Talk:Child prostitution/Archive 1

rewrite
I have done a substantial rewrite, using solid sources, incorporating appropriate text from original. The reasons for moving the article from 'child prostitute' to 'prostitution of children' are clear from the section on 'terminology'. I trust that this will be acceptable to others interested in the article. Alternatively, please express your views here so that we can debate. Zingi —Preceding undated comment added 16:23, 18 May 2005.
 * This is odd... Zingi had put instead of a date stamp on the above comment, so it was always listing the current date... presumably an error. The comment was actually made June 6 2005.Herostratus 22:40, 27 February 2006 (UTC).
 * Thanks for fixing it. Zingi 11:39, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
 * The comment was actually originally made on "16:23, 18 May 2005" according to the history. I've used undated to subst the original date.  —   pd_THOR  undefined | 19:35, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I can understand not calling the article "child prostitute," but why isn't it called "child prostitution"? Joey Q. McCartney 01:34, 4 March 2006 (UTC). Never mind, I see the reasons. Joey Q. McCartney 02:02, 4 March 2006 (UTC). But an improvement would be something like "Commercial sexual exploitation of children (prostitution)." Article looks good though. Joey Q. McCartney 02:13, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

I can't edit the intro but this sentence, first paragraphe, needs revision: "In most jurisdictions child prostitution is illegal as part of a general prohibition on prostitution." Child prostitution does not become illegal because prostitution is illegal. It should be "Child prostitution is illegal in most jurisdictions and it constitutes a specific offence both in countries where prostitution is permitted and countries where it is prohibitted" Gustave (talk) 11:57, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

Enjo kosai
Contrary to the rumors that many people believe, there is little to suggest that enjo kosai is anything other than a voluntary and conscious decision on the part of the prostitute herself--for this reason alone, it stands as rather unique within the topic. There are similarly rumors to the effect that yakuza abduct women and sell then into prostitution. Granyed that this has been fodder for countless Japanese melodramas, but again, no proof is on display at yer lokul myusee-uhm. ("at your local museum" for those who are new to the English language--see sarcasm) Sweetfreek 02:12, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Accepted. However, it may be viewed as the prostitution of such children by the 'users' or 'partners' of such children. The crux is that it is usually adults who create child prostitution through their demand for children as sexual objects, even if the children 'voluntarily' agree to that because of the financial benefit. Zingi 05:50, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * When we're talking about child prostitution, declaring that it is a 'voluntary and conscious decision' seems very misleading. It implies fault on the part of the victim, which is nonsense because however 'voluntary' the decision - which is both debatable and patently unprovable - it is still the adult, the 'client', taking advantage. Onearmkill (talk) 12:06, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Hoooo boy! Alright, Zingi, I've encountered this one before. But before we go any farther, we(you and I) must establish between ourselves a clear and carefully defined definition of the word "child"... and this task I shall leave to you, because I'm a nice guy. Sweetfreek 02:27, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * 'Child' is defined in international conventions (eg in the Worst Forms of Child Labour Convention of the International Labour Organisation) as a person under 18 years of age. Zingi 11:39, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, in England, you can have sex on film when you're age 16. In Japan, the legal age varies, and until very recently was 12 in Tokyo. I don't know what it is now. IamthatIam 04:04, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, in many countries the age of consent (not for prostitution, where the law is normally stricter) is actually even lower than 16, eg. in Spain it is 13 and in some non-western countries. You can see the exact laws at the map to the right. In general, as one can see, when it comes to sex, a person is considered an adult at an earlier stage than 18 in most countries. --84.210.127.4 (talk) 21:08, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

