Talk:Chronic inflammatory demyelinating polyneuropathy

cidpusa.com
A link to the "CIDPUSA" site ( http://www.cidpusa.org/ ) was added by an IP several revisions back. This is not an information resource like the others, but is mainly a collection of materials advocating the unsupported hypotheses of one doctor. It is also a bit deceptive because at first glance it appears to represent a national association in the United States, but as far as I can tell it actually represents a clinic in Lahore. I don't think it belongs with the other links, but I'm willing to listen with an open mind to arguments in its favour. Badinfinity (talk) 23:40, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Much of the material at the site seems to be just poorly-written text that's housing ads for an e-book. I'd say dump it.  --CliffC (talk) 01:59, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Went ahead and removed the link. If the IP wants to reinstate it I would look for a convincing argument. Badinfinity (talk) 06:38, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

It appears that none of you went further than the first page of the website cidpusa.org to make any type of decisions to remove it from this webpage. None of Dr Khan's hypothesis are unsupported. My nurses found the website informative in a variety of ways for the patient-The E-book is for those who want to use his proven treatments after gaining complete insight and understanding of their condition. In the case of Dr Khan, and to quote my nurse he is "famous" and is world renowned in his field of neurology! Taken from his website: "Dr Khan served in the United States Public Health Service, appointed by the President of the United States. Promoted by the Surgeon General of USA to a Lt. Commander in the USPS. Served in the United States Civil Service as a Research Fellow at the National Institutes of Health, Bethesda. Residency Neurology at University of Arizona, Royal Postgraduate Medical School London and Institute of Neurology Queens Square London." Had you gone further than a cursory look at the contact page and viewed each page on the INFO of CIDP, The PATHOLOGY, diagnosis, treatment, etc etc you would have seen not only detailed information for the person who suffers from this condition, but diagrams and explanations to anatomy and a variety of tests to isolate a CIDP diagnosis. If you had actually read the website you would have found how supported the information IS, and that the doctor who began this webpage and the CIDP clinic in Lahore utilizes the skill of doctor's from all over the world, as well as their own research--if you clicked on the link to Mass General you would have seen diagrams of anatomy explaining a skin biopsy. RLS, RSD, Lupus, Fibromylagia are all discussed auto-immune diseases, that often the CIDP patient is tested for before final diagnosis--that because they are in fact auto-immune conditions they should be treated as such and often are not. The website does contain references to back up the Doctor's information some of which comes from Harvard Medical School and Mass.General Hospital. In fact it was Dr Khan's website that helped me to further understand better what I have, better preparing me to the use of IVig than any other weblink that was on the CIDP Wiki page. The link to CIDP on the GBS-CIDP website was terrible and the informaiton provided was poor in the extreme. Even this webpage should be listed as requiring cleanup since there is important findings and information about CIDP that are omitted from the webpage. This webpage doesn't even cover the fact that CIDP is often misdiagnosed as ALS and can cause death. The polyneuropathy alone means that it affects the peripheral as well as the central nervous system, not that it "can" have central neverous system involvement, this just one example of how poorly this web page has been edited in recent months. It is an irony of sorts to see that Dr Khan's information has been used in the writing of this page. Allowing your ignorance and what appears as bigotry to prevail on the neutrality of Wikipedia is a disgrace! There is so much information without even purchasing the Doctor's E-book! How dare you arbitrarily decide to remove an incredibly knowledgable website, as well as hope for many other CIDP sufferers, from Wiki, without doing an investigative and exhuastive search of the website in question. I am returning the website back to this page, as well as sending a note to Wiki staff about how you did not do any real research at all in reference to and prior to the removal of an amazing resource to others like me.-brattysoul


 * Those editors may not have read that website, but I did -- at length -- and your personal testimony aside, the information on the site is remarkably low quality and much of it purely speculative or even factually inaccurate.
 * I laughed out loud when I read your statement about "sending a note to Wiki staff" to tattle on us. But perhaps you do not understand the concept of an all-volunteer anyone-can-edit website?  Let me suggest that you start reading at About.  WhatamIdoing (talk) 04:53, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

