Talk:Christian Democratic Union of Germany/Archive 1

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I am working on an infobox for the Christlich-Demokratische Union and I need to ask one question. What exactly is the political colour of the CDU? The website is quite centered on orange but the logo is only red (and white). Since red is famously the colour of the [Social Democratic Party of Germany|[SPD]], I was wondering if red was indeed the correct colour to associate the CDU with. Thanks! --Liberlogos 04:13, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

I believe black is the color of the CDU. john k 05:16, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

The colour of the CDU is indeed black. The government coalition of CDU/FDP is called Schwarz-Gelb (black/yellow). In ARD and ZDF exit polls the CDU is coloured black as well. --84.26.109.69 09:44, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

Why is this page at Christian Democratic Union of Germany? That's not its name, and Christian Democratic Union just redirects here, suggesting that there are no other CDUs with articles, and therefore no need to disambiguate. &mdash; Trilobite (Talk) 22:39, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

the party's color is black, although their website prints the logo in red. it's definitly NOT orange at all. -lori 22 March 2006

The party color (since end of 2003) is definitely orange. Black was never the party color, but was used by others for describing the party.--Mevsfotw 11:24, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
 * This has been the case with its predecessor, the Zentrumspartei, too. The black is thought to derive from the colour of priest's dresses, meaning to symbolize catholicism - though caholicism is not thought to be as influential on the CDU's political stance as maybe some decades ago; this is perhaps different regarding the CSU. --84.168.236.49 23:34, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

CDU is black! CSU can also be black, but mostly her colour is blue (because the flag of Bavaria white and blue)! 62.134.72.98 11:20, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

The color is black and red. Read pages 12 and 13 of http://www.ci.cdu.de/download/style-guide.pdf — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.117.79.98  (talk) 12 February 2007)

CDU and the Lutheran Germany
What is the relationship between the Christian Democratic Union and the Lutheran Germany? How popular the party is among the Lutherans? --213.186.241.68 16:29, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * The CDU was founded as a non-confessional party. But the CDU is strong in the south and west of germany (catholic dominated regions) and weak in the protestantic north and east. According to a survey of the University of Berlin (2005) are 51 % of CDU-Members catholics, 33,3 % are protestants.Karsten11 18:31, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
 * CDU is open to ppl from all religions —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.164.218.141 (talk) 13:05, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

the platform
where is the platform of the party? I think that it is more important than a lot of information mentioned in the article.

Platform of any political party is the most important issue, for this platform the people elect it or refuse it. --Hasam 19:23, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

You are quite right to observe the absence of a CDU platform. The CDU is a conservative party in the sense that they are intertwined with and support big business, christian (catholic) values like large families. Before re-unification they were against any little bit that could be interpreted as socialism, because - so the general mood of the time - that could lead to communism. The reality of communism at the time was, of course, Stalinism and that was definitely undesirable. The CDU is the party of big business and vitamin C (connections). Beyond that they really have no platform, no justice issues, or whatever. I remember voting for the CDU in 1983 because I had the idea that there are more wealthy people in the CDU so the corruption which we had experienced from the SPD (Social Democratic Party) and their affiliate Neue Heimat (Housing and real estate arm) should be less.

This was extremely naive and later I lost out through a CDU run scheme (Leuna-Minol), which nullified my rights as an original land owner in the defunct East Germany. Today, these party platforms are no longer all that relevant, because there are a lot of other influences which set parameters. There are EU rules, the human rights charta, international treaties and organisations like the WTO who determine what can and cannot be done, not to forget the rating agencies which influence budgets before they go to parliament.