The whole cause of child prostitution is the USA's (& UK's) wage system which IS slavery but no one thought so. Now we can see USA built everything wrong & was blinded by all the empty free land, which is why we thought building cars, roads, houses & small buildings for wages was right, but it was wrong. Now we can finally see that USA & all nations should have begun working part-time building only massive 100-story live/work/play Tower cities connected to maglev Trains to save lives, save the Earth, & eliminate all the work slavery. It would be easy if we just admit the wage is slavery, & employees are slaves, & corporations are slave plantations. And union strikes are slave rebellions. We can't end child sex trade/prostitution by making it illegal without giving all those children a guaranteed income (RFID) so that taking away their means of making money doesn't leave them to starve. Every person needs an RFID GI. Sundiiiaaa 18:14, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

i would like to subscribe to your newsletterTowers84 07:36, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

content needed
This topic despetdlty needs pictures — Preceding unsigned comment added by 160.36.100.146 (talk • contribs) 01:55, 23 August 2005
 * Definitely! How can we correctly understand the complex issues at hand without reference to pictures of an appropriate selection of scantily-clothed child whores? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 196.207.40.213 (talk) 22:08, 8 January 2007 (UTC).
 * This is highly illegal in the united states - what are you expecting? just the thought is bad enough — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.2.152.148 (talk • contribs) 02:09, 31 May 2007

Wow, what a comment. Is this a bathroom wall or wikipedia? We could of course add pictures of you in handcuffs, being carted off by the FBI. :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by BWCinfo (talk • contribs) 06:50, 9 July 2007

Where is the info on Africa? Does child prostitution there just "go with the territory" and not need to be accounted for? I don't understand such a huge oversight.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.27.136.149 (talk) 20:25, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Intro and other improvements
I rewrote the intro somewhat to to provide a simple generic definition outside of national and international law. I also rewrote the section that talk about teen prostitutes being seen by some as a separate category. The section had a minor NPOV issue in that took the "Convention on the Rights of the Child" definition and implied it was the only acceptable definition. I did some rewording so as to state to be clear that it's the most common definition without stating that other definitions are wrong, from a general standpoint (i.e. outside the law). --Cab88 21:02, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

3% of 106
" “La Strada-Ukraine” in 2001-2003, based on a sample of 106 women being 'trafficked' out of Ukraine found that 3% were under 18" - instead of saying 3%, wouldn't it be 3? - Richardcavell 09:34, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
 * it was 3.18! simple mathematics my dear watson... aussietiger 14:22, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
 * and are you going to take that 0.18 of a person? i hope there's a serious discount. 66.177.213.82 15:14, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

As we should all be aware, extrapolations based on such miniscule numbers are not recommended. We are talking about an estimated 10,000,000 children world wide, and to try to reflect this by quoting 3 out of 106 cases is almost certain to lead to wild inaccuracies, and as such, these figures have no statistical merit.80.111.155.138 (talk) 17:50, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

this pg needs to be reworked
this is confusing, and the subtitles follow in an odd order.. specific info is ify Chrrea 17:50, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Bias
I added a note that this article doesn't seem to be presenting a neutral point of view. I just redid the section on Terminology, and hopefully removed the bias there. But it still exists in other parts of this article.

Wikipedia is intended to be an online encyclopedia that presents verifiable information in an impartial manner. Even if every contributor to an article holds the same point of view, that should not be clear to anyone who reads the article. The article itself should be neutral.

As written, this article implied that everyone who granted sexual favors for profit who was under the age of legal consent was being victimized by an adult who was profiting from their actions. That is not true. For example, school girls selling favors ranging from holding hands to sexual intercourse has been common in Japan, especially in large cities such as Tokyo, but pimping is relatively rare there. Someone may argue that they are still being victimized, but that is an opinion. Frankly, it is also an opinion that anyone who is working for someone else is being victimized. Even if everyone contributing to this article believes they are being victimized, the article itself should remain neutral

