Talk:Christie Brinkley/Archive 1

Images and infobox
Infobox was crapped up, so I fixed it. So were an image from 1999 and a red dress in 2005, so I made them thumbnails, but my opinion is the torso shot in the infobox is enough. 24.209.181.243 (talk) 21:19, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Architect Peter Cook
There is an article about British architect Peter Cook, but I suspect this is not the6 same person who is Brinkley's fourth husband (apparently soon to be fourth ex-husband as well). This is potentially quite confusing. Of course, none of the current news articles on the breakup say anything remotely useful for identification of Brinkley's Cook, other than he is an architect (no age, no nationality, no birth place, no firm name than can be cross-checked, etc.). This Cook may not warrant his own Wikipedia article, but the confusion should be prevented with a note in the other Peter Cook (architect)'s article. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 22:49, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
 * At Peter Cook (disambiguation) there's a one line entry: "# Peter Cook, architect and fourth husband of Christie Brinkley"
 * AndersW (talk) 19:20, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Error
The sentence in the current article doesn't make sense: In December 2006, Brinkley had back surgery in February 2007 after a ski trip in Aspen, Colorado,.[1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.32.40.23 (talk) 16:46, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Image
Can someone get a better-quality image for this one?? the current image is rather poor! --LiverpoolCommander 14:46, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Helicopter accident
Which was the guy she started dating/married after they had a near fatal helicopter accident?

The helicopter crash was in March, 1994, when she was still dating her third husband, Richard Taubman. They got married near the spot of the helicopter crash, but I cannot find many specific details on-line. Simon 14:52, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Painter?
Wasn't she a painter for awhile? I think she painted the cover for Billy joel's River of Dreams album. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Marekind (talk • contribs) 22:29, May 8, 2007

Pop Culture
An episode of the animaniacs features the following dialogue:
 * Dot: I want to be a model! What does Christie Brinkley got that I haven't got?
 * Yakko & Wakko: Billy Joel.
 * Wakko performs a rimshot in a cutaway.

Should this be added? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.178.138.165 (talk • contribs) 08:19, Jun 1, 2007

part 1

 * 1) Los Angeles Times, July 8, 1983.
 * 2) New York Times, September 6, 1983.
 * 3) People, June 15, 1981, March 8, 1982, November 1, 1982.
 * 4) "Christie Brinkley", in Contemporary Authors Online.  Reproduced in Biography Resource Center. Farmington Hills, Mich.: Gale, 2008. http://galenet.galegroup.com/servlet/BioRC.  Document Number: H1000012134

part 2

 * 1) August 16, 2005: Brinkley signed a multi-year deal with CoverGirl to promote the company's new Advanced Radiance line of cosmetics for women over 30. Source: E! Online, , August 17, 2005.
 * 2) July 2006: Brinkley and her husband, architect Peter Cook, separated after almost ten years of marriage. Source: People, July 24, 2006, p. 73.
 * 3) September 2006: Brinkley filed for divorce from her estranged husband, Peter Cook, after ten years of marriage. The couple has two children together. Source: E! Online, , September 15, 2006.
 * 4) "Christie Brinkley Designs Clothes for You," Glamour, 83 (February 1985): 184-187;
 * 5) Sherry Suib Cohen, "Billion Dollar Beauties," Ladies' Home Journal, 105 (August 1988): 136, 158;
 * 6) Gabé Doppelt, ed., "Talking Fashion," Vogue, 181 (August 1991): 309-312;
 * 7) Bruce Newman, "Rich and Famous," Sports Illustrated, 70 (February 1989): 167-169;
 * 8) "Pretty and Pregnant," Harper's Bazaar, no. 3287 (October 1985): 235, 288.
 * 9) "Christie Brinkley," in American Decades. Gale Research, 1998.

part 3
to be supplied AndersW (talk) 19:54, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

No Peter Cook article?
There currently is no current article for the Peter Cook who was Brinkley's ex-husband, but there should be. He is certainly at least as notable as other spouses of famous people, such as Elizabeth Kucinich or Shonda Schilling. If they have pages, so should Cook. http://www.cnn.com/2008/SHOWBIZ/07/14/brinkley.divorce.ap/index.html

M. Frederick (talk) 12:11, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

External link(s) to http://www.errolsawyer.com and http://www.errolsawyerstudio.com
As I am the person who discovered Ms Christie Brinkley and based on her fixation with either disparaging me professionally, eg., her description of me in Model by Michael Gross"...kind of loud and crazy.." which doesn't awaken a positive impression of me personally nor professionally, or editing me from her personal and/or professional history, particularly given the paucity of African-American photographers, I think it would be appropriate to add external links to both my web sites in order to verify once and for all my professional legitimacy. Also see examples of Google Search Results Efsawyer (talk) 03:14, 27 July 2008 (UTC)


