Talk:Chesterfield Canal

Plughole
The plughole story sounds far too like a myth. Apologies if it is true, but it is uncited.--VinceBowdren 17:16, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
 * And almost 2 years later, restored with a ref!! Mayalld (talk) 15:17, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Coo, who would have thought it? --VinceBowdren (talk) 19:17, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The story went international -- Workers Accidentally Pull Plug, Drain Canal in England, American Canals, No. 31, November 1979]; a face ( Bill Thorpe) was put on it by the Workshop Guardian (local paper) Memories of pulling the 'plug' on canal, 02 May 2007. --Taterian (talk) 06:23, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

This section is not accurate. Firstly, the plug doesn't drain the canal - it drains one section of the canal and was designed-in for maintenance purposes by the canal engineers. It didn't form a huge whirlpool - that is an exaggeration - and it drained slowly but steadily over many hours. I was there and observed it. It was not a dramatic event and local people laughed at the maintenance men who seemed to be the only people who didn't know what the plug was. The event was a disaster for the fish in the canal though attempts were made to save some of them. Local people spent quite a lot of time looking through the debris in the bottom of the canal as people had been chucking things into it for 200 years. So the event is historic. The way you described it was not accurate and is typical of the hyperbolic way the press misrepresented what happened. Here is a link to a story that has a picture of the man who pulled it up. https://rojerb.wordpress.com/start-here/questions-and-random-facts/ You should also note that these plugs are designed into other sections and other canals. They are sometimes made of wood and sometimes of metal (eg iron). I think the wooden plugs are a better idea as wood swells when wet so you would get a tight fit. It is curious that the story took off like it did and even weirder that some people disbelieve it, since it is a pretty mundane thing when you think about it - canal designed to drain, workman made a mistake. It might also be a good idea to move this event to something like "Chesterfield Canal in the News" section as it seems a bit lost in The Features section which is a ragbag of random information that needs its structuring improving. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.242.200.217 (talk) 15:13, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

Route map
First attempt up at Template:Chesterfield Canal map. I'll see if I can knock up an icon for a motorway crossing over an unwatered tunnel before adding it to the article; in the meantime, any other edits are welcome. I suspect that we can trim a few locks out without losing any vital information. --VinceBowdren 20:07, 29 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Just noticed - the canal crosses the Idle between Town and West Retford locks. I've never hacked a route map before - perhaps now's my chance to try?! Dcm6000 (talk) 13:04, 15 May 2009 (UTC)


 * over 12 months on - I've swapped the elements around so the map is in the correct order now Dcm6000 (talk) 12:48, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Belk Lane Lock
Whoever's done the map has missed out Belk Lane Lock No.6 at Killamarsh. It's the one which serves as a pond in someones garden, and while I know that it is extreemly unlikely that it will be restored, it should be added until the new cut through/round Killamarsh is made. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.149.61.91 (talk) 00:34, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Belk Lane Lock added. Bob1960evens (talk) 10:50, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

Staveley Section
Added info on works to include new bridges for canal in the Staveley by-pass works and reinstate this next section. Have a photo of new bridge under construction, but needs reducing 1st to post --BulldozerD11 (talk) 22:22, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia can take images up to 20 meg in size. Downsizeing is done by codeing on the actual article.Geni 00:50, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks User:Geni, Did not know images can be so big on here, wikia restricted size when uploaded some there. The whole process is a bit tedious, compared to forums.
 * Added photo to show work underway, no written ref to works, may replace with better image when can get nearer, or of the other bridge thats just started on Hall lane as more accessible.-BulldozerD11 (talk) 11:10, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't IWA magazine have something?Geni 16:44, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Dont know IWA but had a look at Chesterfield Canal Trust web site and found reference to the new works in there. BulldozerD11 (talk) 18:53, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Feeders missing on schematic
There are (at least) two feeders missing:
 * 1) enters just below (west of) Feeder(ooh what a giveaway) lock (Turnerwood 38) fed from the Ryton - the Brincliffe feeder.
 * 2) enters below (west of) Kilton Low lock (52) also fed from the Ryton - the Ryton feeder.

I have no idea how to amend the schematic myself unfortunately.

There's a rather nice (though I say it myself) pic of the Harthill feeder entering the canal at Flickr which might be used.

Some mention might also be made of Thorpe locks: "There are fifteen locks in just over half a mile including four staircase sets where chambers have no intervening stretch of canal" (Chesterfield Canal A Richlow Guide see here for info.) --Roger Bunting (talk) 05:40, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Location
"The Chesterfield Canal is in the north of England" should be amended to refer to the East Midlands. Owen Spencer 23:23, 15 December 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Owen spencer (talk • contribs)
 * Duly amended. Bob1960evens (talk) 16:06, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

External links modified
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Norwood Tunnel not the sixth longest
I have removed the statement that Norwood Tunnel was the sixth longest canal tunnel by the time it collapsed. It was unsourced, and by my estimation, there were more than six that were longer. These are Standedge, Strood, Dudley, Blisworth, Netherton, Harecastle, Sapperton, Lapal and Butterley. There was also the Pensax Tunnel on the never-completed Leominster Canal. This assumes that the length was 2,850 yds, which was the length as quoted when the tunnel was completed. It is often quoted as 3,102 yds, but it is unclear where this length comes from. Bob1960evens (talk) 18:09, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
 * It appears that the length was 2,884 yds, calculated by the Institution of Civil Engineers, published in Skempton (2002) and confirmed in a letter to the Chesterfield Canal Trust, though they admit that 2,880 yds is acceptable because of the limits of accuracy. So that knocks out Brindley's Harecastle Tunnel, but Telford's new, longer, Harecastle Tunnel had been completed by then. Bob1960evens (talk) 08:35, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