I invite others to examine the rest of the article and the section on Terminology, to help remove the bias. IamthatIam 04:53, 10 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Removed bias tag, no sources provided from scholarly academics in fields of sociology or psychology to support this view. Addhoc 09:57, 5 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Bias: I am tempted to remove the links to Andrea Dworkin's audio not that they are not bad but: (A) they dont refer in particular or in general to child prostitution and (B) she is a radical feminist who holds _ALL_ forms of prostitution and pornagraphy inherently exploitative of women. If I see no obejections I will remove them but re-insert them in her biography article perhaps including a link to her bio in the See Also for those that wish to follow this particular line of thought. (I am not a censor!). 220.240.58.190 15:33, 24 April 2007 (UTC)


 * One of the audio links refers to trafficing in general (again not children in general or specifically nor are children mentioned that i remember) but if there is a "trafficking article" I will put the link in there instead... 220.240.58.190 15:36, 24 April 2007 (UTC)


 * DONE! The audio links are already in her article. There are some trafficking article but not specifically sexual and somehow they dont seem to quite fit. 220.240.58.190 15:51, 24 April 2007 (UTC)


 * This article is still biased. It presents child prostitution form an entirely negative point of veiw instead of a neutral point of veiw. 75.129.160.187 11:53, 11 October 2007 (UTC)


 * So you are suggesting we make an article on child prostitution that doesn't view it as negative? Sorry to point this out, it is negative. It is negative simply being a punishable crime all over the earth. Show me a person who doesn't think its negative. There isn't such a source that exists. 71.123.183.173 (talk) 19:56, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Just because you believe that every person is steadfastly opposed to anyone under 18 being a prostitute does not justify a biased article. --74.46.73.31 (talk) 08:15, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

Action to end exploitation
A link to this wikipedia article and an external link (which I reworded to hopefully make it NPOV) have been added. My question is, does this specifically fit this article? It looks like the group covers a lot of ground beyond the scope of this article. Opinions, please! Toyalla 18:59, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

This article is the same as the one on CSEC
Srsly! They're the same topic, so they should be merged. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Awesimo (talk • contribs) 06:53, 19 June 2007

History
Shouldn't there be something about child prostitution in the past, and how our current views have developed ? -- Beardo 13:43, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

"In the People's Republic of China, only prostitution of children under 14 is illegal"
As far as I know, prostitution is illegal in China rgardless of the age, but having sexual contact with a girl under the age of 14 by a male over the age of 14 will be charged with sexual contact with a minor, which is a more serious crime than raping an adult. (In China, the legal age of consent is 14 for girls)

Source: http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%85%92%E7%AB%A5%E8%89%B2%E6%83%85#.E4.B8.AD.E5.9C.8B.E5.A4.A7.E9.99.B8.E7.9A.84.E6.B3.95.E5.BE.8B

http://www.yfzs.gov.cn/gb/info/xsll/shfx/xfx/2005-09/14/2009495180.html

http://www.chinalawedu.com/news/21605/10200/103/2004/7/re4922448341627400284612_126645.htm User:cecikierk 00:56, 8 November 2007

lede image
reduced the thumbnail of the lede image to 110 pixels. This is contrary to the manual of style guideline (MoS), and does not seem to fall under any of the exceptions listed. I don't assume this was done to censor the image, as the editor didn't actually remove the image, but w/o an elabourative edit summary I don't understand the validity of the reduction. Anybody? —  pd_THOR  undefined | 21:12, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Strange. I removed the image sizing specification per my reasoning here, and SqueakBox reverted me saying via edit summary: "rv it was better before". How so? And in consensus with whom and compliance with what? Reading Help:Reverting, MoS, and my comments here doesn't provide any reasoning. I ask again, does anybody to include the involved editor have any input on the matter? —  pd_THOR  undefined | 06:23, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Organized Crime
From my own experience in dealing with the problem of child prostitution in Philippines for some 20 years, and from also being involved in the situation a little in Cambodia and Timor, this trade is nearly always controlled by organized crime and polititions, at least in Asia, cant speak of elsewhere though. Government involvement by corrupt politions in these countries is high. I would suggest we add two detailed sections to this article in more detail, the first being on organized crime in the trade and the second section about corrupt political involvement in the trade. Anyone have any feedback or suggestions on this? Kind RegardsSusanbryce (talk) 23:52, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Please read our verifiable and reliable sources policies and then go for it. Thanks, SqueakBox 00:01, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Breakdown of Countries
We may also want to add a breakdown of each country highlighting some facts, extent, laws, etc. This would make the article very long and its a lot of work, what do people think?Susanbryce (talk) 23:59, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Go for it. Thanks, SqueakBox 00:02, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