really, poorly written? Then explain how I know more about my condition and IVig? I certainly did NOT get that from ANY of the other links there-the nih talks about it but there is NOTHING to relate to it--which is what cidpusa website does include-in fact it actually has diagrams of the axon as well as other informative meidcal information. Besides the fact that this Doctor is world renowned in his fight with autoimmune disease--my nurse sat here and toldme he is FAMOUS for his work! That alone means something, muchmore than your abuse of the system. Just because you dont want the Muslim website that includes prayer on here does NOT mean that website lacks info. Tattle? yes indeed, because even if you do volunteer to edit, that doesnt give you the right to omit a website that DOES give info about the condition--which includes diagrams, stories from sufferers and new treatments for the disease--do YOU have it? I am sure you dont. That website gives DETAIL that none others do. Yes I can "tattle" as you call it and you can lose your volunteer editing which is nothing more than a priviledge,something you seem to have forgotten. Obviously you want to keep information from sufferers, and as typical on most websites that allow "volunteers" to do work on their websites, you want to be in control and have some so called power over others. There is nothing worse than abuse! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Brattysoul (talk • contribs) 16:31, 1 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Is it a Muslim website? I hadn't noticed.  I did notice the bits about curing every major disease with some, um, novel treatment approaches.
 * Good luck with your efforts to get me blocked. Perhaps you'd like to try winning some friends and influencing some people over at the main page for external links?  You could alternately try a talk page that some physicians read.  Either way, I do not expect that you'll find anyone that loves this website as much as you do.  WhatamIdoing (talk) 05:59, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

It was stated that a convincing argument needed to be posted to keep the web page--I gave them-even if YOU do not appreciate it, thats too bad. I do not care if "others love the website", they more than likely do not have this condition, which means they haven't a clue as to what sufferers really need. CIDPUSA in fact gives information beyond what is in this article--how can it be a featured article if you play this editing game to restrict other information for others to look at? The doctor is in fact a respected and well known doctor in the treatment of autoimmune diseases. The problem is, it is useless to get you to understand what he is trying to give people in the way of info. He has stories of people who have had IVig treatment-which is explained in a better way than ANY of the other external links provided! It even tells you the COST of IVig! It really is apparent that you did not thouroughly read everything on that site--you allowed yourself to be misled by the link about his e-book, and instead of clicking onto all the embedded links, you scanned over them assumming they were just to the e-book! I know this is true by the way you have replied here. If you had actually ignored the e-book links and READ everything you would have found out that in recent years they have even used Stem Cell replacement for an individual with this disease. This is a dramatic treatment and isn't even included in this page about the disease. The facts show that the website provides detailed information which includes detailed diagrams with text that explains different therapies-his e-book is if people would like to try other more holistic therapies, and no one is obligated to purchase this e-book in order to get the pertinent information about CIDP! Here is where you really need to step it up and remove this mental block about the e-book to further investigate what he has provided to people with CIDP--You have become biased on a website that requires an unbiased opinion. There's the challenge to you-try and remove that mental block and biased opinion and steer past the holistic therapy e-book to really see what's been provided to sufferers with CIDP.

Spam again
I removed the cidpusa.org spam again. I thought I'd outline some of the most outrageous claims that it makes, just in case anyone still believed that it was a worthwhile resource. Note that most of these are on the front page of the website:


 * "Autoimmune diseases are the number one disease process and killer on Planet Earth." (Not supported by any research.  In fact, Khan states on the website that it's actually #3 according to reliable sources.)


 * "A two week specific anti-inflammatory treatment can stop" [all autoimmune diseases]. (ALL of them? For ALL patients?)


 * "Arthritis, stiffness, pain mental disorders, heart problems, skin diseases, facial palsy, asthma, hearing disorders, multiple sclerosis are all autoimmune." "P.T.S.D. (post traumatic stress disorder), depression, anxiety, O.C.D (obsessive compulsive disorder), heart disease, bowel, kidney, breathing and skin disorders, memory loss & epilepsy are all immune mediated. Sudden onset of hearing loss, visual disorders & infertility are all immune mediated." (Wow, that's a long list... and it includes a remarkable proportion of diseases that are generally not considered to be autoimmune, or that, like infertility, are only very rarely immune-mediated.  I suppose these are all up for the two-week cure listed above?)


 * "Do not think that hot flashes are due to hormone deficiency. Treatment of any disease by thinking that immune dysfunction is the cause." (Not supported by any research.)


 * "Alzheimers is a autoimmune disease, fully reversible" and "We are the first clinic in the world to offer complete reversal and prevention of Alzheimers." (Not supported by ANY research. Nobody has ever reversed or even stopped Alzheimer's.  [Delayed somewhat, yes.  Stopped, no.]  This is really unconscionable preying on a desperate population.)