Assessment
I have assessed the article against the criteria for B-class. Since it meets all of these requirements, I am uprating it to B-class. Bob1960evens (talk) 10:59, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Suitably referenced, with inline citations
 * Reasonable coverage - no obvious omissions or inaccuracies
 * Defined structure, with adequate lead
 * Reasonably well written for grammar and flow
 * Supporting materials - Infobox, map, images, POI table
 * Appropriately understandable

Missing/incorrect information
I don't want to mess up your route map but please check the following. (1) You have a footbridge missing that links Pelham Road Retford to the main footpath into town through King's Park. On canalplan this is called Pelham Road Bridge but its actual name is Inkerman Bridge. The name is visible on the ironwork of the bridge as you walk from West Retford lock towards the marina. Here is a picture of the bridge with the correct placement. https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/4822462 (2) You have a footbridge missing that crosses the canal after Woodcock's bridge and joins the two parts of the cemetery up - commonly called Cemetery Bridge. See here: https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2664752 (3) You have numbered West Retford Lock incorrectly as 60, it should be 58. (4) Missing from the plan is Retford Marina which was a wharf originally. This is a picture showing Carolgate bridge in background File:Chesterfield canal at Retford - geograph.org.uk - 1637644.jpg (5) Bridges 56,57,58 are missing (see below). Here's Grove Mill bridge, a road bridge https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/5130653 The winding hole (very important) with grove mill bridge in background https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/4049267 Here's Leverton Bridge, a road bridge https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/5130690 Here's hop pole bridge https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/4419706

The correct order should be Cemetery Bridge, Woodcocks Bridge, West Retford lock 58, Idle Aqueduct, Town lock 59 (which has a footbridge bridge across it), Retford Marina/Carolgate wharf (it's known by both names), then Carolgate Bridge 56A (I have never heard it called Budges Bridge???), then a bridge that holds "The New Road" which is commonly called Arlington Way Bridge 56, then Grove Mill Bridge 57, then the winding hole, Leverton Road Bridge 58, then Hop Pole Bridge 59.

I hope this helps. I've tried to make it as clear as possibleSandrinaHatman (talk) 17:21, 12 June 2021 (UTC)
 * , I think is the most prolific contributor to the route diagram, so hopefully he can do the updates. Part of the issue is the related parent project, WikiProject UK Waterways is dormant so nobody is likely to be looking it. I take it your information can be easily sourced from relevant Ordnance Survey maps and other documentation, in addition to the photographic evidence? Ritchie333 (talk)  (cont)  10:01, 29 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Hi and, I'll have a look at the route diagram. Since Wikipedia is not a source suitable for navigating canals, I have never tried to include every single bridge, but rather the most important ones, or ones that are mentioned specifically in the text. There are some route plans on canal articles which include dozens of minor bridges, and they just clutter the whole thing up, but as I say, I'll have a look, and certainly if the numbers are wrong, that needs to be fixed. Bob1960evens (talk) 10:22, 29 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Checking Nicholson's Guide, they have Clayter's Bridge as No 58, Grove Mill Bridge as No 57, No 56A is un-named, and Carolgate Bridge is 56. Using OS maps, Arlington Way was not there in 1972, but was in 1991, so I would have thought that is much more likely to be numbered 56A than Carolgate Bridge, which has been there since at least 1886, and judging by the street plan, probably since the canal opened. I thought Arlington Way Bridge was called Budges Bridge on Canalplan, so that was presumably where it came from, but having now found my way aroung that site, the Canalplan map calls it Arlington Way Bridge, and another linked map calls it Budges Bridge. I think the numbers on the Canalplan map are wrong, since they have 55, 56A, 56, 57, rather than 55, 56, 56A, 57. Neither Nicholson nor Canalplan mention Retford Marina/Carolgate Wharf. Bob1960evens (talk) 11:04, 29 June 2021 (UTC)


 * I think that the reasoning given here - that Carolgate bridge came before Arlington Way bridge is likely correct, but the sources you state (which I checked upon) do indeed give it the other way round as stated. It does seem weird that the older bridge is 56A and the newer bridge 56 but I don't have anyway of verifying that is wrong. The Marina definitely exists and has always existed. It is important because this is where the broad canal narrows and the wharf is where the goods to and from Retford were unloaded. Today it is mainly used by leisure boats and the warehouses are repurposed. I included a picture from geograph above to show. See also this listing by Historic England https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1268509 the crane listed here (grade II listed) is on the wharf. The road running alongside the wharf at the back of the warehouses is called Wharf Road. You can see this on Google. On that road were two pubs both thematically named after the canal - The Ship Inn (still there) and The Anchor (now renamed The Idle Valley Tap). I am just supplying this info so that you can pull out what you need to improve what you have.SandrinaHatman (talk) 11:54, 1 July 2021 (UTC)


 * In nearly every case I know, bridges that were erected after the original bridges had been numbered take a suffix, and follow the bridge without the suffix. So on the Chesterfield, we have 39, 39a, 39b, 40, 40a, 41, 41a, 42; 45, 45a, 45b, 46; 50, 50a, 51; 54, 54a, 55; 56, 56a, 57 (in my Nicholson 2006 Guide); 73, 73a, 74; and 82, 82a, 83. Similarly with locks: the new Boundary Lock at Shireoaks is 41a and comes between 41 and 42. I have no doubt that Carolgate Wharf exists, as I have boated past it, and eaten meals in the Bay Tree opposite. It is just that Nicholson does not bother to mention it, and Wikipedia is all about verifiability. However I have now found it on Canalplan, so have added it to the map. Bob1960evens (talk) 14:12, 5 July 2021 (UTC)