ThankYou for your reply SqueakBox. Ill work on a breakdown then of all the countries across asia. Ill leave it up to others on the rest of the world. Kind RegardsSusanbryce (talk) 00:18, 16 February 2008 (UTC)


 * That sounds cool. I await your work with anticipation. I am located in Latin America, another (sadly) relevant area, perhaps we could collaborate afterwards? Best wishes. Thanks, SqueakBox 00:21, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Are you by any chance in Brazil, Im familiar with the fact that a lot of organized crime involved in the child prostitution trade in the Philippines have substantial interests in brazil in this also. Ive had some previous discussions before with another user on what ive established is the asia network is in fact all one crime syndicate, but getting the relevent citations is going to be difficult. I would certainly be interested in working with you on developing a latin america section also. Kind regardsSusanbryce (talk) 00:46, 16 February 2008 (UTC) Susanbryce (talk) 00:46, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Attention squeakbox, before you try to collaborate with Susan Bryce on staistics, you need to take a look at her onlinepetition regarding Angeles City and then "do the maths". You will be able to see from these that every female in Angeles is having sex ten times a day, the average payment works at at less than $2, and the average female resident is at least raped, if not murdered five times a year. There are Lies, Damn Lies and Susan Bryce Statistics. This is a person that I would not believe if she told me she was lying, and calls into question, the integrity of Wikipedia.80.111.155.138 (talk) 17:39, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

Undue weight
The situation of a female being pregnant at the age of ~11 is uncommon. Uncommon enough to be record setting. Putting a record setting situation in an article without adequately explaining its uncommonness, is not giving due weight with reality. Even if it were explicitly stated that the event is extremely uncommon, the image still has no place in the article because the article isn't discussing the rare event of child pregnancy at that age. It would be much more suited in an article like this. The image itself draws an emotional response from the reader in the context of this article making it fallacious in this usage and entirely misleading.

Simply put: one can not neutrally illustrate a topic by one rare exception, no matter the validity of that exception. 高 20:21, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Make note that this is impossible. Simply put: there are no neutral or positive resources. They just don't exist. Its like trying to neutralize the subject that blowing up the earth is bad. 71.123.183.173 (talk) 20:00, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

An amazing television story on teen & preteen prostitution (in USA)
I was watching PBS just now, and, on the TV newsmagazine program NOW, correspondent Maria Hinojosa reported on the prostitution of teen and preteen girls in the Atlanta, GA area. I highly recommend it to anyone concerned about this kind of child sexual abuse. The program, including audio, video, and supporting information, is available at PBS.org. The potential for using the facts and figures cited to improve this and other articles makes this a resource worth checking out. I've done a fair bit of reading regarding this topic, and I was still incredulous at the prevalence of underage prostitution. --SSBohio 01:13, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

84.253.141.63 (talk) 05:11, 5 November 2011 (UTC) After watching this video, I don't understand why in the "extent" part of this article USA is not mentioned. Is it because there is a specific article? If it is not, then it really looks like a bias. In fact the entire extent section seems to only talk about poor countries, and never mention any western one, there including most european countries. Since the mayor of Atlanta say that there are thousands of children taken into prostitution in that city, I think that alone justifies adding USA to the list. More sources can be found dealing with the problem in other european countries.