 * In addition to a "Discussion" page, Wikipedia should add a "Spam" page, so that lame users partaking in the latter do not eclipse attempts to pursue the former.M. Frederick (talk) 21:25, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Conflict of interest and "discovery" of Brinkley by Mr. Errol Sawyer
I fear there is a conflict of interest (link edited later) in the case of Efsawyer. The section about the supposed discovery of Brinkley by Mr. Errol Sawyer seems dubious to me and was mainly contributed by that user. At least two of the three references originally added (I have no access to the book) did not contain any relevant information and didn't even mention Brinkley's name. Christie Brinkley's is the only article the user has contributed to until now. -Robby.is.on (talk) 16:48, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

(I have no access to the book)Either visit the local Library or BUY THE BOOK BEFORE exhibiting ignorant racial BIAS.Errol Sawyer

It is very disappointing to appreciate the degree of personal prejudice and callous disregard for elementary inquiry exhibited in Mr Robby's allegations.

Has he considered Ms Brinkley's checkered history under the same microscope...

Google Howard Rubenstein PR for possible reasons related to Ms Brinkley's skills as a historical revisionist.

To wit---Why hasn't she mentioned Mike Reinhardt...

It's Public Relations.

A rather sorry example of editing, Mr Robby. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Efsawyer (talk • contribs) 20:26, 25 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Maybe you can explain to me why the ethnicity is "critically important" and where you are seeing racial bias on my part (which is quite an offensive accusation indeed). In any case, if you read conflict of interest you'd probably realise why it might apply here... -Robby.is.on (talk) 20:35, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Mr Robby, kindly provide a concrete example of what you mean by conflict of interest because I fail to understand.

In the mean time, I am preparing more material for you to peruse.

efsawyer —Preceding unsigned comment added by Efsawyer (talk • contribs) 23:11, 25 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Sorry about that, Errol (is it ok if I call you by your first name?), I meant the conflict of interest entry for Wikipedia itself. -Robby.is.on (talk) 00:01, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Robby, I apologize for over reacting to what I perceived as a personal affront because it simply undermines the integrity of my position. Besides, you are simply performing what for many is considered an important yet thankless service. Moreover, following a night of careful reflection, based on the ground rules of this site, until more sources are presented for evaluation,I accept the validity of your fear.

Question, am I allowed to upload jpegs of the cover and several pages of text from Michael Gross's book Model...If you haven't noticed, my keyboard is virtually inoperative....--Efsawyer (talk) 19:42, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Update---I have communicated Robby's fears to the author Michael Gross and given the copyright restrictions on Model, he will post his comments regarding the substance and verity of my contribution shortly at his web Blog.

Following his post, I will establish a link which hopefully will substantiate most if not all of what I contributed.

Let us pray.

efsawyer

I am the author of Model: The Ugly Business of Beautiful Women (Morrow 1995), which was a New York Times bestseller and is still in print fourteen years after intial publication. In the text of the book, both Brinkley and John Casablancas, who became her agent, are quoted to the effect that Sawyer discovered her. Both said those things directly to me. 64.131.160.145 (talk) 16:39, 29 December 2008 (UTC)Michael Gross

Robby does not the following In the late 1970s, she met French photographer Patrick Demarchelier in Paris, who presented her to the Ford model agency in Los Angeles.[5] There she worked for over 30 years.[6 represent a conflict of interest since it serves to undermine the value of Errol Sawyer's impact on Christie Brinkley's career...

I am equally disappointed by the absence of any mention of Errol Sawyer, African-American photographer, etc in Google search results whereas when you Google Errol Sawyer, wiki Christie Brinkley comes up rather prominently.

Hence, double standard.--Efsawyer (talk) 00:46, 1 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, I've been giving this COI issue some thought, and it seems as apparent as can be at this point that the COI exists in that Efsawyer's motivations for editing are solely self-promotional, especially with an edit summary like (most recently, after deleting legitimate info), Edited reference to Patrick Demarchelier as it is a silly attempt to undermine integrity of Errol Sawyer's influence in Brinkley's career and trying to add external links to his own site in some sort of attempt at repayment or spite. As WP:COI states: Where advancing outside interests is more important to an editor than advancing the aims of Wikipedia, that editor stands in a conflict of interest.  And: COI situations are usually revealed when the editor themselves discloses a relationship to the subject that they are editing.  If Efsawyer is the photographer in question, he has disclosed such a relationship with Brinkley and his apparent, and questionable, desire to gain more recognition via Wikipedia is in clear violation of Wiki policy.  If he wants to further his claims, this is not the place.


