Talk:Cher/Archive 4

Fair use rationale for File:Cher - All I Really Want To Do.ogg
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-- Marchjuly (talk) 07:19, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for File:Gypys, tramps & thieves.ogg
File:Gypys, tramps & thieves.ogg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a non-free use rationale. Using one of the templates at Non-free use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

-- Marchjuly (talk) 07:23, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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Blatant peacockery in the lead
I frankly have a problem with this sentence in the opening lead: Sometimes called the Goddess of Pop, she has been described as embodying female autonomy in a male-dominated industry. This seems like pretty blatant MoS: Puffery. Who exactly calls her the "Goddess of Pop," and couldn't this be applied to dozens of other female pop artists (e.g. Mariah Carey, Madonna—the list goes on). How does Cher "embody female autonomy in a male-dominated industry," exactly? This seems far too promotional and reaching to situate Cher as a feminist hero rather than a successful musician and actress. Thoughts? --Drown Soda (talk) 02:18, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
 * See Cher. Lordelliott (talk) 13:06, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
 * It still seems like a lopsided way of opening the article, and frankly reads awkwardly, e.g. Sometimes called the Goddess of Pop..... The fact that these things have been said of her is worth noting to some degree, but it being the second sentence you read in the article lead is ill-fitting. --Drown Soda (talk) 23:33, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

Politics
Might want to update the politics section to include mention of the fact she campaigned for Hillary Clinton in 2016. Also, might be worth incorporating this image of her at the 2017 Women's March on Washington. SecretName101 (talk) 06:07, 26 May 2018 (UTC)

Year of divorce from Allman
There seems to be some confusion about the year of the divorce from Allman - some sources say 1978, others 1979. See the Gregg Allman article. On the whole, 1978 seems to be the correct year. Perhaps someone can find a solid citation and reconcile the Cher/Allman article years. Bdushaw (talk) 12:08, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

Is the Armenian Claim Credible?
Article says:
 * Her father, John Sarkisian, was an Armenian-American ...; her mother, Georgia Holt claimed Irish, English, German, and Cherokee ancestry,though Cher is predominantly Armenian."

So Cher's mother has no Armenian, which implies she could not be more than 1/2 Armenian? But then the Father is "Armenian-American." So if that means the father is part Armenian and part non-Armenian American, Cher would be less than 1/2 Armenian in ancestry? Sounds like Cher is predominantly melting pot American. (PeacePeace (talk) 07:02, 28 December 2018 (UTC))

Perhaps she identifies as Armenian more than anything else 😉Nickwilso (talk) 08:15, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Artists inspired by Cher

 * Beyoncé: "I love that in the ’70s Cher and Diana Ross looked like superstars and never played it safe. When they were onstage, they gave you drama — and I love drama[.]" — USA Today http://www.today.com/id/27326595/ns/today-today_entertainment/t/cher-diana-ross-inspire-beyoncs-fashions/#.VC4e3GddU1M
 * Christina Aguilera: "Aguilera cites the first time she saw Cher’s “If I Could Turn back Time” video as a pivotal moment in her life." — http://www.buffalonews.com/gusto/concert-previews/tracing-chers-influence-among-pop-divas-20140417
 * Lady Gaga: "Lady Gaga Studied Cher in 'Moonstruck' for 'A Star Is Born". — https://variety.com/2019/film/news/beyond-words-eric-roth-cher-lady-gaga-1203132278/

Lordelliott (talk) 17:40, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 21:21, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Cher447373737838.jpg

six-decade-long career, Years active 1963–present
On the page, it says "six-decade-long career", however, according to the years active section, "Years active 1963–present", it hasn't been 6 decades yet. It's saying that it's only been 55-6.🤔GOLDIEM J (talk) 05:10, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 August 2019
Please change Cher's main photo on wikipedia to a more up to date one, I have uploaded a much more up to date photo from 2010 at the Golden globes here is the link below:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Cher_2010.jpghttps://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Cher_2010.jpg Benjamincook7a (talk) 20:05, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: The lead image has been the subject of at least one RfC in the past (see here). Might be a good idea to hold another one if you really want it changed. SkyWarrior  21:12, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

father's problems
I don't see the relevance of her father's drug and gambling problems. If this was his biography maybe.--159.2.46.127 (talk) 22:33, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