Children's prostitution (work)
The article defines child prostitution as coerced but admits that some children take part willingly. As "children" of the same ages have willingly participated in prostitution throughout history, a study (article) may be required for that as well. 82.27.229.138 (talk) 17:54, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Germany "Schulmädchen-Strich/Strichjunge"
In Germany it's not called "Schulmädchen-Strich (school girl street prostitution) but "Babystrich". And it is not similar to Enjo kosai "Pocket money prostetution" like stated in the article but mostly drug addiction related or forced upon them by criminals. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.73.91.42 (talk • contribs) 03:14, 1 April 2009

Suspicious statistics
The article says "According to Estes and Weiner, 12 to 14 is the average age of entry into prostitution for girls under 17 years old in the United States while the average age of entry into prostitution is between 11 and 13.[4]" The last statement sounds as if it applies to the general population of prostitutes. (1) This is highly suspicious -- the mean of a right-censored sample can not be higher than a mean of uncensored sample (unless it is the male prostitutes' contribution which seems doubtful) (2) I was not able to find confirming citation in the study cited -- but it is a study of *child* sexual exploitation; hence again a censored sample.

The phrase should be rewritten. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.105.201.149 (talk) 07:09, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

I just read the Estes and Weiner article and I don't see any information statistics about prostitutes who are older than 18. The study is based on self reported information and this statistic (12-14 years old) is from a very small sample size (170 individuals). Also, I am unable to find the numbers "162,000 U.S. homeless youth are child prostitutes (CVE) and that 57,800" anywhere in the report. It would be helpful if the citation linked to the full report rather than the Executive summary and if it included page numbers of where each statistic is reported. —Teacurran (talk) 03:21, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

In addition to the points raised above, we should also be extremely sceptical about the figures relating to Thailand: 200,000 - 800,000. Several years ago someone was asked to give a figure as to the total number of sex-workers in Thailand, and they arrived at 800,000. This figure was later shown to be a massive over-estimate with most studies reckoning 200,000 to 250,000. But yet again, we see the figure of 800,000 being resurrected, only this time it relates to "underage" sex workers. It is difficult to believe that in a country which has 250,000 sex workers, that there will be between 200,000 - 800,000 under-age sex workers.80.111.155.138 (talk) 17:25, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

200,000 children involved in prostitution in Canada seems way too high (compared to the US number given of 100k-300k. There are about 35 million people in Canada and 310 million in the United States and both are similar first-world countries, so it seems unlikely that there are about the same number of children involved given their disparate population figures. GAdam (talk) 02:19, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

This article is riddled with suspicious statistics. The most glaring is the figure of up to 800,000 child prostitutes. There was an attempt several years ago to identify the total number of prostitutes in Thailand, and one estimate was 800,000. If you assume for one second that this figure is correct, and that the figure for 800,000 child prostitutes is also correct, then it follows that every prostitute in Thailand must be under-age. I think not.

However, the figure for 800,000 was challenged by just about everybody, and most people arrived at a consensus that the figure for ALL prostitutes was about 200,000. But if this figure is correct and you take the lower figure for child prostitutes, again you have to come to the conclusion that there are no adult prostitutes working in Thailand. I think anyone with half a brain can conclude that this is not the case. I don't know what the correct figure is but I would doubt that it is 10% of the total and clearly it cannot be 200,000 and especially not 800,000.

Whoever posted these stats might want to read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Thailand#Extent_of-Prostitution. Perhaps most surprising is the consideration of GA status for this, because clkearly these two articles do not support each other46.7.85.68 (talk) 22:17, 28 April 2016 (UTC)

NPOV
I've editted much of the first section to make it more neutral. The resto f the article could do with it too, but I don't have the time. oOver all, it's very (undertandibly) negative toward the topic. 66.43.47.176 (talk) 07:45, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Are you fucking kidding me? I'm removing the neutrality tag.  WLU (t) (c) Wikipedia's rules: simple/complex 01:42, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

