations? 2 - you said that the brighter colours need to be changed and i agreed with you, but i dont understand why you removed some colours in tables, why you removed important information like „Matches in the UEFA Champions League, UEFA Cup / UEFA Europa League, European Cup Winners' Cup / UEFA Cup Winners' Cup, UEFA Super Cup, Inter-Cities Fairs Cup and FIFA Club World Cup, including qualifying rounds”, why you reversed uefa cup / uefa europa league with european cup winners cup / uefa cup winners cup when i told you that europa league is now a tier 2 competition and you modified order of columns in all time top goal scorers table. 3 - you can make edits like table captions, wording changes which makes more sense ("This match was played" ---> "The decisive match was played" (per worldfootball.net wording)), "the" before German stadium names, wording that makes no sense, like "wins are equal to losses", because i agree with you. i have a problem with removing colours, removing important informations or reversing the competitions columns. uefa champions league is a tier 1 competition, europa league is tier 2.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.77.80.151 (talk) 13:41, 16 February 2022 (UTC)


 * Um, because the IP from your IP range and location (Romania) literally added colours and extra tables in December? I checked how the article looked like before December, and it was normal, without extra tables and unnecessary colours, so yeah I know that you have added it. Why I removed colours from the "by competition" table - because its freaking unnecessary and against all logic, thats why...if the colours are somehow acceptable in "by country" and "by club" tables and I didnt remove them, its a total overkill for its usage in that table. There are only 5 competitions listed there, and its pretty obvious from the table if Chelsea have more wins than losses in Club World Cup for example, why would you need to add background colours for this? Just for a decoration with no real purpose? Snowflake91  (talk) 13:55, 16 February 2022 (UTC)


 * i'm not the only romanian user on wikipedia and you dont have strong argument to sustain your affirmations. we cand understand each other, because an edit war affects us and the page. i agree with you, you can remove some colours from the competitions table and making some changes about some words, but i dont agree to remove important informations like „Matches in the UEFA Champions League, UEFA Cup / UEFA Europa League, European Cup Winners' Cup / UEFA Cup Winners' Cup, UEFA Super Cup, Inter-Cities Fairs Cup and FIFA Club World Cup, including qualifying rounds” or changing the order rows in the competitions table or in all time top goal scorer table. uefa champions league is tier 1 and uefa europa league is tier 2 now.


 * I mean its pretty obvious that qualifying round matches are also included in stats since they are also listed in the Matches section, and Chelsea played only four qualifying round matches in its entire history, but okay, if you want it so badly it can stay. Snowflake91  (talk) 14:14, 16 February 2022 (UTC)


 * no, i dont want it so badly. you can remove „Matches in the UEFA Champions League, UEFA Cup / UEFA Europa League, European Cup Winners' Cup / UEFA Cup Winners' Cup, UEFA Super Cup, Inter-Cities Fairs Cup and FIFA Club World Cup, including qualifying rounds” if you want. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.77.80.151 (talk) 14:17, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
 * 1 - please dont add a honours table, because the honours section is under first picture. 2 - please dont change the rows order in the competitions table and the columns order in the all time top goal scorer table. this is my opinion. you are welcome to improve the quality of this page. thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.77.80.151 (talk) 14:25, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
 * what is your opinion about the colours in the country and team tables? it is ok with them or without them? the colours in the matches table are fine. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.77.80.151 (talk) 14:31, 16 February 2022 (UTC)


 * Remove colours in competition table, but keep them everywhere else. Snowflake91  (talk) 14:36, 16 February 2022 (UTC)


 * changed. take a look.


 * If there is someone who is fluent in English - is "the" before Bayern stadium's name in "The final match was played at the Allianz Arena, which is a home stadium of Bayern Munich" needed or not? Snowflake91  (talk) 14:48, 16 February 2022 (UTC)


 * By the way, stat tables are not correct:


 * "By competion" table is 100% correct, and has the following record: 287 games, 155 wins/75 draws/57 defeats / 513:260 GD
 * "By country" table has the following record according to Excel calculations: 285, 155/73/57 /  511:258 GD
 * "By club" table has the following record according to Excel calculations: 281, 151/75/55 /  499:257 GD

So, something is wrongly calculated, and god know which club did you calculated wrongly, could take hours to find out - just the reason why the tables like that should not be made if there is no source. Snowflake91 (talk) 16:20, 16 February 2022 (UTC)


 * tomorrow, i will try to find the problems in both tables and remediate them to be in accord with competitions table. i don't have time to deal with them now. thank you for all your edits and for improving quality of the page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.77.80.151 (talk) 17:08, 16 February 2022 (UTC)


 * The Frankfurt results were missing in the countries table, now only the club table needs to be fixed. Snowflake91  (talk) 17:55, 16 February 2022 (UTC)


 * Club Brugge & Maccabi results were missing, now the table should be correct, it reads 287 / 155W / 75D / 57L / 513:260. Snowflake91  (talk) 19:42, 16 February 2022 (UTC)


 * i noticed that you solved the problem with the two tables (by country and by team) and I want to thank you for doing this instead of me. i really like the latest edits you made. i observed something at the all-time top goal scorer table: the rows in the rank column are merged for the players with the same number of goals, but the rows in the total goals column are not merged. which option do you like the most for the players with the same number of goals, rows merged in both columns or rows merged only in rank column as it is now? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.77.81.146 (talk) 17:19, 17 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I planned to include references for each player next to their goal tally so I removed merged cells, but then I moved refs to the left side, will merge them again now. Snowflake91  (talk) 17:28, 17 February 2022 (UTC)