 * "By pass heart surgery with antibiotic protocol from cidpusa, no stents, no angioplasty, no surgery." (Really?  Not supported by any research.)
 * "With nanotechnology we can treat any infectious disease anywhere. We have the nano particle to cure multiple infectious diseases" and "Nanotech reverses all diseases & makes old people feel like young: Number 1 in ant ageing treatments." (Really?  ALL diseases?  IMO consumer-grade "nanotechnology" is what "electricity" was a century ago:  a tool used by quacks to part fools from their money.)


 * "If a disease has good & bad days, or it is progressive, consider it to be a autoimmune disorder. If the disease started after pregnancy, surgery, car accidents, toxic exposure or living close to a dump, its [sic] autoimmune." (Always? So pregnancy, surgery, car accidents, and so forth are effective preventive measures for all non-immune diseases?)

I'd like to expand on this one:

Relapsing-remitting diseases -- those in which you might feel poorly today, but might feel better tomorrow, with no predictable pattern -- are the favorites of medically inclined charlatans throughout history. It's a classic con man job: Work your way into the confidence of the sufferer. Claim credit for any good thing that happens, and respond to any bad thing by saying that it's proof that the patient still needs the con man to provide care for you. It is remarkably effective, especially when you add in the placebo effect that's been noticed again and again in proper randomized controlled trials: The mere fact of enrolling in a study, or embarking on a new treatment, or meeting a practitioner that seems to care about you will improve your mood and increase your sense of control. Improved mood = less depression, less pain, less absorption with small problems.

Consider some of the "stories" he reports on this website: "Bras causing Breast Cancer" and "Autoimmune reaction kills teenager in breast surgery" (if you click the link, he says that it was actually a genetically determined metabolic disease, but he doesn't seem to care about accuracy). Does this sound like responsible medicine to you? How about his assertion that vasectomies cause kidney stones?

As for it being a non-commercial website ("the only thing we sell is medical information that will cure, no advertising on this site", to which we ask what, "Our Nanoparticle treatment units are for sale. Get your treatment at home" is supposed to mean), consider headlines and statements like "Dont [sic] wait in a NHS clinic we do a 24 hr evaluation over the internet for medical problems", "See our Services we provide internet based remote medical consultations", and "For a full consultation from overseas a $ 50 consult fees is charged. Rupees 500 for first 15 minute consultation for local population." If they're really not selling anything, then why is the price listed?

Finally, we need to consider whether this website is based on modern science. The answer is no. Despite his harping on being a physician, the website plainly states that it is based on a sacred religious text: "Quran was sent to Earth as a guide for the straight path and a guide for Shifa (healing). Quran contains extensive details about diet, supplements and  advice on curing disease..... In this [eBook]....Dr Khan has also included the most common diseases that effect humanity and  provided simple antibiotic cures for these difficult to treat common diseases. These diseases include acne, Alzheimer's, strokes, heart disease and all forms of arthritis....Hidden cures from the Quran have been brought to the open..."

I strongly oppose the inclusion of any link to this quack in this article. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:49, 2 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I would like to point out that Diabetes IS an autoimmune condition. In MOST countries it is in the top 5 of killer diseases.


 * Are you aware of how IVig is administered and how it works to cure or place in remission autoimmune disorders? A continuous 2 week therapy of IVig is aggressive enough that it could put every autoimmune condition into remission-my own neurologist believes he can cure me of CIDP with aggressive IVig of a oncew a week plan--imagine 14 straight treatments and what they COULD do in a possible cure all--this is the type of aggressive treatment the Lahore doctor is speaking about.


 * Every disease you mentioned IS immune related. You may want to do more in depth research about neuro diseases that are immune conditions and what can occur in the body when you have just ONE type of immune condition-you have breathing problems, hearing loss, heart diseases(you may want to read the symptoms of CIDP alone on this-also Parkinsons disease, etc), visual disorders?...um yea you can go blind with diabetes-an IMMUNE CONDITION. Many bowel conditions ARE immune related. In my own personal experience, my IVig treatment has been successful in curing THAT paticular issue. If you have even ONE immune condition you can expect to experience many other medical issues that are intertwined with the neuro/auto immune disorders. Arthritis IS immune related and an inflammatory condition as is CIDP. Epilepsy has just been proven to show that it IS an immune condition!!


 * Immune conditions can indeed cause hot flashes in women, especially if they are diabetic. A hot "flash" is used in generalities by many women not understanding that it can be immune related and not hormonal. Diabetes causes "hot flashes" and IS an immune condition. *nods* yes, I get "hot flashes" and as of two weeks ago, it was NOT hormone related. It is immune related.