Occupation
In the occupation section it should say that she is a director since she directed “If These Walls Could Talk” Jessicasliwoski (talk) 22:04, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Here We Go Again Tour
In the section "2018–present", it states Cher's current tour will end on May 6, 2020. However, due to the ongoing coronavirus pandemic, the end date has been rescheduled to December 5, 2020. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.213.238.206 (talk) 17:09, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 June 2020
On occupation it should say that she’s a director because she directed If These Walls Could Talk. 174.131.34.97 (talk) 03:50, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: Because she directed a movie once doesn't make her notable for that. The list was way too long anyway so I trimmed it. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 03:50, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

lede paragraph sources
I noticed the lede paragraph doesnt have any citations for some of the statements, I personally have never heard auto tune being called the cher effect. Thoughts on lack of citations?Eruditess (talk) 22:50, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
 * The lede paragraph is supposed to be a summary of the article. All of the statements in the lede are further discussed and referenced in the article. Right now, this article has exactly 396 citations, so a "lack of citations" doesn't really seem to be a problem. Lordelliott (talk) 00:44, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Quite right, the lead section should ideally be a summary of well-referenced article body text. No references are required if that's the case, and if there are no huge arguments about content.
 * Regarding autotune, I'm an audio engineer and I've definitely heard it called the Cher effect. Also the T-Pain effect. This article confirms the phrase "Cher effect", down in the gray box "Historical Footnote" signed by Matt Bell. Binksternet (talk) 05:02, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

new
First, I will say to Elliott, we (Wikipedians) are thankful you chose to "adopt" an article and make it your pet project, so to speak. This in itself doesn't make your edits extremely accurate or correct however. Kudos and congrats to you for being bilingual. To begin. One of your biggest errors is overusage of commas: see the following link. https://courses.lumenlearning.com/olemiss-writing100/chapter/comma-overuse A good beginning place or jumping-off point would be to see you are using commas too often. I will congratulate you for finding references that talk about Cher. Evidently you have a great appreciation and liking for this topic and similar people.Howdoesitgo1 (talk) 05:55, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
 * would you like to provide diffs of the comma overuse? or perhaps you'd like to fix them yourself? —MelbourneStar ☆ talk 06:12, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Well, the entire article was copy-edited by native English speakers while passing through the good article nomination process. I appreciate your sense of humor, though. Lordelliott (talk) 13:33, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

$180 million for Las Vegas?
Can we agree to change the incorrect figure of $180 million for $60 million? The show made $97 million so it is impossible that Cher was paid $180 million for the residency. StephenN17 (talk) 18:24, 19 March 2021 (UTC)


 * We try to go by reliable sources rather than guesswork. If the source (Vanity Fair) states that "Cher got a reported $60 million a year and a three-year contract for about 200 performances", then we should go exactly by what the source says, which should be "$60 million-per-year deal". Lordelliott (talk) 02:11, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

It's not about guesswork, the original sources all stated $60 million, all Vanity Fair did was write 'per year' which was obviously them not doing their homework and stating incorrect information. I wouldn't call Vanity Fair a reliable source anyway so it should obviously be changed. StephenN17 (talk) 12:37, 20 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Then I would suggest you bring a better source backing up the (overall) $60 million figure. Lordelliott (talk) 17:18, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

Well I did change it before with a different source and you reverted it back. StephenN17 (talk) 17:48, 20 March 2021 (UTC)


 * I did not see the source at the time. Sorry for that. ABC News is indeed a better source than Vanity Fair, so I will be making the changes. :) Lordelliott (talk) 18:05, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

Pedophilia accusations
I cannot seem to find a mention of this whatsoever in the article. I know she never got charged for it. I am not sure where it belongs in the article either

https://web.archive.org/web/20120725131156/http://stadium-arcadium.com/08-04-2012/anthony-kiedis-flair-magazine-italy-march-2012-interview-transcript/red-hot-chili-peppers-news/article17583 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.45.87.10 (talk) 22:56, 8 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Hello. First of all, "stardium-arcadium.com" is not a reliable source by any means. Secondly, this is a (very) mistranslated interview from an Italian magazine. The original account was that she babysat him and he spied her getting changed. This is from his autobiography, Scar Tissue:
 * Around the time my hormones started raging, I had the wonderful experience of being babysat one night by Cher. I was in the eighth grade and still hanging with Sonny and Connie from time to time, and for some reason, they got jammed up, so Cher volunteered to watch me for the night. We camped out in her bedroom, having a heart-to-heart talk for hours on end, really getting to be friends for the first time. After a while, it was time for bed. Because it was a large house and I might get spooked being alone, Cher let me crash on her bed until Sonny and Connie came to pick me up. In my mind, there was a bit of tension—not that I was going to make any moves on this woman, just the idea that I’d be in bed with such a gorgeous creature. But I thought it was okay because we were friends. Then Cher got up to go to the bathroom and get ready for bed. It was dark in the bedroom, but it was light in the bathroom, so I watched her take off her clothes, all the while feigning to be on my way to sleep. There was a woman’s naked body, and it was long and slender and special and just thrilling. Not that I had the wherewithal to want some physical relationship with her, but in my mind, it was a stimulating and semi-innocent moment. After she put on her nightgown, she walked back into the room and got into bed. I remember thinking, “This is not bad, lying next to this beautiful lady.”
 * That's it. Kiedis is not implying he had sex with Cher here as he explicitly talks about having sex with multiple women in detail in his book, including with another older woman in the next paragraph—as you can probably tell, the lady he had sex with was someone different. Hope that clears up the situation for you. Lordelliott (talk) 14:01, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

Cher was working at See's Candies in 1962

 * Cher was working at See's Candies in 1962, when she met Sonny Bono; she quit her job to become his housekeeper.
 * .... 0mtwb9gd5wx (talk) 14:13, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
 * .... 0mtwb9gd5wx (talk) 14:13, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
 * .... 0mtwb9gd5wx (talk) 14:13, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

This article is too large and needs to be trimmed down
This article is far too large and comes off as a puff piece as if written by Cher herself or her PR team.

