Talk:Cherry Springs State Park

Astronomical observing
Shouldn't this section be placed under "Recreation"? I don't mean to degrade the status of the section, but from an encyclopedic point of view, the topic fits better there, especially for consistency with other articles about parks. Taking a look at the TOC illustrates this. Of course, it can be stressed that this is an important, perhaps leading, activity in the park. --algocu 20:27, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I think that the activities of the astronomers should be kept seperate from recreation because of it's scientific nature. It is not simply a recreational activity like hiking, hunting, etc., Dincher 04:17, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

GA or FA push
Intersting stuff here. I am not sure about the reliable source. Dincher (talk) 21:49, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I think it is from the quartely magazine "Pennsylvania Recreation & Parks" published by the The Pennsylvania Recreation and Park Society. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 20:00, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Dincher (talk) 21:14, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Rereading the article, it seems to have been written in 2002 from the things it talks about. There was also a State Parks magazine published by the DCNR or its predeccessor(s), but it seems to have stopped published before 2002. I may email the society and see if this is from their publication. As you know, there is a web page for the Woodsmen Show at Cherry Springs here. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 21:25, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for adding the woodsmen bit. Unfortunately I can't access it from work. I am starting on expanding the history section for now. I will move lots of the lumber history over. This Edgcomb guy is pretty interesting. And the path future PA 44 might work out for us too. Dincher (talk) 21:38, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

I know I am jumping the gun here, but I am pretty sure that the history section is up to GA if not FA readiness. With some copy edits of course. There is probably more info out there about the Jersey Shore - Coudersport Turnpike too. I am guess that the Geology and Climate section will be pretty similar to Black Moshannon State Park, but this is just a guess. Wildlife and ecology shouldn't be hard either. Dincher (talk) 14:49, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Agreed, although the history ends at 1950. Maybe move part of the Woodsmen Show into History. Also could add that one picnic pavilion is on the National Register - seehere. I need to write and find the source for the history article. Would you rather work on this first (before Oil Creek)? The park is in the West Branch watershed, so the Native Americans info could be expanded a bit (still in Pine Creek watershed, right next to Sinnemahoning Creek basin). I have two newspaper articles from the Williamsport paper on the Woodsmen Show. Have not yet looked at the New York Times or Wellsboro paper archives. Is there any way your pictures could be larger? Ruhrfisch  &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 00:59, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * The pictures are scans of "real" photos. I doubt that much can be done with them.Dincher (talk) 01:26, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * If you still have the real photos, they could be rescanned at a higher resolution (more dpi). Not sure if I can get there any time soon to get more pics. Not much on FLickr last I checked. It would be nice ot get a star photo taken from the park, Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 02:48, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I checked the New York Times, there is a brief mention of the park and Woodsmen Festival in 1958, twice in 1964 (once in a big article on the Denton Hill Ski area), again in 1966 and 1967 and 1987. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 01:12, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

My thinking is that we should stick with the West Branch watershed parks for now. I will look at the links sometime this weekend. As you know my contributions from home have greatly decreased and might be non-existant soon. Will email you about this. Dincher (talk) 01:24, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * OK, I think the only two Top 20 left in the West Branch are Cherry Springs and Hyner View State Park. I got some more pics there recently and will upload them soon, Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 02:48, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * PS The North Branch has Ricketts Glen State Park. There is also Hickory Run State Park on the Lehigh River. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 02:56, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I found a great New York Times article here and have two more from the Williamsport Sun-Gazette. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 04:40, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * That is a great find. Great info that we hadn't already found. Dincher (talk) 16:25, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Another source on astronomy in the park and its economic impact in Potter County is here (search for "Tim Morey", the author). Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 19:31, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Airport data here and here. ANother airport closing source here Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 05:08, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * FERMATA has done a study of the park in 2004 with recommendations that is here. They have lots of of material on the Pennsylvania Wilds here. The first link has very detailed attendance data for 2003 and some other useful material, including a map of the park before the airport was added to it. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 01:33, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Another NYT ref on only two dark sky parks here Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 12:34, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * USA Today named it one of 10 top places to stargaze in the USA here Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 23:07, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * DCNR commissioned study of lghts near park and propsed windfarm here Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 05:01, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Image question
Any feedback on using these two images of the pavilion built by the CCC in the article like this? If we used these two as a stack, then the other picture of the pavilion would be the third and a bit much. I have pics of the other CCC-built pavilion (much smaller, hexagonal roof on six log columns) and of a CCC-built stone fireplace with some of the apple and pine trees they plated in the background. What do you think? Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 00:08, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I like the pics together like this. Are the other pics up on commons? I quick look doesn't show them.--Dincher (talk) 02:05, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I am uploading the rest of my CSSP pix as we speak - saw you just added a pic to the Susquehannock State Forest article. Am adding a pano there next. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 02:27, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
 * My first choice would probably be File:Cherry Springs State Park Small Pavilion.jpg - it is the only other pavilion in the park I found, was almost certainly CCC built, and provides a visual contrast to the other large pavilion, the fireplace pic is File:Cherry Springs State Park Fireplace.jpg. Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 03:04, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
 * The other picture of the fireplace and trees is on a much larger scale and would not look good as a thumbnail so I did not upload it. There are a few more marginal quality pictures I could upload (sunset but blurred, a few more views of the big pavilion, PA 44 with the pumphouse and tavern, a kiosk near the Astronomy Field), but I think I am done uploading. If you want to see any of these, let me know and I will upload them. Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 03:21, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