 * I previously removed some of his self-promotional edits, but now, viewing all his edits in the light of a COI, I question whether any info regarding him should stand in the article. A Google search for "Errol Sawyer" brings up little (mainly copy-and-paste jobs from this article); a Google search for "Errol Sawyer Christie Brinkley" brings up nothing in terms of reliable secondary sources to back up the claim.  The few article citations on Brinkley's past don't mention Sawyer by name, so I question the need for any info specifically regarding him to be included, as it falls under Biographical material that does not significantly add to the clarity or quality of the article.  If reliable articles on Brinkley's life don't need to mention Sawyer by name, this article doesn't - and probably shouldn't, because the point's notability has not been established.  The photographer mentioned by name in relation to Brinkley's discovery, in fact, in the best reference the article has (the nymag.com article) is Demarchelier, who is a notable photog and who Efsawyer unceremoniously wiped (along with the source I mentioned) from the article for dubious reasons.


 * What I'm getting at after this long explanation is that I'm editing the article to reflect the facts put forth in the most legitimate source on Brinkley's bio the article has. Considering that this issue was brought up originally by Robby.is.on, and I thoroughly question it all as well, I feel safe in assuming we make up the existing, current consensus on the issue, and I'll contest any re-inclusion of the info without a reliable source stating that Brinkley being discovered by Sawyer is, in and of itself, notable (as in some cases a model being discovered by a famed fashion photographer is a necessary detail), because it otherwise seems a non-notable tidbit that no sources are concerned with, and Efsawyer is only concerned with for the sake of publicity.    Mbinebri   talk &larr; 19:05, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

January 'o9 clean-up
Hello, all. I just did a bit of clean-up of the article and felt I should mention a few points before anyone sees something and freaks out. First, the term is "supermodel" is technically non-neutral by Wiki standards, so I removed the term, although I left it in the "See also" section. I also removed some info in regards to E. Sawyer. I'm unclear on what the above argument is about, but when an article subject's career section starts with someone else's name, red flags are going to go off. I reoriented that, and deleted the middle paragraph because it's more relevant to parties other than Brinkley. Keep in mind that any details related to someone other than the article's subject should only be used for the purpose of needed context. What firm her divorce lawyer belongs to or Sawyer's race is irrelevant (and therefore unnecessary) in that regard, although I'll be a little lenient. I also question some examples used in the media list. For example, is an appearance on the Rosie O'Donnell show notable enough for inclusion? I would say no; it elaborates in no way on Brinkley's career. Mbinebri (talk) 19:20, 2 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Another clean-up. I still don't like that the personal life section is so large, and the lead section could definitely use an expansion, as it should summarize the points to be made in the article.  I might do it myself a little later, but if someone else wants to give it a try, feel free.    Mbinebri   talk &larr; 19:08, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Earl Sawyer
No need for the "African-American" describer is there? --72.221.70.224 (talk) 13:05, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I have revert this again. Do others want to comment? TU --72.221.70.224 (talk) 16:25, 26 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Supported. Robby.is.on most likely does too, considering he was the first to bring it up.  So it seems all three non-COI editors agree that Sawyer's race is inconsequential to Brinkley's discovery.    Mbinebri   talk &larr; 16:53, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Indeed I do. --Robby.is.on (talk) 23:54, 26 January 2009 (UTC)


 * His race or ethnicity is irrelevant. Otherwise we would have to go through Wikipedia adding Polish-American, Jewish-American, Scotch-German, Italian-Swiss, etc., etc. in front every photographer, book publisher and other professional.Syzygos (talk) 01:24, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Engagement claim
None of the sources cited for the claim that she was engaged to someone who died before they married actually support that claim. Without that key claim being supported, there's no encyclopedic significance to mentioning someone she dated briefly. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 22:09, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I added some new sources on this - granted, only one of them refers to de Brailles as Brinkley's fiance, but it's something in support of the claim. But even if they were never engaged, you can still argue the encyclopedic value of this info based on that de Brailles is notable enough for his own Wiki article, his death was in all likelihood a very traumatic moment in Brinkley's life, it was a news item that did get coverage, Time magazine thinks it's notable enough to point out their relationship in the one-sentence obituary, and the section is called, after all, "Personal life," not "Marriages."    Mbinebri   talk &larr; 13:13, 16 April 2009 (UTC)