 * Depending on your heart condition, yes you can bypass heart surgery for immune therapies and/or holisitc treatments. It just depends on what immune condition you have. Many neurological immune conditions can cause arythmia(sp) and do not require heart surgery.


 * Oh and your opinion shows that you are not neutral in the matter of the article or the doctor in Lahore. Just because you have no access to their research clearly doesn't mean there is none. "nanotechnology" has been used in many areas of research in diseases and is still in its infancy-because you arent working with it doesnt mean it doesnt work and does not make it the tool of quacks. My foot doctor uses the type of nano electricity you are poorly describing, AND health insurance will pay for someone to do the same treatment at HOME, just like the Lahore doctor is saying he has available.


 * "If a disease has good & bad days, or it is progressive, consider it to be a autoimmune disorder. If the disease started after pregnancy, surgery, car accidents, toxic exposure or living close to a dump, its [sic] autoimmune." (Always? So pregnancy, surgery, car accidents, and so forth are effective preventive measures for all non-immune diseases?)


 * Yes ALWAYS. EVERY neurological immune condition can be associated with evedry item named above. CIDP has been shown to manifest after an injury, accident, surgery or accident. Instead of the body healing it turns on its self. Do you have a clue what CIDP does? or Parkinson's? These are only TWO examples of serious neurological immune conditions that in fact do exactly everything you named above. Diabetes as well. It is being shown that neurological immune conditions can be traced back to some form of trauma.


 * These conditions are in their research infancy and closing your mine to someone else in another country that isnt the USA is all about YOUR opinion and ignorance and nothing else. It has been shown that controlled studies are very difficult to conduct with most immune conditions. And I dont know about you, but I wouldnt want to subject myself to a "controlled" study and end up with placebos.


 * I never said that he wasn't really selling anything--I said that it wasn't necessary to buy anything to gain information from the website in regards to CIDP, including information on research at Harvard Med aas well as diagrams and complete info regarding IVig treatment for CIDP. Guess what? He was SPOT ON about the 10k cost of IVig treatment.


 * You oppose the website link because the doctor mentions the Quran.
 * "...the most common diseases that effect humanity and provided simple antibiotic cures for these difficult to treat common diseases. These diseases include acne, Alzheimer's, strokes, heart disease and all forms of arthritis..." Guess what? Strokes are caused by diabetes which in turn is an autoimmune condition-AND you get many infections when diabetic, and guess what? you take antibiotics-neuro immune diseases can cause certain types of heart disease, and some of them are treated with antibiotics, and acne IS also treated with antibiotics.


 * The truth is the website is poorly written and you're such a purist about the english language, you would prefer to omit a website that isnt written in the style that YOU find acceptable than to include it here. You're also peeved about that Quran thing. You definitely have issues about someone who is Muslim and believes in a God that can guide people to better health. I did mention that one of my nurses knew about the doctor and his treatments for auto immune conditions. He's respected for his theories, and if you actually read his background you would have seen it is pretty respectable and he is hardly the quack you want to make him out to be.


 * I suggest you read more about auto-immune conditions and NOT the wikipedia site for information. Your ignorance about these type of illnesses is astounding, but not half as astounding as your obvious bigotry towards the doctor. You may be surprised how many auto immune conditions there really are and how many are neurological in their presentation. Brattysoul (talk) 06:57, 6 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Only Type 1 diabetes, which is the least common form, is an autoimmune disease. Type 2 diabetes, the most common form, is a non-immune-mediated metabolic disorder.
 * Strokes are not solely caused by diabetes -- even in people that have Type 1 diabetes.


 * If you are involved in a car accident as a baby, it does not mean that every time you get sick or injured for the rest of your life, that it's an autoimmune disease -- even though nearly every case of the common cold or other infection that baby will get in its life will technically be "after" the car wreck. The website is just filled with this sort of nonsense.
 * I am, like every other editor on this page, opposed to the inclusion of this link because it does not meet Wikipedia's guidelines for external links. I oppose it as a violation of WP:ELNO #2 "Any site that misleads the reader by use of factually inaccurate material or unverifiable research" and #4 "Links mainly intended to promote a website".  The fact that it is poorly written is a further problem, but I would oppose this link even if it were beautifully designed and a sterling example of good writing.