I agree with your choices. That's a really small pavilion. Dincher (talk) 10:44, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

More refs

 * 2003 Bemus gets DCNR Volunteer of the Year award Wellsboro paper, 2003 (also has economic impact)
 * 2000 eight parks in one management
 * 2005 park featured in National Geographic Traveler
 * 2007 Environmental award

Miscellany
 * 1982 New park offices ad 1982 Black Mo, Leonard Harrison, 4 others


 * 1925 Cherry Springs Drive public camp

Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 13:37, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Press coverage: Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 20:51, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * USA Today, NY Times, National Geographic, NG Traveler (national)
 * Pittsburgh, Baltimore (reporter's blog), Williamsport, Wellsboro (regional)

Woodsmen refs
Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 14:33, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
 * 12,000 in 1955
 * 1955 largest show in NE US, 3 complete sawmills
 * 15,000 expected 1959
 * record breaking 32,000 in 1962
 * 30,000 in 1965
 * 32,000 in 1965, many turned away
 * 1973, proceeds go to Lumber Museum opposite Denton Hill SP
 * 1979, first woman competitor, ""Largest yet" (no number)
 * 1983, 2 days, 20,000, Lumber museum
 * 1985, 15,000, 2 days
 * 1986 2 days
 * 1987 seminars, films, 1st Queen, 2 days
 * 1987 New management, 2 days - Galeton Rotary sponsor and PA Forestry Assoc. cosponsor
 * 1990 3 days, arena, church in pavilion
 * 1991, 3 days, more on ESPN and Stihl
 * 1991 ESPN Stihl series
 * 1993, 3600 seat arena, church large pavilion, 3 days
 * 1994 3 day, free but donation to park, fee for arena
 * 1998 3 days arena admission
 * 2006 major changes
 * 2008 Sun Gazette