This whole article is full of weasel words and American (USA) bias
Child prostitution is not wrong or right. America is the only country where a person could get years in prison for consensual sex with a minor. Wikipedia needs to present this as a neutral issue and not from the insane USA perspective. For instance there are many children that partake in prostitution for discretionary income and most countries do not consider child prostitution a serious crime as opposed to rape. An example of how biased this article is:

"Child prostitution exists in every country, though the problem is most severe in South America and Asia"

This represents a subjective perspective. A more objective way to phrase this is (without using negative connotated words):

"Child prostitution exists in every country, though the ISSUE is most SIGNIFICANT in South America and Asia"

Wikipedia should not represent soley White Christian minority viewpoints. This article needs seriously clean up.

206.193.253.171 (talk) 03:10, 16 October 2013 (UTC)
 * First of all, new comments are supposed to be posted at the bottom of the page, not the top. Secondly, the prostitution of children is illegal under international law. It is illegal in most countries as well (not just the US), and every country has some form of restriction against it. While there is a debate over whether or not adult prostitution should be allowed, the prostitution of children is almost universally condemned, hence it being categorized as under "specific offenses" under the "Sex and the law" template. Finally, this article discusses the forced prostitution and sex trafficking of minors, not just the "children that partake in prostitution for discretionary income", as you put it. --1ST7 (talk) 04:11, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Info on Africa
There needs to be a section added on child prostitution in Africa. I think someone mentioned it above, but it needs to be mentioned again. Also, I agree that there needs to be some acknowledgment of that the statistics used may not have consistent definitions of child prostitution. The terms child prostitute and under aged prostitute seem to be used interchangably and that creates confusion not clarity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.68.231.82 (talk) 15:46, 19 September 2010 (UTC)



This book is cited in the bibliography, but not actually cited in the article. Curly Turkey (gobble) 01:36, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

____

Condition
In the section "Physical and psychological effects", the word "condition" is used to describe people that have been infected with HIV, syphilis, herpes, and tuberculosis, going on to state that "these conditions are often fatal"

This gives to me an impression of something of minor interest, something that can be discarded easily. Those diseases however, are quite severe, and as pointed out, often fatal. Therefore I suggest rewording this and avoiding the use of the word "condition" or any other word/phrase that takes attention away from the fact that these are some of the most horrible diseases known to man. Aethalides (talk) 05:46, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I hadn't thought of it that way, but good point. I've replaced the two uses of the word "condition" with "disease" and "illnesses" respectively. --1ST7 (talk) 06:27, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Formality is nowhere depicted. Although it is one of the biggest reason behind child prostitution. OccultZone (talk) 22:05, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

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List of cities with highest number of child prostitutes
There's a list of countries with the most child prostitutes, but there's no list of the cities with highest number of child prostitutes, which I think is far more important. In India, appearantly, the cities that have the most are Mumbai (Bombay), Delhi, Madras, Calcutta, Hyderabad and Bangalore. See http://www.tclucknow.com/Child%20Prostitution%20in%20India.htm Perhaps the same can be done for the rest of the countries ?

One other thing: perhaps we can mention what countries have actually legalised prostitution, and as such have the city officials registered the present sexworkers in the brothels, found in their red-light districts. Seems a major issue (as any present -illegal- child prostitutes are then also found, at least if the registration is done by policemen on the ground, rather than say the brothel owners themselves), and pretty much the least a country can do in the fight against child prostitution, so should be mentioned in article.

KVDP (talk) 11:48, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131014081624/http://beta.globalmarch.org/worstformsreport/world/zambia.html to http://beta.globalmarch.org/worstformsreport/world/zambia.html

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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 02:02, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

"Underdeveloped countries" or developing countries?
"in undeveloped countries as well as developed" Isn't it the consensus that underdeveloped countries are called developing?--Adûnâi (talk) 21:06, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

Sources and erroneous crediting
Removed the linking of Ronald Flowers to former English footballer Ron Flowers. I don't know how that came to be, because they are two different people, and I think it is good to remember, especially on serious topics, to not immediately link to anyone with the same name.