 * BTW, your specious complaint at WP:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring was rejected. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:57, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Sorry but since I am also editor on this page, try not to generalize "every other editor on this page" as agreeing with you. You are against the Doctor because he is Muslim--when I mentioned that in August, you claimed you had no idea it was a "Muslim" website. Well you attacked the doctor's spiritualness within the Quran towards healing, and that is a Muslim book. Since you are on Wiki, I would expect that you do know the Quran is a Muslim book. You have attacked the poor English, and what you claim are nothing factual on his website-I pointed out that he has Harvard research backing him up on the website--you ignored that info-you tried to attack different aspects of his treatments without even knowing that many doctor's do use what Dr Khan uses. I KNOW because I DID do the research into treatment. You have been attacking the website from your own OPINIONSand of course you did use "IMO" here--which of course shows you hardly are using a NPOV--you punctuated things here in such a way to cause a rivalry and anger me where I am no longer using an NPOV in my debate--whereas I began that way. You clearly are rejecting what you do not know or completely understand because you do not have enough information--I sat here with my own nurse who knows of this doctor herself regarding his treatments and knowledge of neuro immune diseases--just because you do not know about his work to your satisfaction, certainly doesn't mean his work is rejected out of hand. I also pointed out that it was cidpusa that showed me more information about my condition and the variety of treatment available than ANY of the websites that have been allowed to be included here.*fini* Brattysoul (talk) 04:01, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, I said, "every single editor on the talk page except yourself thinks that a link to www.cidpusa.org is a clear violation of Wikipedia's rules for external links.", which is factually accurate: You are the only editor that supports its inclusion.


 * I didn't know that the doctor was Muslim until after you pointed it out on this page. If you read the conversation in order, you will see that you mentioned his religion before I said anything about the non-scientific nature of religion.


 * This link violates Wikipedia's policies about external links. Specifically, it violates WP:ELNO #2 "Any site that misleads the reader by use of factually inaccurate material or unverifiable research" and #4 "Links mainly intended to promote a website".  The fact that you have decided to base your personal medical treatment on this person's book does not make the link comply with these policies.  WhatamIdoing (talk) 01:13, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

i have CIDP and i have to say, that website is the biggest load of bullshit ever written. 81.106.148.147 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 02:28, 8 December 2009 (UTC).

RE:Central Involvement in CIDP Section
"Central, brain and spinal, involvement in CIDP is just being started to be studied"

it is not just being started to be studied--in fact according th nih.org there is information to studies/research being done regarding the central nervous system that date to 2005 and before that date. this is 2010. it hasnt just started but has been going on all over the world according the to info posted about the research.

when i have time(HA!) i will post the info formo nih.org here so that we can see what has been found related to CIDP. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.98.227.180 (talk) 02:16, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Speaking of "CNS involvement", the lead sentence of this article appears to need some editing. I think most neurologists would disagree that CIDP "often" has CNS involvement. I don`t know why such a controversial (and frankly, unsupported by research) statement is in the lead (?!). Variances and exceptions aside, CIDP, like Guillain-Barre, is clearly identified in the literature as a peripheral nerve disorder, and so this is a confusing statement by Wikipedia, in the summary sentence. Jack B108 (talk) 18:57, 1 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Indeed, a leading CIDP researcher, R. Hughes, wrote a summary article about CIDP in 2003. There (Table 1), he gave the summary of the diagnostic criteria for diagnosing the disease. "Absence of CNS involvement" was a key tenet of diagnosis. Source: Richard A. C. Hughes, Drugs 2003; 63 (3): 275-287. Citing Ad Hoc Subcommittee of the American Academy of Neurology AIDS Task Force. Research criteria for the diagnosis of chronic inflammatory demyelinating polyradiculoneuropathy (CIDP). Neurology 1991; 41: 617-8. Jack B108 (talk) 19:20, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Name change
It's come to my attention that the name for this disease has changed from Chronic Inflammatory Demyelinating Polyneuropathy to Chronic Inflammatory Demyelinating Polyradiculoneuropathy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1.122.215.39 (talk) 03:03, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Rituximab is listed as a cytotoxic chemotherapy drug
This isn't strictly true. It's a biological, monoclonal antibody which promotes the phagocytosis of B cells. Whilst they have the same functional effect (destruction of the cell), cytotoxic cells promote apoptosis (cellular suicide). Ideally, the article should be rewritten to reflect this. Davidxwaldock (talk) 21:12, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * I'm not sure how to visit but the * text in the source does not generate the correct external link. it looks auto generated, but out of my skill level. -HZ9R98A231QXI7 (talk) 19:17, 13 September 2019 (UTC)