Inflation figures for land purchase prices
The "Public Use Map for Susquehannock State Forest" says the first purchase for the state forest was made in 1901 and that "By 1949, all the major purchases of the forest land had been made at an average cost of $2.50 per acre." Using the Inflation template, $2.50 in 1901 dollars would be $ today, while $2.50 in 1949 dollars would be $ today. Following User:Sasata's suggestion at the FAC for this article, I averaged these two figures ($65 and $23) to get $44 per acre ($109 per ha) in 2009 dollars. Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 14:55, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. It was a very good idea. Dincher (talk) 19:48, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I believe adding the 2024 template or magic word right after the inflation template would set this to update the year automatically. Also, the url embedded in US does not seem to work properly even though the link checker tool does not seem to catch this. I ran into this problem while working on Rhyolite, Nevada, and devised a workaround. The sequence I used is almost unreadable when I try to transcribe it to this page, but you can see it intact, including the reference data, in the first paragraph of the "Boom" section of the Rhyolite article. I referenced the inflation figures to the Consumer Price Index (Estimate 1800-2008, publisher = Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis | date = 2009 | url =http://www.minneapolisfed.org/community_education/teacher/calc/hist1800.cfm  | accessdate = Feb. 25, 2009. A link to an inflation calculator lives in the right-hand column of the page the above url links to. I think the bank probably changed its urls after the inflation-fn template was created. This was one of those "oh, my" problems that took a while to sort out. I suppose it might make equal (or better) sense to update the inflation-fn template, but I didn't know how to do this. Finetooth (talk) 20:18, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks - I have come up with a kludge, if I enter $2.6 for the year 1917, it comes up as $44 in 2009 dollars (before I just typed in the numbers). The kludge will let it be automatically calculated and updated each year. I will tweak things in the article and fix the footnote next. I do not know how to fix the footnote but imagine a note on the template talk page would work. Here is my kludge: $ again, Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 22:51, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * To get $ per ha I used $5 in 1913. Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 23:18, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Milky Way Image
Good article, folks — kudos on the recent FA. I wonder if you might want to be a little more specific with the caption on the lead image, though. I'm confused by the image of the Milky Way as the lead image for a State Park. (Reading the lead makes it clear why it was chosen, but requiring the reader to sift through it in such a state of confusion seems unpalatable.) Scartol  •  Tok  00:22, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * OK, will work on it - unless you have an idea / suggestion? Thanks for the heads up, Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 01:14, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * How about something like Cherry Springs State Park attracts x number of visitors to enjoy dark skies and views like this of the Milky Way. Dincher (talk) 01:39, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The current caption is The Milky Way, seen here in Sagittarius, is bright enough in the park to cast a shadow. Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 01:53, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * How about something like The park is one of the few places in the eastern US where the Milky Way, seen here in Sagittarius, is bright enough to cast a shadow? or should the International Dark Sky Park be in there too? Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 01:58, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * OK, how about The Milky Way, seen here in Sagittarius, is bright enough to cast a shadow in this, the first International Dark Sky Park in the eastern US Is this too long? Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 02:01, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * My vote goes for your last suggestion. Dincher (talk) 02:18, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * OK< being bold I changed it to that - have also asked Scartol to weigh in again. Thanks, Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 02:49, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * My preference would be to have an image of the park itself. If you're really keen on keeping the image, how essential is the bit about the Milky Way being in Sagittarius? Is it possible to word the caption so that some mention of the park comes first? Perhaps something like: Cherry Springs State Park allows visitors to see a shadow of the Milky Way? Scartol  •  Tok  02:51, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

(out)Thanks, how about Cherry Springs State Park's night sky is so dark that the Milky Way casts a shadow in it.? If you know Sagittarius, there is a suddent a-ha moment looking at that picture and seeing the "teapot" that makes you realize how many other stars are visible that are not normally seen, but it does make this a mouthful. Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 03:00, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * OK, I changed it to The sky at Cherry Springs State Park, the first International Dark Sky Park in the eastern US, is so dark that the Milky Way casts a shadow. This is three lines of text on my monitor. Is this better? My thought is that people go tothe park for the view and this is the view - see Hyner View State Park, the lead image there is also not in the park, but is what you see from it. Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 04:03, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that looks much better. I think that will alleviate confusion for the ignorant readers like me. =) Kudos again on the FA. Scartol  •  Tok  17:37, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your help and kind words, Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 00:41, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

(outdent) Is there a source for the Milky Way shadow part? TIA. Also, congrats on the front page and quality of the article. --Tom (talk) 21:38, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * dah, found it. It says "faint" shawdow? Anyways, --Tom (talk) 21:48, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I think the shadow is called "faint" because the light is weak. Perhaps barely perceptible would be a better way to say it. Thanks, Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 00:34, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Panoramic ghost dog
The panoramic photograph near the bottom appears to contain a ghost of a German Shepherd. :-p &lt;&gt;Multi-Xfer&lt;&gt; (talk) 00:17, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes. The ghost dog haunts the star gazers. We didn't have reliable sources to include this. ;)Dincher (talk) 00:36, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * LoL &lt;&gt;Multi-Xfer&lt;&gt; (talk) 00:47, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * If you look carefully the same ghost dog appears in one of the CCC-built pavilion panoramas too - it is said it was the dog of CCC worker, who was crushed by a falling tree so the dog waits at the park for his owner to return... or something like that ;-) Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 01:49, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Good one. Dincher (talk) 01:59, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Only a ghost dog could be in two places at once like that. &lt;&gt;Multi-Xfer&lt;&gt; (talk) 02:11, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Or a canine blessed with the gift of bilocation Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 02:20, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Lead image for this article
Congratulations for having this article featured. It is a nice one. However, it is a bit confusing to have a lead picture that does not show the park. Would someone consider using, for example, the photo with the domes covered by snow, which can be seen currently in the wikipedia main page? Miguel Andrade (talk) 07:06, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks - this is a bit unusual for a lead image, but the rationale has always been that the main reason people come to the park is to see the stars and this is a view of the stars from the park. A similar but somehow less questioned example is the lead image at Hyner View State Park - it is of the view from the park, but what is pictured is nowhere near inside the aprk. Please see above and the peer review too. Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 11:47, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

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