In my time in Germany, I experienced parties, including the CDU, as channels to train and test people for office. People join their respective youth organisations when they are about 16, and then they work themselves up the ladder through volunteer work and reliability, meaning never say a word out of place, never push an idea that mega money does not like. The network is also used to stifle reporting or action about corruption. Many young people cannot afford to do volunteer work; they have to study, work to pay rent etc, so it is a certain selection that you find in the CDU. It is not surprising that you do not find a CDU platform here, because it really is only a network for vitamin C. 121.209.48.228 (talk) 00:52, 3 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Not only the CDU is a network for vitamin C (connections); the same goes for its sister party with which it forms a common grouping in the German Parliament, the CSU, FDP the main coalition partner of the CDU (which is even more pro-business than CDU/CSU), SPD, Alliance '90/The Greens, and The Left. Most People, however, won't agree that the CDU doesn't have a platform, as the government program 2009-2013 of the CDU (Regierungsprogramm 2009-2013), does show traces of conservative ideologies and principles, which distinguishes it from other parties. Your argument that party platforms are bounded by other institutions setting parameters is true; this can be proven by looking at how government programs (Regierungsprogramme) of the parties have evolved over the years, as the aforementioned institutions setting parameters have increased their influence.
 * Yet a certain selection of people are found in all parties, as the members work themselves up the ladder by volunteer work.

Is the CDU centrist or center-right? There seems to be an editing war going on about that. Please clarify. By the words of the discussion page so far, the CDU seems more right-of-center than any of the parties in the Bundestag. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.148.187.139 (talk) 05:38, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

The answer is not that easy. traditionally the CDU is clearly center-right. Today it has become modern in the CDU to call themself "middle" party. The term "middle" is here simmilar to the english "third way" and also has roots in the same time. For an encyclopedia it would be most appropriated to describe them as a party of the conservative (or right) middle. In american it's supposed to be caleld neo-conservative then, but i'd not not recommand to use this term, but stay with the conservative (or right) middle. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.222.217.160 (talk) 20:55, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I mostly agree. It is ridiculous to call the CDU a "centre" party when there is no serious party to the right of it in Germany, let alone the Bundestag. The CDU is a big party and emcompasses a lot of very different people. While there might be some centrist politicians in the CDU (Heiner Geißler, Horst Köhler), there are also distinct right-wingers to be found (such as Roland Koch, Stefan Mappus or Günther Oettinger) and the majority if its influential politians are centre-right (Angela Merkel, Wolfgang Schäuble, Kristina Schröder, Ronald Pofalla, etc.). "Centre-right" would definitely be more accurate. Most parties in Germany claim the "centre" for themselves (SPD, FDP, even the Greens to some extent). To describe the CDU as centre here is buying in into their PR propaganda. Janfrie1988 (talk) 14:21, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Please also have a look at the articles on Centre-right and Centrism. The definition in the former fits far better. "Parties of the centre-right generally support democratic capitalism, the market economy, limited forms of government regulation, private property rights, and opposition to socialism and communism. Such definitions generally include political parties that base their ideology and policies upon conservatism and economic liberalism." In the article on centrism it even says that the CDU calls itself centre but is really rather right- than left-wing, which is accurate. Janfrie1988 (talk) 00:30, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Here is the Party Manifesto (Grundsatzprogramm). In contradiction to common party platforms, which are made for elections, the manifestos of german parties are constructed for one or mostly two decades and reflect the party's ideology in the best way. Here is the english version of the CDU's manifesto, which was accepted by the CDU national convention in 2007. http://www.kas.de/wf/doc/kas_13533-544-2-30.pdf The CDU refers itself always to three roots: Christian social ethics, Liberalism (which means economic mostly and economic liberalism, but also classical liberal views on state, law and order e.g.) and conservativism. As a catch all party, the CDU has many different wings and politicians of different views. The conservative wing lost many of its influence in the last years, Merkel formed the party more pragmatic. But as you read the manifesto, you might see that there is also a very strong communitarian aspect (subsidiarity, federalism, responsible freedom e.g.). The foreign policy of the Union is marked by pro-europeanism, especially good relations with france, and a strong transatlantic partnership. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.246.54.6 (talk) 23 March 2012)

Ideology
Historically (~1955-1980), when the Union gained about 45-50% in federal elections, it integrated many people from centre to right-wing. It was strict anti-communist, social conservative and national conservative. For example SPD-Chancellor Brandt was diffamed as high treater, cause he searched for asylum in norway due the third reich. They opposed his foreign policy, rejected the GDR to be a state and claimed the Eastern territories (Silesia, East Prussia etc.), lost in WW 2. Those Politicians formed a group in the federal parliament, led by Alfred Dregger, the Steel Helmet Faction (Stahlhelmfraktion). Since 1990, and very from 2000, the party turned much more liberal on social issues and lost it's right-wing conservatives almost totally.