Footballer was born in 1934, this writer/scholar (Not quite sure which field he works in) in 1956. Just a gentle reminder. 84.238.38.253 (talk) 01:17, 21 April 2018 (UTC)JVTossh

Image
Is it morally right that at the start of the page there is a photograph of a statue that depicts a naked minor being forced into prostitution? This does not sit right with me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.97.126.0 (talk) 00:06, 29 April 2018 (UTC)

The lead/intro section needs clarifying
The lead section, especially the first paragraph could use more clarity. As I understand it, the following is reflects the state of how child prostitution is defined and dealt with law-wise: This all means that basically the lead needs to updated to better reflect that the term child as used child prostitution can have differing means depending on the law and culture. When it says "Child prostitution is prostitution involving a child" we should be make the reader aware that different people/countries may define "child" somewhat differently and thus the term can have different meanings in different countries or among different speakers. Second, not all jurisdiction define anyone the age of 18 as a child prostitute, especially where the AOC is less then 18. It is also needs to be clear that some states/countries ban child prostitution under separate laws, especially if adult prostitution is legal. Even where they don't ban it separately, they do often provide harsher penalties where the child prostitute is under a certain age such as 18 or the AOC (if lower then 18). Finely, we should be clear that some states/countries provide harsher penalties related to prostitution involving those above the age of consent but under 18 where such sex would not be a crime if no money or other remuneration had passed hands. --Notcharliechaplin (talk) 18:26, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
 * A number of countries have specific laws dealing with child prostitution separately from that involving adult prostates. Others simply classify it as part of prohibitions against prostitution in general, though maybe with harsher sentences when it involves underage prostitutes.
 * Just as the age of consent varies from state to state and country to country, so does what constitutes child prostitution. Some states and countries have age of consent laws that allow children under the age of 18 to consent to sex (AOC can range from 13-17) but still ban prostitution with anyone under the age of 18 and may even have harsher penalties for crimes relating to prostitution involving minors above the age of consent but under 18.
 * The definition of what constitutes a child either in law or general speech can vary depending on the country or law in question.


 * Agree. On the subject of age, most international conventions & protocols, such as Optional Protocol on the Sale of Children, Child Prostitution and Child Pornography, define a child as being under 18 unless the age of majority is less than that in a particular jurisdiction, so the definition of "child" in this context is influenced by AOM as well as AOC. Would also suggest "Many predators target runaways, sexual assault victims, and children who have been harshly neglected by their biological parents" needs to be changed to include children in care. In recent years there have been a lot of high profile cases involving children in care in the UK.


 * On a separate note, there are calls from some to stop using the term "child prostitution" - for example End use of outdated term ‘child prostitution’, says MP. --John B123 (talk) 21:41, 22 June 2018 (UTC)


 * The lead is meant to summarize the article, per WP:Lead. It is not meant to pack in different aspects regarding the definition of "child" and every legal issue there is regarding the topic. We can briefly note the matter, but the lower article is for in-depth detail. Also, stuff like "calls from some to stop using the term child prostitution" should not be given WP:Undue weight. The WP:Common name is "child prostitution." All we can do is note that some disagree with the term, if it's notable enough for a mention. But that doesn't belong in the lead. I'd prefer to see a draft proposal for the lead to replace the current lead before agreeing to changes. Legitimus, you might also want to weigh in here. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 15:07, 23 June 2018 (UTC)