Why would an article on Cher be larger than an article on WW2? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:8000:5B02:703C:94B4:DBAB:E093:20A4 (talk) 07:31, 31 July 2021 (UTC)
 * We have thousands of articles that deal with highly important subtopics of World War II, so that observation is of little use. Identify the puff with specific quotes, and drop the speculation that Cher herself is editing the article, unless you have some solid evidence for that claim. If you think the article is too large, then identify content thst you believe should be removed or split off into separate articles, and explain why. In other words, do not complain but be productive instead. Cullen328  Let's discuss it  07:42, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

Cher and Sonny's year of marriage
You state in Cher's bio that they were married in 1969, yet in your article state that she was 1/2 of the Sonny and Cher husband and wife team in 1965. Just a little bit of discrepancy there. Tributeartist56 (talk) 05:24, 21 July 2021 (UTC)


 * They legally married in 1969, but had been calling themselves husband and wife ever since 1964—they performed their own unofficial wedding ceremony in a hotel room in Tijuana, Mexico, on October 27, 1964, as stated in the article. Lordelliott (talk) 21:18, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

The marriage date used should be the actual marriage date with a note in the text that they had an unofficial wedding date prior to the marriage date. Whichever you choose, that is what should be used in both pages. Sonny's page and Cher's page are not the same and for accuracy should be changed to reflect the same time(s). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:248:4400:F4F0:8C28:9387:4C64:9054 (talk) 22:38, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 September 2021
Cher was married to Sonny in 1964 2603:8001:BC07:84E3:98B8:EE0E:DD01:6294 (talk) 05:03, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 10:48, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

and Cher?
Consider the following sentence fragment:


 * She became a television personality in the 1970s with her CBS shows The Sonny & Cher Comedy Hour, watched by over 30 million viewers weekly during its three-year run, and Cher.

The final ", and Cher" easily comes across as detritus, some left-over words from somewhere else. Now formatting and linking reveals the message here - that "Cher" refers to the eponymous tv show, but that's easily missed, and it's bad copyediting to rely on wiki markup to convey what we can and should convey using words.

We should reword this to avoid that hanging small sentence fragment at the very end. Now, my attempt at fixing this was reverted, so I invite you to come up with your own suggested solution. Cheers CapnZapp (talk) 18:26, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
 * It's been a week and nobody has come up with anything better. CapnZapp (talk) 07:39, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 December 2021
I have no interest in weighing in on transgender issues but it's confusing as hell when such transitions are retroactively applied. Rewriting history does not benefit anyone and there simply is no history of a young "Chaz" appearing on TV with Sonny and Cher

I can only assume this is why the page was locked but perhaps rewriting it to address this might alleviate the problem. 2001:8004:2731:CE21:D953:71AF:6DC9:1C86 (talk) 02:14, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Also, we generally don't use someone's previous name of they were not notable when using it. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 02:43, 19 December 2021 (UTC)

Her name is also a department of France
I have heard of her name looks similar to the department of France, Cher. I want to move that title Cher to Cher (singer). 2001:448A:11AA:154A:D9BE:9016:9A7:9B71 (talk) 12:59, 8 May 2023 (UTC)


 * "Cher (department)" views over the last 20 days: 679. "Cher" views in the previous 20 days: 302,572. I don't think enough people are searching for Cher, the department of France, to justify changing the name of another article with 400% more visits. Cherfc (talk) 19:56, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

Cherlato and new album
Some maybe should add info and a new section about Cherlato and her Christmas album? 83.233.106.51 (talk) 19:12, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 November 2023
Please add List of legally mononymous people to the See also section (she is on the list). 136.54.106.120 (talk) 00:21, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ Seawolf35 (talk - email) 20:26, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 December 2023
In the following sentence, the text "whvich" appears to be a typo and should be changed to "which":

"A portion of the proceeds was donated to Gender Spectrum, a charity whvich works with LGBTQIA+ children and young people."

Thank you. 71.17.70.65 (talk) 20:02, 1 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Just to add that the above mentioned sentence is located in the second last paragraph of the life and career section. 71.17.70.65 (talk) 20:10, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Pictogram voting wait.svg Already done Tollens (talk) 18:35, 4 December 2023 (UTC)