Very important were allways german-french-friendship, transatlanticism and a strong pro-europeanism: CDU-Leaders Merkel, Schäuble and v.d.Leyen speak of the "United States of Europe" as their political goal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.246.58.63 (talk) 11:42, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

Archiving
The talk page seems to be cluttered by questions that have been answered and general comments. Any objection to auto-archiving threads that have been dormant for three months? --Boson (talk) 14:27, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
 * ✅ --Boson (talk) 10:37, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

Developments since 2011 and rise of AfD
The article is outdated. Under Merkel's leadership, since 2011 the CDU moved to the left, taking over SPD and Green positions, like in the 2011 "exit" from nuclear energy following the Fukushima events. In 2015, Merkel adopted the "Refugee welcome" stance of the extreme left Anti-Germans (political current) who prefer any non-German over traditional Germans. As a result, the AfD is on the rise, recently having beaten the CDU in the Mecklenburg-Vorpommern state election, 2016, Merkel's home state.--2001:A62:11AD:5901:34F9:D477:3E88:EAC0 (talk) 00:18, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Controversy
Young people who are non Christians and are rightist, are pushed towards the left, because that name entangles religion with politics - it is a clear proclivity. Metaphysical interpretations and world views are important, even to most of the people they claim "oh, I don't care!" (ok, few really don't actually have a world view, but very few). It is primitive, politically immature to name a party after a religion (including atheism, which is metaphysics and world view but not a religion [as defined academically, because many Christians claim that atheism is a religion, that's why most atheists usually had a Christian background (but these claims aren't academically supported)).
 * I totally agree with you, and I'm sure it would be a nice inclusion in the article, especially if it can be supported by proper sources -- as far as it is relevant to the makeup of the party, of course, or indeed the Centre Right voting block of Germany.Kebman (talk) 14:19, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 01:00, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Ingo Senftleben .jpg

Political Position
The party is not right-wing, it's centre-right. Party leaders call the Union as "Die Mitte", which means 'the centre'. In addition to that Merkel turned the Christian Democratic Union almost to the left side of the political spectrum, which causes a big vacuum on the right side. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.246.62.159  (talk) 13 September 2011)
 * that might be your personal sight, but itsn't right... --129.187.244.19 (talk) 09:42, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

Color
has tried to change the color used in the color template (Template:Christian Democratic Union of Germany/meta/color) to orange. Thus, the question is whether the composition bars on this page should use orange (the official color) or black (the customary color). I've reverted Michaelm because I feel like there should be a discussion before changing this. Any thoughts? Ezhao02 (talk) 13:42, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
 * It should stay black. German news media almost always use black for the CDU's bar in electoral results. Orange is used for the Free Voters, Ecological Democratic Party or Pirate Party. --RJFF (talk) 16:46, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Agree. Let's stick with black, the customary – and most recognised – party colour.--Autospark (talk) 22:08, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I just looked at the German article. It seems like it's not clear what color is really the CDU's official color&mdash;the article mentions red as the color in the party logo and black as the color for the Union parties. Thus, I also checked the source the German Wikipedia cites (the same kind of source we use for the FDP's colors, ), and it doesn't even say orange is an official color! Instead, it mentions the party logo color (red: 235/39/41), and it seems like they are talking about German flag colors (black, red, gold) before that. It seems like the only place where orange is mentioned is to explain what color should be used when the gold is on top of the red and the black. As such, I also think we should leave it as black, since there is no strong basis for orange. Ezhao02 (talk) 13:25, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I checked the CDU's website . It seems like the orange is taken from there or from the party flag. Ezhao02 (talk) 13:28, 10 July 2020 (UTC)