Clarification on terminology
I made some edits to put this wikipedia page more in line with the Luxembourg Guidelines; the 2016 "Terminology Guidelines for the Protection of Children from Sexual Exploitation and Sexual Abuse" are a set of recommendations adopted by the Interagency Working Group in Luxembourg (dubbed the Luxembourg Guidelines), which seek to establish universally agreed upon meanings for terms related to child exploitation and abuse and to end the use of terms that are harmful and stigmatizing to the child population. The working group included representative from the following organizations: African Committee on the Rights and Welfare of the child; Child Rights Connect; Council of Europe Secretariat; ECPAT; Europol; INHOPE- the International Association of Internet Hotlines; Instituto interamericano del nino, la nina y adolescentes; International Centre for Missing and Exploited Children; International Labour Office; International Telecommunication Union; INTERPOL; Office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights; Plan International; Save the Children International; Special Representative of the UN Secretary General on Violence against Children; United Nations Committee on the Rights of the Child; UN Special Rapporteur on the sale of children, child prostitution and child pornography; and UNICEF.

The Luxembourg Guidelines recommend AGAINST the use of terms such as "child prostitute", "child sex worker", "children/adolescents/young people" engaging in prostitution", "transactional sex", "child sex tourism", "self-victimization", and "kiddie porn". Many of these terms inadvertently legitimize this illegal business by implying the child consented or otherwise agreed to their own prostitution. Substantial research evidence indicates that children do not yet have the capacity to provide informed consent to sexual activities, therefore MOST forms of "child prostitution" are indeed considered illegal sexual exploitation of a child, even if the child seemingly chooses or agrees to engage in prostitution. In place of "child prostitute", the Luxembourg Guidelines recommend using terms that have a generally agreed upon meaning and that are not harmful or stigmatizing such as: "exploitation of children for/in prostitution", "child sexual exploitation", "sexual exploitation of children in the context of travel and tourism", "child victim of sexual exploitation or abuse", and "corruption of children for sexual purposes". It is our responsibility to use these terms ethically and to advocate for the protection of children through the type of language that we use. I would also like to propose changes to the "child sex tourism" and "child pornography" wikipedia pages that use unethical language to discuss these issues of child sexual exploitation. If other wikiers agree, I think the main title of this page should be changed to "Child Sexual Exploitation" and should abandon the term "child prostitution/prostitute" altogether.

96.86.31.193 (talk) 17:12, 9 October 2018 (UTC)


 * See what I stated in the section above. We go by WP:Due weight and WP:Common name in matters like these. There are also those (including the United Nations) who want the term corrective rape to be abandoned, for reasons noted in the Corrective rape article, but we still have the article titled "corrective rape" because it is the common name. Information about organizations or guides opposing the term child prostitution can go in the Child prostitution article, but we shouldn't give WP:Undue weight to the matter. We can try to see which term -- child prostitution or child sexual exploitation -- is used more today. But we should also keep WP:GOOGLEHITS, or rather WP:Search engine test, in mind. Also, child sexual exploitation currently redirects to the Child sexual abuse article. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 17:24, 9 October 2018 (UTC)


 * I strongly oppose changing the title of the article to "Child Sexual Exploitation". The least controversial being that the term also covers "child sex tourism", "child pornography" and a host of other abuses against children not just specifically 'Child prostitution'. Flyer22 Reborn's comments above get my full support.


 * More controversially, I am a great supporter of plain English, and object to our language usage being changed by quangos, academics, sociologists and other groups who generally have their own agendas. To make matters worse there is no consistency. The Council of Europe have already defined prostitution as exploitation (in their statement supporting the Nordic Model), so by their definition the phrases mean the same. If the worry is that '"child prostitution" may suggest consent to some people, then equally, "Child Sexual Exploitation" may be misinterpreted as underage Lolitas leading on older men for financial gain. For clarity, I am totally against exploitation of children, sexually or otherwise, and believe the time and effort put into changing of nomenclature would be far better spent actually tackling the problems. --John B123 (talk) 19:27, 9 October 2018 (UTC)

Protected
I have protected this article do to ongoing issues. It is a GA and consensus should be gotten before major changes. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 15:43, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

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